breezing
Well-Known Member
Use a world class stallion on a maiden mare or wait to see what she produces from an economy mating ?
Woud you?
- Thread starter breezing
- Start date
the watcher
Well-Known Member
It would depend entirely on her breeding and build and how she is performing. For a good mare I would consider it. My view is that unless you are looking at some of the top racing TBs, whichever stallion you use the stud fee is not generally the biggest outlay in producing a foal from conception to point of sale or training, so you might as well use the best you can afford.
sallyf
Well-Known Member
If the mare warranted a world class stallion then yes i would use one on a maiden mare.
But i wouldnt pay out for a world class stallion unless i thought the mare was good enough herself ability wise.
If the mare was an average all round sort and i wanted to breed from her i would find the stallion that complimented her conformationally and try and breed a nice correct useful horse.
In my opnion to many people breed average mares to expensive "world class " stallions without taking basic stuff like suitability ,comformation and temperament into consideration.
That said i know nothing about your mare
But i wouldnt pay out for a world class stallion unless i thought the mare was good enough herself ability wise.
If the mare was an average all round sort and i wanted to breed from her i would find the stallion that complimented her conformationally and try and breed a nice correct useful horse.
In my opnion to many people breed average mares to expensive "world class " stallions without taking basic stuff like suitability ,comformation and temperament into consideration.
That said i know nothing about your mare
jaypeebee
Well-Known Member
I think you should breed your mare to the stallion who most compliments her. It shouldnt have anything to do with the stud fee cost but more finding the best match you possibly can. If you are planning to sell the offspring then a bigger named stallion would be more prudent but if you are intending keeping the offspring then names dont matter so much. Generally if you look well enough you will find many compatible stallions to suit your mare varying in price accordingly.
KarynK
Well-Known Member
I used the one of the very best in the world in appaloosa reining for my maiden mare, not because he was the best but becuase he had the performance, conformation and pedigree combination that best suited her.
I have a real cracker as a result but could with another mare achieve the result with a less well known stallion that suited her better.
You need to be looking at the mare in a critical manner in order that you can pick the best match. sometimes if you are breeding to sell you can pick the most popular sire but from your short list of complimentaries.
I have a real cracker as a result but could with another mare achieve the result with a less well known stallion that suited her better.
You need to be looking at the mare in a critical manner in order that you can pick the best match. sometimes if you are breeding to sell you can pick the most popular sire but from your short list of complimentaries.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
breezing,
PROVIDING that I had enough confidence in the mare, then DEFINITELY!
Alec.
Navalgem
Well-Known Member
Define world class?
I used Coriano Z on an unproven maiden mare........ 1st premium foal and I am 100% happy with him, time will tell if my faith in her will be rewarded. I wont regret it regardless, he's lovely and very nice natured.
I used Coriano Z on an unproven maiden mare........ 1st premium foal and I am 100% happy with him, time will tell if my faith in her will be rewarded. I wont regret it regardless, he's lovely and very nice natured.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
navalgem,
I'm assuming that the question , "Define world class"....... was aimed at me. Were I to give you a flippant answer, I'd say....... Expensive, and Foreign.
A sensible answer? I "think" that it would be a stallion who had produced those which competed at an International standard. I'm coming to the eventual conclusion, that the more I learn, then the less that I know.
I would hope that I'm right, when I say that there must surely be some British owned, and probably bred stallions, which can be considered of World Class standard.
Alec.
I'm assuming that the question , "Define world class"....... was aimed at me. Were I to give you a flippant answer, I'd say....... Expensive, and Foreign.
A sensible answer? I "think" that it would be a stallion who had produced those which competed at an International standard. I'm coming to the eventual conclusion, that the more I learn, then the less that I know.
I would hope that I'm right, when I say that there must surely be some British owned, and probably bred stallions, which can be considered of World Class standard.
Alec.
