would anyone mind looking at this barefoot feet

[paddi22]

Would really appreciate any knowledgeable folk here giving their feedback!

- Horse given to us in November. Old owner said it was lame a few days a month around shoeing time. They had her on gel pads and heel support, done every 4-5 weeks.
- Horse is ex sj'er who was having rotational falls over fences with rider and was very weak and nappy.
- we took shoes off and but in bog field for 3 months break
- came in then and hacked happily in boots and pads
- got trimmed and had another break in field
- back in work now but feels very uncomfortable in going forward. is in boots and pads
- farrier is due now and has cancelled a few times, so horse is weeks overdue to be done

would love to see what people see in the hooves, as I am hoping to keep barefoot and want to learn more
these are the fonts

 

[paddi22]

and back feet

 

[ester]

The fronts were/are pretty splatted aren’t they, am suspecting the big change in angle was when shoes came off? What are the frogs like clean? Just wondering if they’re not 100% comfortable given the splattedness they’re likely doing more than they are totally ready for even with pads?

the deviation on the hind is interesting and I would query an issue higher up that’s responding to

 

[SEL]

I get a similar deviation on the hind with a horse who has a spur on her hock. She's had arthramid but doesn't land straight on that leg. We've tried leaving the deviation and trimming it and leaving it definitely makes her worse.

Those front feet are incredibly flat. The new growth looks to be coming through at a better angle but I'm not sure I'd be riding on those feet just yet (I know plenty would). Its very wet at the moment so could the change in behaviour be soggy frogs and not wanting to take the weight on the back of that foot?

The reluctance could be the length in those toes with your farrier being over due. My navicular one can be fine to 5 weeks and then get very tetchy very quickly if we go past that.

 

[paddi22]

thanks so much, great to get the info from people who know their stuff! it fascinating seeing the angles change and stuff, that makes sense about the soggy ground making it worse, as she seemed happy before the break when weather was drier

 

[SEL]

thanks so much, great to get the info from people who know their stuff! it fascinating seeing the angles change and stuff, that makes sense about the soggy ground making it worse, as she seemed happy before the break when weather was drier

My big mare is literally rock crunching in summer when her frog is solid and a grumpy princess when its wet outside. She's normally in boots for her walk outs but having had to recover them in the boggy bit of the bridleway, whilst trying to hang onto her and not face plant into smelly mud she is having to go out barefoot. Her ladyship is underwhelmed and walks up the short bit of tarmac like she's walking over hot coals - and she's never been shod

 

[stangs]

*Disclaimer: not one of the knowledgeable folk on here, but am trying to train my eye. Hopefully someone will come tell me off if I'm spreading misinformation.*

Owner of a thrushy horse so I'm seeing thrush everywhere, but I'm particularly seeing thrush in her feet. To me, it looks like there's thrush underneath the callused bits and pieces of the frog - definitely there are dead flaps that could use removal. Thrush would make sense given the weather, and would explain the reluctance to go forward.

Otherwise, seeing lots of event lines at the top of the hoof but that makes sense given her recent life change. Heel bulbs quite close together in the fores - makes sense given the history, unless they've gotten worse since she came to you, suggesting that she's not using the back of the foot. What's her landing like if you record her moving?

Also, on the last photo of the hinds, it looks to me like the bars are tall on the left of the foot but not on the right, but that might just be an illusion.

 

[ester]

I agree I do get better results getting rid of frog flaps for treatment.

what you are seeing bar wise stangs is a result of the distortion of that hoof a capsule/likely supporting deviation. They tend to change shape/be thicker I’ll see if I can find a pic of franks

 

[ester]

he had a spavin on this side, other hind normal

 

[Red-1]

They are interesting feet to be sure. In the main, I like the improvement in angles in the more recent shots. I do think the frogs are harbouring bacteria though. I would scrub daily after trimming off anything ragged.

I am perplexed by this photo though...

screenshot-2023-03-28-at-13-50-19-png.110165 (510×566) (horseandhound.co.uk)

It almost looks, on my screen, as though this frog is inverted as opposed to the foot? Is that just the picture or is that how it is? If it is, I have never seen one like that.

I am also curious as to how the coronets feel.

 

[ester]

To me the triangular bit of frog is sitting on top of the rest and is likely about to shed

 

[paddi22]

heres some more of the fronts a bit cleaner so the frog is clearer

 

[paddi22]

also, do i need to be worried about these holes here?

 

[ycbm]

That looks like an old abscess exit wound but a big one. With the flat feet and that then metabolic issues would worry me.

Performance wise I wouldn't be expecting much until the angle changes have grown out, but it's a great start that they have changed so much.
.

 

[ycbm]

ETA that heel with the hole is probably going to break off at some point but it should regrow fine.

 

[stangs]

I agree I do get better results getting rid of frog flaps for treatment.

what you are seeing bar wise stangs is a result of the distortion of that hoof a capsule/likely supporting deviation. They tend to change shape/be thicker I’ll see if I can find a pic of franks

View attachment 110180

he had a spavin on this side, other hind normal

Thank you, that makes sense.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Is your farrier on board with barefoot rehabilitation? Or is he/she expecting to shoe when the feet have improved? There is a long way to go to get these feet to somewhere near normal, but it must be done slowly to avoid lameness. As the new growth comes in, the internal structure of the hoof will also start to remodel, and you may see lameness and abscesses as a result. Don't lose heart!
There is loads of information out there from Pete Ramey, Jaime Jackson, Dr Robert Bowker, Rockley Farm etc., etc.. Maybe ask a barefoot trimmer or podiatrist to take a look if you feel your farrier does not inspire confidence.

