Would love to pin, prod, electrocute, force etc. Cesar Milan

[Lunchbox legend]

I put the Dog Whisperer on so Fidget could watch "doggies on TV" while I do something else.

This man is AWFUL!! HIDEOUS way to go about things!!! Has he made the dog he's tormenting right now 'calm'? Or has the poor girl started to shut down? She's so 'calm' she's panting, licking her lips and nose, and fidgeting . As soon as she's let go, she walks away, tail down. Yeah, really 'calm' dog... Can't bear his techniques .

I'd like to prod him with a broom, pin him, put electric collars on him, force things he's scared of right into his face, prevent him escaping from any of it. Poor, poor dogs .

 

[{97702}]

I think most sensible people feel the same way about CM

 

[california dreaming]

He is a total disgrace to dog training. He seems to have hood winked a whole generation and nation.

 

[Fools Motto]

Some like him, some don't. Much the same about most things.

 

[Lunchbox legend]

He is a total disgrace to dog training. He seems to have hood winked a whole generation and nation.

The only reason I can think of for his 'success' is that he's been involved with dogs of Hollywood stars and he's got a decent PR thing going on. I truly think he's done more damage than good.

I'm one of those who hide his books when I go into book shops or pet shops that sell them

 

[SpringArising]

I think he's a bit like the Pat & Linda of the dog world. Some love him and some hate him. I personally agree with a lot of what he says. He does bring up some very good and valid points, especially about how we need to be in the moment around our dogs (and generally, all our animals) and how we really shouldn't make a big deal about anything.

I would personally rather see someone handle a dog in the way that Cesar does, than see someone pussyfoot around with treats and make the original problem worse and transfer their own anxiety onto the dog.

I haven't watched him for a couple of years, but my thoughts are based on what I have seen.

 

[Alec Swan]

It's a curious thing that many who have experience of the exceedingly ill mannered, and those dogs which are truly dangerous, those that is who have done such work, rather than viewed others via a screen, actually consider that he's been a shining light, and one for those with the eyes and the power of reason, and to see!

I suspect that arm-chair dog trainers are as arm-chair riders, and mostly unable to demonstrate their abilities.

Alec.

 

[Teaselmeg]

He is a total disgrace to dog training. He seems to have hood winked a whole generation and nation.

100% this ^^^

Cesar Millan is a TV personality who abuses dogs in the name of 'entertainment' and his bank balance.

 

[Clodagh]

I think he is pretty good, actually. Oops!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I quite like him, actually. I'd never use a prong collar or push like he did when he was bitten, but he rehabilitates dogs. The pack thing would have been amazing for Zak. We restarted our original two using some of CM's ideas: best behaved dogs ever and not at all worried.

 

[Booboos]

It's a curious thing that many who have experience of the exceedingly ill mannered, and those dogs which are truly dangerous, those that is who have done such work, rather than viewed others via a screen, actually consider that he's been a shining light, and one for those with the eyes and the power of reason, and to see!

I suspect that arm-chair dog trainers are as arm-chair riders, and mostly unable to demonstrate their abilities.

Alec.

Purely on a factual basis this is completely wrong. Here is a long list of associations of dog trainers, welfare associations and veterinary societies that condemn his methods:
http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/press-statement.php

Surely some of them can claim some practical experience in dealing with dogs?

 

[Sandstone1]

It's a curious thing that many who have experience of the exceedingly ill mannered, and those dogs which are truly dangerous, those that is who have done such work, rather than viewed others via a screen, actually consider that he's been a shining light, and one for those with the eyes and the power of reason, and to see!

I suspect that arm-chair dog trainers are as arm-chair riders, and mostly unable to demonstrate their abilities.

Alec.

What a complete load of rubbish.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/press-statement.php

Surely some of them can claim some practical experience in dealing with dogs?

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

There's a world of difference between those who make 'claims', and those who 'demonstrate' their abilities.

Alec.

 

[california dreaming]

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

There's a world of difference between those who make 'claims', and those who 'demonstrate' their abilities.

Alec.

Why do you assume that everyone who disagrees with this mans out-dated and often inhumane methods are "arm chair" trainers? how incredibly patronising, arrogant and short sited. Spiked/pronged collars, electric shock collars, scruffing etc have no place in modern day dog training. The dogs this man "trains" are, for the most part, normal, unruly, pet dogs that one meets on a day to day basis. He holds no "magic powers" when it comes to aggressive dogs. His advice to pet owners is out-dated at best and dangerous at worst.

