Would an increase in the Horsemeat Industry reduce welfare?

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radicalthunder

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Hi,

I am doing my dissertation on the research question: would an increase on the UK horsemeat industry reduce the amount of welfare cases in the UK?

I do understand that it is a very controversial topic, but it would be amazing if you could my survey please.

The idea comes from getting a financial reward for getting rid of horses before they become a welfare case, for example, if money becomes a problem, selling them into the horsemeat industry.

Yes, I personally, would sell my horse into the horsemeat industry, in a way - its like, I've paid so much for him to survive, he may as well help me out too !!! I do love him, am obsessed by him and he's my hero, but But I would definitely prefer that than to see him suffering and getting old or thin because he cannot eat anymore in the field. I would prefer the memories of seeing him healthy and well instead of ill.

So taking all this into consideration, please could you do my survey.

Thank you
X

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7FRY75T
 
What does this survey aim to tell you?

Because I answered no I definitely would not send my horses to meat, nor would I eat horse meat. But that is a personal choice and does not reflect my views on the bigger picture.

However I would support horses being sent for meat and would support changes to the law if it could improve welfare. So my answers to your survey may skew whatever it is you are trying to do?!

BTW you also need a NA answer for the last question
 
Hmm
Comments.
If injured I would want the horse dispatched as quickly as possible, a vet would probably be in attendance. I would not want it to travel except in exceptional circumstances.
I don't really care about what happens to the body after death, but I do care before death. The travel needs to be a short distance, ad not in a dirty wagon.
The slaughter house: this is the problem, how can I be assured that the horses are handled in a quiet way and it all goes smoothly, the handlers need to be very experienced to to deal with horses, but slaughtermen are often low paid and this is a dead end job, hardly a career option for the animal welfare oriented.
Where I live there are no dedicated horse slaughter facilities, all the vets recommend signing off the passport so it can't be used for human consumption.
I am sure I have eaten [well did not eat] horsemeat in an indian restaurant, it was sold as "lamb". This indicates that there is an illegal trade in horsemeat and probably rustled sheep. Where trade is illegal there is no control over welfare or medicaments
When I had to book a shooting, it was £400 to include removal.

I am happy if anyone else wants to eat horsemeat, personally I would not buy it or eat it, there are plenty of nice tasty meats out there.
I don't think you can alter the market size in the UK for horsemeat, it is easier to supply countries who do have a tradition of eating horsemeat, just move the meat in a wagon not live shipping. Live shipping is ghastly.
So really you need to address two things
1] number of slaughter houses ......... accessibility
2] methods of handling, and welfare assurance for the caring horse owner
 
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Considering I wouldn't eat any meat other than fish, mainly because of the transportation and the cruel treatment at abattoirs, I would not send any horse for meat.
 
I don't think us eating horses would make any difference to horse welfare .
Things as bad if not worse in counties where they eat horse .
More meat trade might lead to stricter restrictions on the drugs able to be used on horses this would be very bad for sport and pleasure horses .
If there was a meat trade people would breed for it .
There would still be loads of poorly conformed badly cared for horses being minimally cared for having a terrible quality of life .
I will always PTS my horses at home nothing ever ( apart catastrophic injury away from home ) will ever make me do otherwise .
 
Goldenstar said:
I don't think us eating horses would make any difference to horse welfare .
Things as bad if not worse in counties where they eat horse .
More meat trade might lead to stricter restrictions on the drugs able to be used on horses this would be very bad for sport and pleasure horses .
If there was a meat trade people would breed for it .
There would still be loads of poorly conformed badly cared for horses being minimally cared for having a terrible quality of life .
I will always PTS my horses at home nothing ever ( apart catastrophic injury away from home ) will ever make me do otherwise .
Click to expand...