 

[paddi22]

luckily farrier is great! she was very encouraging about getting her barefoot and she's helped transition my other s in the past to barefoot, so luckily she's very supportive! The aim would be to keep barefoot. the horse previously had top-class farriers and even with remedial shoes and gel pads she wasn't coping, so think barefoot is her only option. thanks for those links, haven't heard of two of them so will have a look! and thanks everyone else for your views, it's very educational listening to people's feedback.

 

[Maxidoodle]

Have a look on Amazon for Jamie Jackson’s books, they’re very good and will help you in certain. Pete Ramey is brilliant and definitely recommend Rockley farm too.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Gosh they are… interesting… feet, aren’t they!

Do you have her on anything with biotin in it? We use a forage plus hoof and skin balancer which I really rate.

It will be so interesting to see how she progresses.

 

[paddi22]

old owners got her the year before and had her on biotin the whole time as her hooves were so bad when they got her. i kept her on it, and she gets a good balancer and low sugar/starch feed. she had a lot of gut issues and was ulcery when she arrived. she is putting on weight now and looks much better, but her hooves will be the big issue to get sorted. she had been doing long hacks happily in the boots, but shes really gone backwards since the last break. she has a lot of behavioural ridden issues so it's difficult to tell whats napping, and whats discomfort. but my gut says it's the hooves and the comments here about the wet ground affecting frogs/heels seems the most logical answer.

She was out 24/7 but I'm bringing her in now to an open stable/pea gravel area when the ground is wet, to hopefully dry her hooves out a bit. and shes also lathered in red horse field paste at the moment to help with the thrush. I'll stick to inhand stuff until she seems happier in herself. if anyone has any other things that they would do, I'm very open to advice.

 

[Burnttoast]

luckily farrier is great! she was very encouraging about getting her barefoot and she's helped transition my other s in the past to barefoot, so luckily she's very supportive! The aim would be to keep barefoot. the horse previously had top-class farriers and even with remedial shoes and gel pads she wasn't coping, so think barefoot is her only option. thanks for those links, haven't heard of two of them so will have a look! and thanks everyone else for your views, it's very educational listening to people's feedback.

I think this came up on another thread recently - but if she had top-class farriers, how did her feet end up like this? On a more positive note, in the winter I also use NT dry or similar powder treatments for thrush, as they also help suck a bit of water away from the soft tissues. Towel dry as much as possible and a liberal shake of powder. An equibiome test might also be interesting, as gut health appears to have such an impact on hoof health.

 

[Gloi]

You need more than just biotin. You need minerals including copper and zinc. Progressive Earth do some good minerals for hooves such as their pro hoof.
I've been finding Hoof Armour really good on mine's hooves. Since using it I no longer need boots and it could help yours. Do treat for thrush too, until you are certain you have none.

 

[Hallo2012]

progressive earth laminae balancer has helped massively with a better WL connection, better frogs and better concavity in one of mine.

i would want that toe trimming back to take away the leverage forces, and to trim the frogs and treat for thrush.

 

[Cragrat]

Massive changes in the right direction, so well done you and the horse!

As others have said, I expect she will do fantastically once she's had another decent trim or or 2, when the ground dries , and she starts using his frogs and heels.

I would get some comfortable boots after her next trim and getting her moving, even if it's being ponied or led. Move, move, move to build, build build

 

[Landcruiser]

luckily farrier is great! she was very encouraging about getting her barefoot and she's helped transition my other s in the past to barefoot, so luckily she's very supportive! The aim would be to keep barefoot. the horse previously had top-class farriers and even with remedial shoes and gel pads she wasn't coping, so think barefoot is her only option. thanks for those links, haven't heard of two of them so will have a look! and thanks everyone else for your views, it's very educational listening to people's feedback.

That horse hasn't seen a top class farrier for a very long time, or even a decent farrier. There is no excuse for letting hooves get into that state (not blaming you OP, you are doing absolutely the right thing by her).

 

[Landcruiser]

old owners got her the year before and had her on biotin the whole time as her hooves were so bad when they got her. i kept her on it, and she gets a good balancer and low sugar/starch feed. she had a lot of gut issues and was ulcery when she arrived. she is putting on weight now and looks much better, but her hooves will be the big issue to get sorted. she had been doing long hacks happily in the boots, but shes really gone backwards since the last break. she has a lot of behavioural ridden issues so it's difficult to tell whats napping, and whats discomfort. but my gut says it's the hooves and the comments here about the wet ground affecting frogs/heels seems the most logical answer.

She was out 24/7 but I'm bringing her in now to an open stable/pea gravel area when the ground is wet, to hopefully dry her hooves out a bit. and shes also lathered in red horse field paste at the moment to help with the thrush. I'll stick to inhand stuff until she seems happier in herself. if anyone has any other things that they would do, I'm very open to advice.

Wewll done OP, I wouldn't be riding her either while her toes are still so long. Imagine yourself trying to go hiking in a pair of clown shoes - hard enough without adding a rucksack on your back. Imagine how your muscles and joints would feel with the unnatural leverage from your long toes - that's what long under run hooves do to a horse.

There is lots of barefoot info on my excellent barefoot trimmer's website:

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