 

[twiggy2]

I think he speaks some sense, dogs need excersise, the need to be physically satisfied before then can emotionally focus-that I agree with. that they need to work through fear I agree with in most instances, that they can learn from dogs that are calm and confident i agree with, I agree that dogs learn when in a relaxed state of mind but I do not always see a relaxed dog when he claims there is one. there are other things I do not like in his methods too but I honestly think some of the tools he uses have a place in extreme cases for the right dog and used with caution.
I don't like how confrontational he can be, I don't like how he pushes dogs into becoming reactive when they are clearly trying to avoid being so, I don't like that people can put themselves at serious risk by following his methods and I don't like the fact that he leads people to believe dogs are fixed/cured when their behaviour has been extreme and dangerous.
I do train dogs/owners/handlers and most trainers do not like him at all but I tend to be with dog training as I am with training horses, everyone you watch work with these animals can teach you something even if it is how NOT to do something. Also that there are no hard and fast rules.

 

[Dobiegirl]

I much prefer CM to some of the behaviourists out there, a lot of what he says is just basic common sense and what a lot of dog savvy people have done for years. I watched him with the rottie today and thought he handled the situation very well as he also did with the deaf Am Bulldog.

My last foster dog had been in his new home for about a fortnight when his new owners said they were having problems walking him as he was being dog aggressive, he had lived in my home with my 3 dogs including my male Dobermann since early December and had met numerous dogs belonging to my friends without any problems. So a friend and I with her foster dog (male) who he had never met travelled an hour to meet up. Apart from pulling on his lead with his new owners which we rectified he was an absolute saint, it was a handling issue with the owners who realised their constant jabbing on his lead was just revving him up, so everything is fine and the new owners are very happy. They can now cancel the behaviourist recommended by their vet with umpteen letters behind his name and was going to charge them £200 for 2 hours. He was also going to bring a stooge dog like we did but unlike us his was a stuffed dog, when I was told this I couldnt stop laughing and could only imagine the reaction from my foster dog would have been to cock his leg on it.

So compared to that behaviourist I dont think CM is that bad.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I saw him live when he visited the UK a couple of years ago, having never seen the tv programmes, and thought he talked a lot of sense, particularly with regard to dogs needing exercise. I think electric, pinch collars etc do have their place, but only when used by experienced trainers. What does concern me is the average pet owner trying out his methods such as pinning.
I went to the Rolex 3DE last year in Kentucky, and nearly every dog walking round had a prong or in some cases an electric collar on. None of these dogs looked cowed or unhappy, in contrast they were friendly , well behaved dogs enjoying their day out which says something I think.

 

[Dobiegirl]

I have never pinned a dog but whats really interesting is that its exactly what my male Dobermann does to other dogs when they want to fight him, he grabs them and pins them until they are calm and releases the dog and its like oh you misread that I really want to be your best buddy. There is never a mark on the other dog and I suppose this is also what CM is trying to replicate.

 

[deb_l222]

Personally I've got a lot of time for the fella as I think the majority of his techniques / methods are grounded in plain old common sense (as dobiegirl has said). What he advocates is a consistent and fair approach to dog handling and training, without the need to be shouty and vocal - most of his interactions are really subtle.

With truly aggressive dogs (I'm talking people aggressive here) you either have to step up, step out or put the dog to sleep. He steps up every time, which is not something every trainer / behaviourist would be prepared to do. His use of tools (brooms, tennis racket or in my case the floor mop) saved my bacon several times in the early days with one of my 'bad lads'. It isn't about prodding them with said tool to get a reaction, it's about putting an inanimate object between yourself and the gnashing teeth to protect yourself but still get the job done.

Using other dogs is also something he excels at (power of the pack and all that malarkey)......... We've got a youngster in rescue at the moment (18 months). Never been on a lead, never walked on grass, never been out of the back yard. First walk on Sunday was a nightmare, to say the least. Spinning on the lead, scooting on his belly on the grass (what is this green soft stuff lol) but he's gone out every day since, with a confident 'normal' dog and he's a different chap already. If he was on his own, I suspect nothing would have changed.

I agree, in the wrong hands, some of his techniques could get owners in trouble if they're not reading the situation (or the dog) correctly and the 'pinning' example is one of those times but for the most part his guidance to owners is usually very simple and all that's required are small changes to their routine.

 

[milo'n'molly]

I don't particularly like all his training and find some bits uncomfortable to watch and I would never use his training methods with my dog. I spent a lot of time training and socialising my dog and I would not be comfortable being so ruthless (for want of a better word)
I also don't always see a calm contented dog when he claims that that's what he has created.