Navalgem
Well-Known Member
Alec - was not aimed at anyone in paticular, just a question, I think people's opinions vary and what one person will define as world class another will not.
I wholeheartedly agree with your second paragraph. The last statement in paticular!
As for British owned and bred (again - define british bred
lol) 'world class' stallions, there were none (by the strict british bred definition of at least 1 generation ancestors bred in this country) that were what I was looking for when I put my maiden mare in foal - Although there were a few young but yet unproven stallions - therefore not 'world class' (by your definition) that I was and still am watching with interest (foreign breeding but born here), and several british owned imported youngsters that I will watch with interest. I have used a former international showjumper but he had no youngsters with comp records when I used him despite him being 22 but I had seen a very talented 3yo (british owned but again he was imported) however he was proven in the sport.
So, that said, I used a foreign stallion that was proven in the sport, had youngsters competing at top level in the sport on my maiden mare. I like the mare, I liked her breeding, I liked her talent albeit unproven and I think it was worth it.
Some will agree with what I did, others will say it was crazy. Time will tell and I'm sure a bit of luck or lack thereof will play it's part.
I wholeheartedly agree with your second paragraph. The last statement in paticular!
As for British owned and bred (again - define british bred
So, that said, I used a foreign stallion that was proven in the sport, had youngsters competing at top level in the sport on my maiden mare. I like the mare, I liked her breeding, I liked her talent albeit unproven and I think it was worth it.
Some will agree with what I did, others will say it was crazy. Time will tell and I'm sure a bit of luck or lack thereof will play it's part.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
naval(?!),
thank you for your Pm, and it's all accepted.
If I'm really honest, I suppose that by British, I actually mean British owned. There can be no question, in my mind, but that British stallion owners need the support of all.
Are there actually any stallions in this country, which don't have, or haven't been influenced by foreign horses? I would be more than surprised if there were.
Whether a stallion came from France, Holland, Germany, or Timbuktu wouldn't matter in the slightest to me. That a horse was what I wanted, AND was resident and owned in Britain, should, and hopefully would, be a serious influence.
I suspect that those, who have the valuable mares, will pay scant regard to this humble offering, as they will find the right stallion, no matter where he is, and who can really blame them?
High time, I suspect, that British Breeding stands up on its own two back feet! Perhaps the Stallion Expo will assist with that!
Alec.
thank you for your Pm, and it's all accepted.
If I'm really honest, I suppose that by British, I actually mean British owned. There can be no question, in my mind, but that British stallion owners need the support of all.
Are there actually any stallions in this country, which don't have, or haven't been influenced by foreign horses? I would be more than surprised if there were.
Whether a stallion came from France, Holland, Germany, or Timbuktu wouldn't matter in the slightest to me. That a horse was what I wanted, AND was resident and owned in Britain, should, and hopefully would, be a serious influence.
I suspect that those, who have the valuable mares, will pay scant regard to this humble offering, as they will find the right stallion, no matter where he is, and who can really blame them?
High time, I suspect, that British Breeding stands up on its own two back feet! Perhaps the Stallion Expo will assist with that!
Alec.
Navalgem
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
naval(?!),
thank you for your Pm, and it's all accepted.
[/ QUOTE ]
Navalgem - my first horse - a TB by Handsome Sailor, out of Gem of Gold
[ QUOTE ]
Are there actually any stallions in this country, which don't have, or haven't been influenced by foreign horses? I would be more than surprised if there were.
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed! I doubt there is
[ QUOTE ]
Whether a stallion came from France, Holland, Germany, or Timbuktu wouldn't matter in the slightest to me. That a horse was what I wanted, AND was resident and owned in Britain, should, and hopefully would, be a serious influence.
I suspect that those, who have the valuable mares, will pay scant regard to this humble offering, as they will find the right stallion, no matter where he is, and who can really blame them?
High time, I suspect, that British Breeding stands up on its own two back feet! Perhaps the Stallion Expo will assist with that!
