Would this concern you?

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eatonbraynat

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I was mucking out my stable one morning and I saw one of the yard grooms start to take two horses out of their stables and off to the field. I didn't see what happened next but a teeny tiny clatter of hooves on the yard then this girl starts shouting . I look round the corner and the horse who had obviously been shouted at was standing back from this girl head up high. With that she shouted again and whacked it round the head with the lead rope.

I don't agree with violence and hitting but I didn't see what started it. I'm a bit concerned as this person handles my horse who is very sensitive.

What do you guys think?
 
Yes I would be concerned. Even if the horse was naughty why would it warrant a slap around the head with a lead rope? Maybe a slap across the shoulder but no more. Would she handle my horse........No!
 
Impossible to say without knowing the cause of the incident. When leading two horses at once you are very limited as to what action you can safely take and therefore it may have been the only thing she could do in the circumstances. Personally on my yard it wouldn't concern me because I know that the people who handle my horse are fab and if he is getting a whack then he will have deserved it. Of more concern to me would be if they let him get away with being naughty on the lead as this would no doubt cause me an issue down the line.
 
Fun Times said:
Impossible to say without knowing the cause of the incident. When leading two horses at once you are very limited as to what action you can safely take and therefore it may have been the only thing she could do in the circumstances. Personally on my yard it wouldn't concern me because I know that the people who handle my horse are fab and if he is getting a whack then he will have deserved it. Of more concern to me would be if they let him get away with being naughty on the lead as this would no doubt cause me an issue down the line.
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This, couldn't have put it better myself.
 
If it was me, I'd be concerned too if a groom/anyone was hitting a horse around its head. So I would follow up. Agree horses need to be safe to lead, but that sort of aggression won't fix anything. Personally, I would prefer one horse to be led at a time, too. Hope you can get peace of mind about your horse.
 
My horse bit me quite hard on the boob yesterday while I was clipping the rope on my other horse, then bit the other horse hard enough to make her squeal in pain. He got a light whack across the nose with the end of the lead rope, and if you'd have looked at that split second he would have been standing back from me with his head raised, then you would have seen him walk happily up the lane next to me.

Personally, if I'd have been concerned at the time I would have gone over and said are you ok, and she would more than likely have told you what was going on, then you'd have been able to form a more accurate view of what happened and really know whether it was worth worrying about or not.
 
Leading two out together is what would concern me the most. It's not safe and puts herself and the two horses at risk
 
Fun Times said:
Impossible to say without knowing the cause of the incident. When leading two horses at once you are very limited as to what action you can safely take and therefore it may have been the only thing she could do in the circumstances. Personally on my yard it wouldn't concern me because I know that the people who handle my horse are fab and if he is getting a whack then he will have deserved it. Of more concern to me would be if they let him get away with being naughty on the lead as this would no doubt cause me an issue down the line.
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^^^ this^^^
 
Spilletta said:
If it was me, I'd be concerned too if a groom/anyone was hitting a horse around its head. So I would follow up. Agree horses need to be safe to lead, but that sort of aggression won't fix anything. Personally, I would prefer one horse to be led at a time, too. Hope you can get peace of mind about your horse.
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Agree - I personally would never hit any horse around the head, especially someone elses horse. It concerns me that violence was the initial reaction, it rarely ends well. Maybe keep an eye out on that particular groom just in case it was a one off or are they generally rough with the horses?
 
i agree that a horse should be safe to lead and handle but i dont agree with hitting it around the face, if it had done something just for the sake of being naughty im sure a slap on the shoulder with the rope would of told it off without having to hit its face, i personaly wouldnt want my horse being handled by someone that finds it acceptable to do that to someone elses horse. I also dont think leading two at once is particularly safe its hard enough to control one if it spooks or misbehaves with out handling two at once, maybe bring this up and if in future she only has one horse to deal with at a time she might find it easier to react to problems in a better manner :)
 
Depends what the horse did. I smacked mine on the nose yesterday because he wouldn't get his head out of the hedge after I had done the combination lock on the gate :p. He moved head out of hedge and the two horses and I carried on our way. I wouldn't hit the other horse anywhere as he is the worrying sort a no works just fine.

I'd have asked if she was ok.
 
No, its not the ideal reaction but it does need to be taken into context. If the horse was potentially putting the employee at risk, an immediate short sharp remonstration can be effective and a flick with the soft end of lead rope isn't going to harm the horse.

What is important, is how the girl deals with the horses on a day to day basis and how settled the horses in her care, are.

Some owners have bargy ill mannered horses which puts yard staff at risk. These owners would be doing their horses a favour if they trained them to lead politely so there is less chance of handlers having to reprimand them.
 
amage said:
Leading two out together is what would concern me the most. It's not safe and puts herself and the two horses at risk
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I lead 3 or 2 and a wheelbarrow. In a safe environment, with well behaved horses that are comfortable with each other, it isnt dangerous.

In bad weather / slippery conditions / on roads would be different.
 
I agree that discipline needs to be taught, and difficult to say, as others have highlighted, you didn't see the offence done by the horse.

