would a IDx suit my needs ?

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leggs

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hi,
I'm a 43yr old who's had horses (stabled at home) for over 30years now. Had every horse i've ever owned from foal, and they have only left me to be cremated at old age. 3 yrs ago I lost my first soulmate Mist (arab) at 29yrs, colic...and recently I lost my other soulmate Gardy 26 also colic.I am devastated, I can't imagine having a similar bond with other horses. I still have 3 horses, 2 miniatures and 1 anglo-arab Badjaraz. Although I love her to bits, she has never really been "my" horse, she's had hard footsteps to fill, which is not entirely fair, I know!

The problem is, the two little ones do not fill the requirements for Badjaraz, she has some companionship from them, but those two are so into eachother, nothing can come between them. So basically she is on her own. So....I will have to buy a companion for her.

Thing to consider is that Badjaraz, though quite dominant, is not a very confident horse, she will need a mate that can give her that confidence like Gardy Always did.

some years ago i went to the UK and rode IDx horses which was wonderful, exactly my type of horse, unfearful, surefooted...they never went out of my mind.

But how do I go about purchasing one ? I don't want to end up with a dissapointment because any animal that makes it to my home will not leave. It is a purchase for life. Obviously I will have to go to UK or Ireland, but what are the boobytraps ?
 
Frankly I don't think you can say any breed is like this or like that, particularly if they are cross breeds. I have a TB/ID and he is a complete sweetie, forward and giving, but my friend has another TB/ID and he is bolshie and lazy. I've come across TBs that are a bit loopy and others that are laid back. All horses are individuals and like us respond to how we are handled in our formative years as well as having a genetic makeup that predisposes us to certain traits Why not just go out and find something you like and gell with?
 
5 months ago I bought my first horse as an adult (I am nearly 50) and she is an ID x ISH. She is on the lazy side but has the sweetest temperament, is willing and able, steady and sure footed, and suits me down to the ground. I lost a lot of confidence last year but I know she will look after me. We are learning together and I wouldn't be without her now (despite her lack of interest in schooling - not my favourite thing either). I didn't deliberately go out looking for an ID but I would have another in a heart beat if needs be. She is kind, honest and very very steady - but as the poster above has said, all horses have different personalities and I guess you can never guarantee what you are getting. Having said that I have been told several times that Irish Draught horses typically have a gentle and steady way about them.
I can't advise you where to start looking - although the ID Register is probably a good place to start - but if that's what you are looking for, good luck in your search. :)
 
I have an ID and he can be sharper than my TB when the mood takes him! He is also not very brave and needs a lot of confidence from the rider. He can be rude and bolshy to handle but is improving.
On the plus side he has a very trainable attitude and lovely paces for a big horse. X
 
@Oldy-48:you're right, not all horses are the stereotype of their breed and a lot has to do with their bringing up, and in my view, if I compare the average young life of a horse in NL to that of the UK. You guys do a lot more with your horses at young age, little bit of hacking with some fences to jump ...that sort of country side is hard to find here in this overpopulated country. I have the luck that I own a property next to endless woodlands (forrest or however you guys call it) and I have eh...don't know how hectares compare to acres but 2 soccerfields :-) of land for them to graze. I think around 60% of the horses here are boxed up most of the day and are Lucky to get out a few hours + riding.
Which means the average horse in UK has seen more of "life" than in NL. I like the sturdyness of the IDx i've seen, not so into the fragile type's of horse. I'm also quite tall and not the "twiggy" type, more Pam Anderson without the boobs, Gardy was 184cm (i think 17.3hh?) gelders horse ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelderland_horse ) crossed with a French TB. The problem is the gene pool for Gelderland horses is very very small, which puts me off. I could write a medical textbook on the problems i've had with Gardy over 26 years.

@Louf; sounds like you've found a wonderful mare !

@Pilib; when you give him that confidence, does he respond ? I don't know what bolshy means !