However, he does talk sense in regards to dogs needing exercise and boundaries but who am I to judge when dealing with problem dogs? I put a lot of effort into making my dog as well rounded as possible but would not be happy dealing with many of the dogs he has turned around.

 

[Scarlett]

Personally I've got a lot of time for the fella as I think the majority of his techniques / methods are grounded in plain old common sense (as dobiegirl has said). What he advocates is a consistent and fair approach to dog handling and training, without the need to be shouty and vocal - most of his interactions are really subtle.

With truly aggressive dogs (I'm talking people aggressive here) you either have to step up, step out or put the dog to sleep. He steps up every time, which is not something every trainer / behaviourist would be prepared to do. His use of tools (brooms, tennis racket or in my case the floor mop) saved my bacon several times in the early days with one of my 'bad lads'. It isn't about prodding them with said tool to get a reaction, it's about putting an inanimate object between yourself and the gnashing teeth to protect yourself but still get the job done.

Using other dogs is also something he excels at (power of the pack and all that malarkey)......... We've got a youngster in rescue at the moment (18 months). Never been on a lead, never walked on grass, never been out of the back yard. First walk on Sunday was a nightmare, to say the least. Spinning on the lead, scooting on his belly on the grass (what is this green soft stuff lol) but he's gone out every day since, with a confident 'normal' dog and he's a different chap already. If he was on his own, I suspect nothing would have changed.

I agree, in the wrong hands, some of his techniques could get owners in trouble if they're not reading the situation (or the dog) correctly and the 'pinning' example is one of those times but for the most part his guidance to owners is usually very simple and all that's required are small changes to their routine.

This....

We got a rescue 7 month old Staff x in Dec. He was terrified of horses to the point of lunging at them aggressively. After doing some training on the lead around the horses we attached him to our older dog who is brilliant with horses, pup follows older dogs lead and can now be left loose on the yard with none of the previous behaviour whilst attached to Digby. He's grown so much more confident doing this and the experience has been positive IMO.. We saw it on one of CM's programs when he was dealing with another dog aggressive dog.

I think anything can be twisted to look bad and I agree that in the wrong hands or done badly it can cause damage but so can ANY training regime. I like the basics of CM's training, it mirrors a lot of what we did with our older dog Digby when he was younger without knowing it was a 'system' iykwim, and he's a dog who we can and do take everywhere with us because he is so well behaved and we are seeing the same results with the pup.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I'm old enough, as others on here no doubt are, to remember Barbara Woodhouse and her evangelistic zeal for a choke chain for every dog (and used harshly at that); and her slavish advocation of a pelham for EVERY horse - irrespective of any other factors.

Some loved her, most hated her.

Seems to me that in every generation and age, there is always someone who will rise up and think they're wonderful, and a lot of other people will agree and kiss their b@cksides and rush to do the same; and others will see through their inflated ego's and bank balances...........

 

[ester]

I do like his emphasis on exercise. Even more so in the U.S. it seems with large back yards few dogs get walked.

 

[SpringArising]

I do like his emphasis on exercise.

Me too. The amount of people who ask why their dogs are so hyper, or complain that their dogs are 'untrainable', whilst simultaneously never walking the poor things, is mind-blowing.

 

[splashgirl45]

I am another one who thinks he talks a lot of sense, and I agree with most of what he does. I certainly wouldn't want to confront some of those dogs!!!!!

 

[fankino04]

Another 1 who likes him I'm afraid, whilst I agree with positive reinforcement methods I think dogs like children need to be reprimanded for bad behaviour too ( that doesn't mean beating them)
I would rather employ someone sensible who believes a dog should do as you say than 1 of the fluffy behaviorists out there who will have you dishing out treats 2 months in just for the dog sitting when he was asked.
I recently went to see a German Shepherd for a rescue and the owner had been using a behaviourist for 2 months, there was an initial £90 consultation then a further £35 per week for a weekly session and she is also their dog walker at a cost of £12 per day 5 days a week. The issue with the dog was it attacks the resident dog yet in these 2 months she has not tried to socialise the dog, hasn't trained the owner on how to say no when the dog paws at her for attention etc.
I took my boy along as a stooge and after 10 minutes walking they were best friends although she was clearly nervous not aggressive at first so I have no idea why this behaviourist is getting paid as much as she is but would rather someone like CM be working with the dog as they identify the problem and get on with it.