I think I agree with goldenstar, even if there were a slaughterhouse just up the road and it was as good as possible, I think I would probably choose to have the horse shot on the spot by an experienced person wearing clean clothes and with clean hands, horses are sensitive to blood.
Even for me the cost would be a factor, if I got £500 for the horse but had to pay £500 for shooting, that might make me re-consider, but my primary thought is welfare and stress, and there is no way I could be assured unless I personally inspected the premised when it was operating, there is no way this could happen unless there are live videos online.
A bit of a long post, but just exploring some thought processes.
 
Goldenstar said:
I don't think us eating horses would make any difference to horse welfare .
Things as bad if not worse in counties where they eat horse .
More meat trade might lead to stricter restrictions on the drugs able to be used on horses this would be very bad for sport and pleasure horses .
If there was a meat trade people would breed for it .
There would still be loads of poorly conformed badly cared for horses being minimally cared for having a terrible quality of life .
I will always PTS my horses at home nothing ever ( apart catastrophic injury away from home ) will ever make me do otherwise .
Click to expand...

^^^^ Exactly what Goldenstar has said.
 
Goldenstar said:
I don't think us eating horses would make any difference to horse welfare .
Things as bad if not worse in counties where they eat horse .
More meat trade might lead to stricter restrictions on the drugs able to be used on horses this would be very bad for sport and pleasure horses .
If there was a meat trade people would breed for it .
There would still be loads of poorly conformed badly cared for horses being minimally cared for having a terrible quality of life .
I will always PTS my horses at home nothing ever ( apart catastrophic injury away from home ) will ever make me do otherwise .
Click to expand...

This ...^^^ 100%
 
Goldenstar said:
I don't think us eating horses would make any difference to horse welfare .
Things as bad if not worse in counties where they eat horse .
More meat trade might lead to stricter restrictions on the drugs able to be used on horses this would be very bad for sport and pleasure horses .
If there was a meat trade people would breed for it .
There would still be loads of poorly conformed badly cared for horses being minimally cared for having a terrible quality of life .
I will always PTS my horses at home nothing ever ( apart catastrophic injury away from home ) will ever make me do otherwise .
Click to expand...

Thank you for your comments - very useful for research and areas to research.

Since starting my diss research, I have found some answers to your statements.

More meat trade might lead to stricter restrictions on the drugs able to be used on horses this would be very bad for sport and pleasure horses .Pharmaceuticals have not had the need to investigate 'human friendly' drugs in the UK especially, but if there was an increase in the HM industry - this could spark investigations.
There would still be loads of poorly conformed badly cared for horses being minimally cared for having a terrible quality of life . - would a financial reward not excite people to get rid of horses before they get to that stage?
If there was a meat trade people would breed for it . - this could increase the amount of money in the UK, the security and traceability of the horses and also the need to find better drugs for them.

I still am grateful for your comments. Thank you
 
Have completed survey. My main concern would be with transporting and treatment of horse at slaughterhouse. Don't think I could live with myself for putting a horse under that stress at the end of its life.
 
Bonkers2 said:
I think I agree with goldenstar, even if there were a slaughterhouse just up the road and it was as good as possible, I think I would probably choose to have the horse shot on the spot by an experienced person wearing clean clothes and with clean hands, horses are sensitive to blood.
Even for me the cost would be a factor, if I got £500 for the horse but had to pay £500 for shooting, that might make me re-consider, but my primary thought is welfare and stress, and there is no way I could be assured unless I personally inspected the premised when it was operating, there is no way this could happen unless there are live videos online.
A bit of a long post, but just exploring some thought processes.
Click to expand...

Totally agree - my horses are and will always be put down at home, in the lowest stress environment as possible (unless there had been a catastrophic accident away from home where it would be done there and then). I use an extremely experienced and caring fallen stock company but if a particular horse needed sedating prior to that, the vet would be in attendance as well. I am lucky enough that cost is not a consideration for me, although even if it was at a particular time I would go without absolutely anything and if necessary would incur debt to ensure the best end possible (having said that, the cost through the fallen stock company is approx £150 which is not a lot of money in the circumstances). I personally would never use a slaughterhouse, or have a horse transported anywhere to be put down. The recent slaughterhouse abuses, particularly the unbelievably appalling treatment of sheep in North Yorkshire have only solidified my view of this. IMHO every horse deserves a dignified, humane and non-stressful end administered by the most experienced professional possible; if they are not lucky enough to pass away naturally which is unfortunately not that common an occurrence.
 