What i'm looking for maybe hard to find, and I don't want to compare horses, i know that isn't fair but Gardy for instance was quite highly strung, but never so we would get in serious trouble. For instance when a hot airballoon decided to land in a field close to our house (I was on the way back with her) she watched it land at 50meters distance, with an attitude of "what the hell do you think you're doing without asking permission from me !" she could open any door or fence, also the other horse's boxes and create wild west situations with me chasing after them in the dark. Guess i'm looking for an intelligent horse with a sense of humor?!
 
Bolshy means "opinionated"!

I like a good IDx. I have had a few over the years, and although some of them can be more highly strung than others, in general they're fairly sensible, kind horses underneath, and would suit your needs from what you've said.

JanetGeorge on here breeds Irish horses, it may be worth contacting her?
 
Honey08 said:
Bolshy means "opinionated"!

I like a good IDx. I have had a few over the years, and although some of them can be more highly strung than others, in general they're fairly sensible, kind horses underneath, and would suit your needs from what you've said.

JanetGeorge on here breeds Irish horses, it may be worth contacting her?
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opinionated souds familliar !
I will try contact JanetGeorge, thanks!
 
I have found any draughts I've dealt with all to be very quiet and in general take life at their own pace.. Not sure how much you want to spend but these guys http://www.horsesinireland.com produce the most amazing horses and have sold to all over Europe and the states.. Have seen their horses at shows.. And all have manners to burn and are well hunted I don't know them personally but worth a look they'll certainly let you have a good trial from what I've heard an days hunting if your up for it!
 
@Spins, I will contact them too! the, for me, perfect horse has no price (they say they have no color either but I love grey). And a days hunting...well i'm up for it, not sure if my muscles are, but i'll sure know the day after !
 
Draughts good: quiet, sensible, steady, a bit heavier so good to cross with finer breeds like thoroughbreds.

Draughts bad: stubborn, obstinate, lazy, too clever!

I have owned two TB/ID crosses. One had the best traits from both breeds and was athletic, kind, steady, and lit up the show field. The other had the worst and was spooky, silly, stubborn and extremely wilful. They can be wonderful but make sure, when you try a draught cross, that you ask it to do everything you want it to, and give it the opportunity to say 'no'! And if it says 'no', walk away because it will probably keep saying 'no'!
 
Actually, if you go onto the Breeding section of the forum there is a thread about King of Diamond horses with a few links showing some of his lines, and I think Janet George has one or two of hers on ther from a few years ago. It will give you an idea of types and different crosses..
 
@Flicker; i'd go for the first one.

just for me, on a foreign forum, know what most abreviations are like TB etc. but... when I say;

ID = Irish Draught
IDx = irish draught x TB right ? or does this mean ID x something else ?
reason I ask is because in NL X means TB cross, purebred TB = XX

just want to make sure I ask for the things I really mean :=)

I don't want a pure ID, but one that is crossed with thoroughbred lines.

How does it work with passports, i have seen adds with the term "greenbook" does this mean they have a full pedigree on paper ? or just a passport in which all medicines and chip are logged ?
 
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IDx means. ID crossed with anything.
IDxTB is nowadays known as an Irish Sport Horse or ISH, but it can vary greatly in type depending on what amount of TB & ID there is. There can also be other things mixed in, I have two ISH, one is half and half, the other has 1/4 Holstein (nice mix!)...

Green Irish passports mean there is a known parentage for a few generations, blue means they know some and there is other mixtures in there (the horses I have have green and blue passports). While Irish passports cover anything.
 
mmmm... so the kind of passport would also reflect the price ? (breeding) and he blue passports are really to get in line with the chipping obligation ?

Do you in the UK also have a medical addition to the passport in which any vet would have to register the administration of for instance bute ?

are they given out by vets ? with photo ?
 