Alec.
[/ QUOTE ]
I do support British Breeding and took my mare and foal to the BEF futurity, however until recently I haven't liked many of the UK showjumping stallions or - wouldn't pay more for the same thing that I could get abroad - sad but true - I can't afford to burn my money in order to buy semen from a British Owner.
Also being a small 'hobby' breeder - I have 2 mares. I need to use the best I can and hope that eventually my foal's results will speak for themselves. Hence using a foreign and wholly proven stallion. "You're more likely to get a good one from two good ones" on that philosophy (assuming of course you are happy to use an unproven mare that you feel has talent and breeding and is 'a good one').
Having said that - I do now like a handful of the young British Owned stallions and will watch both them and their progeny with interest. I DO hope Britain can produce horses of the quality and quantity that the continent does and that British studbooks can one day rival the foreign ones.
However until people stop using joe bloggs's unliscenced stallion down the road for £50 this may not happen for some time, perhaps it is just around my area but it is fairly commonplace sadly. I would rather someone use the best stallion they could on their mare, taking into account cost and suitability of the match and possibly produce a better horse, than use any old thing and end up with rubbish. That said I appreciate that two good ones won't always make a good one and two unknowns can produce something spectacular - but it has to be accepted this is an exception and not the norm.
naval(?!),
thank you for your Pm, and it's all accepted.
[/ QUOTE ]
Navalgem - my first horse - a TB by Handsome Sailor, out of Gem of Gold
[ QUOTE ]
Are there actually any stallions in this country, which don't have, or haven't been influenced by foreign horses? I would be more than surprised if there were.
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed! I doubt there is
[ QUOTE ]
Whether a stallion came from France, Holland, Germany, or Timbuktu wouldn't matter in the slightest to me. That a horse was what I wanted, AND was resident and owned in Britain, should, and hopefully would, be a serious influence.
I suspect that those, who have the valuable mares, will pay scant regard to this humble offering, as they will find the right stallion, no matter where he is, and who can really blame them?
High time, I suspect, that British Breeding stands up on its own two back feet! Perhaps the Stallion Expo will assist with that!
Alec.
[/ QUOTE ]
I do support British Breeding and took my mare and foal to the BEF futurity, however until recently I haven't liked many of the UK showjumping stallions or - wouldn't pay more for the same thing that I could get abroad - sad but true - I can't afford to burn my money in order to buy semen from a British Owner.
Also being a small 'hobby' breeder - I have 2 mares. I need to use the best I can and hope that eventually my foal's results will speak for themselves. Hence using a foreign and wholly proven stallion. "You're more likely to get a good one from two good ones" on that philosophy (assuming of course you are happy to use an unproven mare that you feel has talent and breeding and is 'a good one').
Having said that - I do now like a handful of the young British Owned stallions and will watch both them and their progeny with interest. I DO hope Britain can produce horses of the quality and quantity that the continent does and that British studbooks can one day rival the foreign ones.
However until people stop using joe bloggs's unliscenced stallion down the road for £50 this may not happen for some time, perhaps it is just around my area but it is fairly commonplace sadly. I would rather someone use the best stallion they could on their mare, taking into account cost and suitability of the match and possibly produce a better horse, than use any old thing and end up with rubbish. That said I appreciate that two good ones won't always make a good one and two unknowns can produce something spectacular - but it has to be accepted this is an exception and not the norm.
lollypops
Member
unfortunatly to many hobby breeders breed from ordinary un-graded mares, it dose"nt matter how brilliant the stallion is , or how much you pay for the privledge off using a so called worldclass stallion, if you breed from a normal mare you will probably get a average foal, the mare is far more important than the stallion.
do your research and please do not breed for breeding sake, take your time to find a stallion that will improve your mares faults, temperament and rideability every time.
do your research and please do not breed for breeding sake, take your time to find a stallion that will improve your mares faults, temperament and rideability every time.