Hurricanelady said:
Totally agree - my horses are and will always be put down at home, in the lowest stress environment as possible (unless there had been a catastrophic accident away from home where it would be done there and then). I use an extremely experienced and caring fallen stock company but if a particular horse needed sedating prior to that, the vet would be in attendance as well. I am lucky enough that cost is not a consideration for me, although even if it was at a particular time I would go without absolutely anything and if necessary would incur debt to ensure the best end possible (having said that, the cost through the fallen stock company is approx £150 which is not a lot of money in the circumstances). I personally would never use a slaughterhouse, or have a horse transported anywhere to be put down. The recent slaughterhouse abuses, particularly the unbelievably appalling treatment of sheep in North Yorkshire have only solidified my view of this. IMHO every horse deserves a dignified, humane and non-stressful end administered by the most experienced professional possible; if they are not lucky enough to pass away naturally which is unfortunately not that common an occurrence.
Click to expand...

Thank you
 
touchstone said:
^^^^ Exactly what Goldenstar has said.
Click to expand...

Janovich said:
This ...^^^ 100%
Click to expand...

Chococat said:
Have completed survey. My main concern would be with transporting and treatment of horse at slaughterhouse. Don't think I could live with myself for putting a horse under that stress at the end of its life.
Click to expand...

Wagtail said:
Considering I wouldn't eat any meat other than fish, mainly because of the transportation and the cruel treatment at abattoirs, I would not send any horse for meat.
Click to expand...

Bonkers2 said:
I think I agree with goldenstar, even if there were a slaughterhouse just up the road and it was as good as possible, I think I would probably choose to have the horse shot on the spot by an experienced person wearing clean clothes and with clean hands, horses are sensitive to blood.
Even for me the cost would be a factor, if I got £500 for the horse but had to pay £500 for shooting, that might make me re-consider, but my primary thought is welfare and stress, and there is no way I could be assured unless I personally inspected the premised when it was operating, there is no way this could happen unless there are live videos online.
A bit of a long post, but just exploring some thought processes.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your comments and agreement.
 
radicalthunder said:
would a financial reward not excite people to get rid of horses before they get to that stage?
Click to expand...

I think it would rather make horses far more disposable and increase breeding.

I find it impossible to believe that someone who 'loves' their horse would let it be loaded on a wagon and sent to an abattoir under any circumstances, even for money. The people that would do this would tend to be the uncaring people who let horses get into a terrible state in the first place. They would then be able to sell their tired, maltreated, old or knackered horse and replace it with a brand new one to pound into the ground/under feed/beat [insert choice of abuse], knowing that when they no longer want them they can get a few hundred quid for them, no problem. Said equine would also no doubt be denied any drugs for pain relief etc. in case that made them exempt from going for meat.

So in summary, I think your idea is a terrible one which would not decrease the number of welfare cases. Sorry.
 
Wagtail said:
I think it would rather make horses far more disposable and increase breeding.

I find it impossible to believe that someone who 'loves' their horse would let it be loaded on a wagon and sent to an abattoir under any circumstances, even for money. would you take it there yourself?The people that would do this would tend to be the uncaring people who let horses get into a terrible state in the first place. They would then be able to sell their tired, maltreated, old or knackered horse and replace it with a brand new one to pound into the ground/under feed/beat [insert choice of abuse], knowing that when they no longer want them they can get a few hundred quid for them, no problem. Said equine would also no doubt be denied any drugs for pain relief etc. in case that made them exempt from going for meat.

So in summary, I think your idea is a terrible one which would not decrease the number of welfare cases. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your comments, this is interesting.