I'm not sure an ISH has to have any ID in the breeding it could be a connemara x TB and some with ID in the breeding might only have a little We had an ISH who was by Ricardo Z (WB) out of a TBx ID mare, so only a quarter ID. My current horse is 3/4Tb 1/4 ID but bred in England by a well known stallion who is 1/2 ID 1/2 TB and I must admit he has the most lovely temperament!
Honey08 said:
IDx means. ID crossed with anything.
IDxTB is nowadays known as an Irish Sport Horse or ISH, but it can vary greatly in type depending on what amount of TB & ID there is. There can also be other things mixed in, I have two ISH, one is half and half, the other has 1/4 Holstein (nice mix!)...

Green Irish passports mean there is a known parentage for a few generations, blue means they know some and there is other mixtures in there (the horses I have have green and blue passports). While Irish passports cover anything.
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Sorry, the i pad changed what I wrote. There are green, blue and white Irish passports, the white ones are just bog standard passports.. The green ones are perhaps the most sought after, however my gelding with blue passport is still very nicely bred, he just has some Holstein in there (cavalier Royale was sent to Ireland to inject a bit of length of stride and different quality to the ISH and is a nice line in the ISH).

Yes passports have a medical bit at the back, but vets don't always fill it in. The injection history will be there too. Passports have diagrams in them of the horse and markings, which are filled in by vets.
 
Hi Leggs, I come from a similar situation in that my last horse was a Friesian purchased at 4 months in Friesland. When she died 2 years ago, I wanted a horse to ride who would also keep my ex-racehorse company as also have them at home but who would also look after me.

I bought an Irish Sports Horse who is 3/4 ID and 1/4 TB with a green passport and who was 4 when I bought him - but definitely an old head on young shoulders. He is a gem of a horse with the nicest temperament and has given me tons of confidence without being a plod.

I would definitely contact JanetGeorge for advice as there are quite a lot of Irish horses for sale over here and her advice would be very useful to you.
 
Ricardo Z...as in Zangersheide ? that (owner of the studbook) is a dutch guy who basically got no foot on the ground in NL because he had different views on breeding horses than KWPN (rightfully so in my opinion, he wanted to breed horses that were not only good for a short while, or pretty, but also sound in the long run- he was the first to actually do research into the herritance of ocd and arthritis, even naming his stallions that were not free of this condition) He sadly moved to Belgium with his studbook, but with great success

but Oldie, you are seriously complicating things for my blonde mind....x connemara ? in NL we only know them as pony;s (quite rare to find one too)
 
I absolutely adore my IDxTB it's the best of both worlds :-) can be sharp and quick as a TB but sensible, kind and steady. Wouldn't buy anything else
 
It is not a question of "would an IDx suit my needs " but COULD and IDx suit my needs. They can be wonderful horses,but they do vary an extraordinary amount . Janet george ,as mentioned earlier ,is a mine of info on these horses. Personally ,I think that there is an IDx out there to suit everybody,from four star eventer to happy hacker, the trick is not to mix the two up. My previous horse was a "Cavalier" horse , Big ,Black , Bold and rather a danger to all around him. My current horse is as gentle as a lamb, loves everybody , and oddly enough ,even the horses seem to love him,yet he is as crazy as a squirrel. Far too intelligent by half!And very very sharp. Yet I also have ridden so many other IDx s that were placid and docile. Holiday in Ireland called for here, and remember the golden rule! The right horse finds you ,you dont find him.
 
Honey08 said:
Sorry, the i pad changed what I wrote. There are green, blue and white Irish passports, the white ones are just bog standard passports.. The green ones are perhaps the most sought after, however my gelding with blue passport is still very nicely bred, he just has some Holstein in there (cavalier Royale was sent to Ireland to inject a bit of length of stride and different quality to the ISH and is a nice line in the ISH).

Yes passports have a medical bit at the back, but vets don't always fill it in. The injection history will be there too. Passports have diagrams in them of the horse and markings, which are filled in by vets.
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so if i got this right;
white > horse is registered but does not reflect any ancestors, but horse is chipped ?
blue > idem white but has non-registered parents ? (like a stallion down the road who covered a mare )
green> full paper with confirmed parents ?
 
another thing, what is common practice in Uk for as I think you call it "vetting" in NL we have 2 types, the first is checking the confirmation etc, lungs, heart, teeth. Secondly the X rays and bloodsamples.