 

[Laafet]

I like some aspects of his work in the same way I like some aspects of Monty Robert's work, but I do not whole heartedly support him. From the programmes I have seen most of the problem dogs are not really a problem, it is the owners, whether they don't exercise enough or are too soft or put the dog in a position where the poor thing cannot do right. As for the use of restraints, an electric collar turned around my rescue dog, he had been allowed to develop a horrendous chase drive, that meant I could rarely let him off the lead, all the usual methods did not work, once the red mist descended that was it, he'd go, no matter what was in his way. He'd kill wildlife, people pet's, nearly got run over many a time. A friend leant me her collar that she had used on her greyhound, I got advice on how to use it and was very strict on myself about its use. It took a few weeks and turned him around, I can stop him if he does charge off, but in all fairness he rarely does now, I don't have the collar any more and have not used it for 3 years or so but it clearly did a job that I was failing to manage with training alone. He is happy, can play on the racecourse in a massive open space and never runs off. Surely those few weeks of alternative training were better than the next three years on a lead? With horses I always look for all the solutions to a problem, not just those that are considered 'the way to do it'.

 

[Mister Ted]

Have taken up Ceasers tips on training my confirmed cat hater terrier to get on with my cat.After months of trying every suggested method from many dog books with his method the problem was sorted in a few weeks and they get on great even sleeping in the same basket. His ways make sense and a lot of it is common sense.Of course my dog was trembling but not because I was causing him any physical pain,his mind was struggling to overcome what was to him natural which was to chase the cat.To snap out of that mode and change the mind set is what is required and Ceaser has the vast experience in working dogs to know how their mind works.
Its normally red zone dogs that nobody can control or wants due to ignorant owners that he rehabilitates.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/press-statement.php

……..

I'm staggered at the number of self appointed organisations which, none (that I can see) being qualified through tried and tested approaches, having either the knowledge or the ability which would be able to deal with the higher end of difficult or dangerous dogs. Being a qualified Vet doesn't give anyone an automatic passage to understand the mind of any animal, be it a horse, a dog or a sheep! There will be the odd competent Vet who can handle a dog, but as with Equine Vets, the management of the animal concerned simply isn't their field of expertise.

The established animal charities? In the main, setting oneself up as a registered charity, with all the relevant tax relief is more focused upon the self promotion of the charity than the genuine care of their charges. Canine behaviourists and those who would lecture those who train dogs, from an apparent pulpit, have been discredited and simply put, whilst working with the already compliant pooch they'll be fine, but when attempting to work with the dog which has entrenched views, fail. For those who work with any 'difficult' animal, placing that animal in a position of discomfort, be it a horse or a dog, and applying a system whereby the animal once it understands that compliance brings about a release, are those who demonstrate their abilities. Positive reinforcement will encourage the behaviour be it desirable, or not. Compliance with our wishes is only ever achieved when an animal accepts and acknowledges our leadership.

The principles of 'Pressure and Release' used by the likes of Monty Roberts and Gary Witheford, to mention only two, are exactly the same principles as those used by Milan. Retrospective punishment doesn't train any animal, but cause and effect does. Pain in itself only serves to teach any animal that we are to be feared. Discomfort, when an animal grasps the fact that it's brought it upon itself, does. Pain when applied can all so often exaggerate the animals undesired behaviour.

I have never used spiked collars or any tool which gives an animal an electric shock. I don't consider that I'm qualified to use such tools.

Back to the subject of this thread; We have to bear in mind that Milan generally steps in with dogs which for a variety of reasons have never learned that they are the servants of man, rather than the other way around. So many of these dogs are of breeds which are not generally given to any form of 'fitting in' with their owners, and the owners, because they seem to know better than the trainers who through experience tend to avoid such breeds, haven't the common sense to wonder if their choice of breed has been ideal. Experience of breeds which are known to be intractable, wooden or just plain selfish, is what has the experienced trainers avoiding them. Those other dogs which he demonstrates with, are those who through no apparent early input, have ever been given direction and so they make their own way in life, and it's that which brings them in to conflict with man.

I very much doubt that you and I will ever reach agreement, and though I'll accept for the tyro, the arguments of those who you seem to support, will undoubtably appear to be logical and very attractive, they are all based, or so it seems to me, upon the fact that dogs have the very same power of reason as would a human, and the simple fact is that they don't.

Alec.

 

[Shady]

nicely said Alec, i am a huge supporter of his work which is largely based on common sense, i have over the years helped many rescue dogs using his methods ,my own dog in particular , a massive weimaraner with guarding tendencies and a dominance problem no longer owns my house or those who visit me and because he comes from a totally working dog line he was terrible when we brought 2 new kittens into the house, 1 week later using CM's methods , the kittens were sleeping with him and he is amazing with cats now, i have a lot of respect for the man.