However, Im not sure I agree with hitting a horse around the head with a lead rope. There are other places to reprimand a horse. Im also not sure i agree that it may have been the only action she could have taken either. She obviously stopped, turned to face the horse and swung the rope with enough force and height to slap the horse around the head/neck- not, I'm my opinion a split second action.

As a one off I suppose it wouldnt bother me too much- although Id rather it hadn't happened at all- but I would wonder if it was one off and who else she had done it to.
 
bouncing_ball said:
I lead 3 or 2 and a wheelbarrow. In a safe environment, with well behaved horses that are comfortable with each other, it isnt dangerous.

In bad weather / slippery conditions / on roads would be different.
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I used to work/help out at a riding school and we'd routinely bring all the horses in 2,3, or 4 at a time in the morning before lessons started. All riding school horses, all quiet and well used to each other, they would then be left to drift in the yard, ropes over necks, while we slotted them into stables. Same thing happened every morning. One morning something spooked all of them as we we were walking back down the lane - yard manager in front with 4, me with 3 and someone else behind with another 3. They all took off at the same time. Yard manager still has a limp to this day.....

ETA: re the OP; I would also need context. Although, I would never hit around the head but if a horse nipped it would get a sharp tap back on the nose so it knew exactly where it had gone wrong.
 
I'd honestly ask the groom in question. Just a "I heard a bit of a kerfuffle with X yesterday, was everything ok" might offer an explanation that provides context. Agreed it's not the ideal response but sometimes a horse sharply oversteps the line and needs a sharp reprimand.

One thing that is important is that shortness of patience/ tolerance can have a cumulative effect, ideally you step back, go have a cup of tea but that's not always possible if you're working on a yard. So approaching with sympathy, and maybe saying if your horse is naughty in any way please tell you so that you can work to keep his manners in line... could help a bit. Sometimes even saying yeah he was a real horror and barged me can diffuse the situation rather than stewing.

I try to steer clear of the head with discipline but honestly there have been a few times over my life when I have smacked one in a way that would look bad to someone that didn't see the initital action. Boob bites are the worst!
 
I regularly lead two, and have led more together in the past, with very few problems. It depends on what happened - why she told the horse off. When leading more than one you have to be a bit more on your toes, because the actions of one horse generally affect affect the other(s), so it needs nipping in the bud. The middle is not a nice place to be when two big horses are being bargy!

More telling for me would be to see the same pair being led a minute later - is the horse wary, or is he acting normally?
 
Fun Times said:
Impossible to say without knowing the cause of the incident. When leading two horses at once you are very limited as to what action you can safely take and therefore it may have been the only thing she could do in the circumstances. Personally on my yard it wouldn't concern me because I know that the people who handle my horse are fab and if he is getting a whack then he will have deserved it. Of more concern to me would be if they let him get away with being naughty on the lead as this would no doubt cause me an issue down the line.
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This! Granted he's my horse but I've been known to give H a tap on the nose/cheek if he's gone to bite me and would have no qualms about someone else doing the same if he misbehaved in their care.
 
I worked as a groom for years on 3 (very different) busy stud/livery yards. I used my experience to judge whether something needed a slap/a growl/a DON'TTT or ignoring.

My boss trusted me that I knew the which ones were sensitive and you just had to growl, which ones warrented a slap, which ones you just had to ignore or they would p!ss off into the next county!

Yes a few times the end of the leadrope came in handy. Sometimes a quick flick made them stop and think about what they were doing. Sometimes a hefty whack was in order if something which was trying to trample or run straight through you!

For those saying each one should be lead individually. Yes the very difficult ones were. But when your fields are a half an hour round trip, turning 14 horses out individually would take all day!

In all those years only one accident (I wasn't actually leading that time but another experienced groom.)

If you don't trust the groom's judgement as to how to act according to the horse's behaviour then maybe you shouldn't have your horse there or should take it up with yard manager/owner.
 
Maybe the horse bit her or the other horse. You can't possibly judge without knowing the full circumstances. Would it concern me? No, not in isolation.
 
I have no problem with a smack but the leadrope around the face is a BIG no, the muzzle is so sensitive and the eyes could suffer severe injury from the end of a leadrope. use it across the chest in extreme situations but not the face.

Yes it would concern me.
 
My cob I could hit round the head with a bit of 4 by two he still wouldn't take any notice my other horse only have to raise my hand would be the biggest mistake of my life he dosent take to kindly to a smack
 
I would not be happy with that and would move yards. I have a no hitting policy anyway so that yard would not suit me.

I appreciate lots of people think it is fine to hit, but even if you find some hitting acceptable hitting the face sounds as though it crosses a line for you. While you could specify that your horse is not to be treated like that, fundamentally if someone thinks it is ok they tend to just do it anyway. It would only be if she genuinely felt she had done the wrong thing that she would try not to react like that again. If she felt she was right I would expect her to treat your horse just the same. Hitting at all or level of reprimand / violence is not something you can easily change someone's mind about whether that relates to horses or children or adults.
 
Have you noticed any other horses at the yard being headshy or fearful? If not, then I would assume that the incident required a firm reprimand and the horse was all the better for it. Horses are too big, too fast and too dangerous to let get away with rude behaviour.
 
I would be very concerned, there is no need for violence snd definately not around the head. regardless of what happened, to me, this reaction is not acceptable
 
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