In Nl it is cumtomary to do vetting on costs of the buyer, but if negative result the seller of the horse pays the bill.
 
Vetting over here can be two stage (basic legs, eyes, heart etc checks) or five stage (more in depth and bloods taken), then you can pay extra for x rays. The buyer pays whatever the results.
 
Yes, he stands at the Kedray Stud in Tipperary, Ireland. he's currently the world's number 1 sire of eventers (based on eventing pts, I believe). he's also sired lots of successful SJs and show horses. Ours had a lovely temperament, fab movement, was scopey over a fence and bold XC. altogether a nice horse, got sold when daughter went to university. He had a bit too much bone to go all the way eventing as I doubt he'd have made the time advanced but he was a lovely safe rideable horse with loads of talent and a nice chap to have around.
yes connemaras are native Irish ponies but they can be quite big and crossed with a TB they can make lovely riding horses with great temperaments, good movement and often a great jump too.but reading your previous posts I think you are looking for something quite big?
leggs said:
Ricardo Z...as in Zangersheide ? that (owner of the studbook) is a dutch guy who basically got no foot on the ground in NL because he had different views on breeding horses than KWPN (rightfully so in my opinion, he wanted to breed horses that were not only good for a short while, or pretty, but also sound in the long run- he was the first to actually do research into the herritance of ocd and arthritis, even naming his stallions that were not free of this condition) He sadly moved to Belgium with his studbook, but with great success

but Oldie, you are seriously complicating things for my blonde mind....x connemara ? in NL we only know them as pony;s (quite rare to find one too)
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Very broadly speaking, an ID stallion will throw a heavier stamp and a TB stallion a lighter, even though in theory they have the same blood split. I have had a lot of ISH, all with green passports (which means 3 generations of registered approved breeding). The one characteristic they all have is that not one has looked or born any resemblance to the next, and this includes horses with similar breeding! Personally I would avoid a well hunted young Irish horse as sadly have known a LOT who have had issues later, all of which the vets were looking at a horse that did too much too young. I am a big fan of ISH though as due to their breeding programme, it really does help take some of the guesswork out when looking at different lines. My current one is out of French Buffet (TB stallion, was registered with then KWPN studbook for years as well). Mine is now 7 but seems to share a lot of characteristics with his siblings so now would be easy to research.
 
somehow I didn't see the replies to this thread earlier.
@oldie48; yes, i'm looking for a big horse, i'm not fat (but not skinny either :-) ) , but quite tall at 1.82cm's. The horse I just lost (Gardy) was 1.84cm (is that 18.1hh ?) and my arab that I had from childhood was 1.52cm (15.1hh?) but so much of a horse I couldn't have handled her if she had been any bigger !

I'm not a novice, but getting on now + owning my own company cannot risk a broken leg or worse on a silly horse. Temperament = ok, don't like numbed out horses, and....mare person ! definately !

@Luci; very interesting ! I would guess a foal would take over the temperament mostly from the mother as wel. And as you say lighter stamp...food for thought!

At this time I don't have the time to "bomb proof" a horse from scratch, there has to be some basics that will not give me too much work especially with my other mare not having those genes. I must say she is improving a whole lot with one-on-one time with me now in the forrest but it would be a whole lot easier if I had another horse that I could take along that has been there, done that.

Looking at adds from Ireland I see some horrific pictures of men in jeans and unsuitable riding gear "showing" the horses in pictures, jumping anything, gates, water, the horses probably from pure surprise of what is happening to them....do anything. The prices also seem the half of what UK IDx's cost.
 
I had a lovely Id x TB on loan yrs ago! she was fast, fun but also a massive confidence giver!

that said, I have 2x connie x tbs, one 29 one 4, I got the youngster as I loved everything about my oldie, however, they couldn't be any different if they tired! I still love the bones of the 4yr old! hes actually lovelier than I could have ever dreamed of but its has provide to me that I wont look at a certain breed again, but their personalities are totally different! even their build is quite different!
 
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