If the slaughterhouse itself was improved, and made to a better state, would you consider it ? If where the carcass goes afterwards doesn't matter - then if it was to go into the horsemeat industry, it would not be such a problem.

Am I right in thinking that it is the method that it gets to the meat industry that is the underlying problem?

Sorry, just trying to do investigation. This could lead to better upkeep/investigation of slaughterhouses, for a better economical value to the UK.
 
I think all those who care about their horses would not want to send theirs to slaughter.

Those who don't care, and keep churning out foals year after year, would have more incentive to keep doing so as there would be a definite "market" for those unwanted, poorly bred foals.

I can't see how this idea would help at all if you think people should be paid for sending horses to slaughter.
 
radicalthunder said:
Thank you for your comments, this is interesting.

If the slaughterhouse itself was improved, and made to a better state, would you consider it ? If where the carcass goes afterwards doesn't matter - then if it was to go into the horsemeat industry, it would not be such a problem.

Am I right in thinking that it is the method that it gets to the meat industry that is the underlying problem?

Sorry, just trying to do investigation. This could lead to better upkeep/investigation of slaughterhouses, for a better economical value to the UK.
Click to expand...

There is a massive problem with the transportation and slaughter of farmed meat animals as it is. I am not against eating meat but this is why I gave it up, so why would I even consider sending a horse through that system? This needs sorting. Shorter journeys, less crowded containers, cameras in all abattoirs which are routinely examined by outside agencies. That is one problem. Why would any loving owner wish to send their horse there?

The second problem is that it will undoubtedly lead to MORE horses being bred, and therefore MORE suffering of equines, not less.
 
I would never send a horse to slaughter but I am aware that closing this option can cause more welfare cases as in USA and horses have ended up travelling horrendous distances to Mexican or Canadian abbatoirs instead. Its the welfare around transport to slaughter which I find the worst thing.
 
Wagtail said:
There is a massive problem with the transportation and slaughter of farmed meat animals as it is. I am not against eating meat but this is why I gave it up, so why would I even consider sending a horse through that system? This needs sorting. Shorter journeys, less crowded containers, cameras in all abattoirs which are routinely examined by outside agencies. That is one problem. Why would any loving owner wish to send their horse there?

The second problem is that it will undoubtedly lead to MORE horses being bred, and therefore MORE suffering of equines, not less.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much.

Is the media of how an abattoir is run the reason for your view (no offence intended)
 
radicalthunder said:
Thank you very much.

Is the media of how an abattoir is run the reason for your view (no offence intended)
Click to expand...

Who needs the media when you can see how crowded those lorries are with your own eyes? Also, there has been actual video footage of animals being maltreated. And those are just the ones where people have managed to get undercover footage. Anyone with any intelligence will know this is just the tip of the iceberg.

The manager of the restaurant where my son works goes with his own pigs and kills them himself because he doesn't trust anyone else to do it right. I think that speaks volumes.

And what sort of person actually wants to work in an abattoir? Animal lovers? Hardly. Obviously there will be some who do a really good job, but there will also be some people who are attracted to it for very sinister reasons.
 
Wagtail said:
Who needs the media when you can see how crowded those lorries are with your own eyes? Also, there has been actual video footage of animals being maltreated. And those are just the ones where people have managed to get undercover footage. Anyone with any intelligence will know this is just the tip of the iceberg. valid. do you think that better regulations would reduce this? and regular, unplanned checks?

The manager of the restaurant where my son works goes with his own pigs and kills them himself because he doesn't trust anyone else to do it right. I think that speaks volumes. My parents drive their own animals to the abattoirs and think the same thing, but there are a lot of abattoirs that are decent, clean and well looked after

And what sort of person actually wants to work in an abattoir? Animal lovers? Hardly. Obviously there will be some who do a really good job, but there will also be some people who are attracted to it for very sinister reasons.
Click to expand...

It's hard to judge people's choices to work at the abattoirs, they do create food for us to eat after all. Or other jobs that are considered to be sadistic.
 
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