Would you accept this offer ?

S

shadowboy

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Im not sure if you remember but my parents wanted to rent their fields/stabling. We have had an offer of the full amount per month that we wanted but...the gentleman wants to sublet- there are four stables/5 acres and a school (brand new) but no floodlights. He has 2 horses of his own who he wants to stable into the barn that we currently use to store 2 traps and the ride on lawn-mower. He then wants to rent out the other boxes and run it as a schooling/breaking livery.

Has anyone ever done this? I am dubious obviously as there actually isnt enough grass for 6 (only 5 acres) but no one else has been interested in the yard- even though its immaculate and in super condition.
 
Not if you dont have the grazing to accomadate this..... just think how quickly your immaculate yard will be ruined!!!

He could quite easily use the two boxes and rent out the other two!
 
Don't do it!!!! if you have a lovely little yard then hold out for someone who wants it as it is. If this person wants to do dealing /livery then they will no doupt use and abuse your lovely property. The grazing you have is ok for the stables there but certainly wont sustain more and in the situation you are describing then he would most likely chuck horses out left right and centre to save time and money.
 
thats exactly what I was thinking! But the yard is totally unused at the moment- and for the foreseable future. He claims the horses will be in most of the time because they are being broken in/schooled- but im not convinced. I suspect we will just have to lower the rent that my mum wants in order to attract the kind of people who want to rent the yard for their own horses/or a group of people want to share together.
 
I can't see a problem so long as he pays the business rates and you set a strict limit of how many horses he is allowed on site at any time. Take a decent deposit to cover any damages and rent the palce to him on short lease. One man who is responsible for the whole place is better than a group.
 
If you can't find anyone else, and this man thinks it is only viable if he has more horses for the rental, then you may be charging too much.
I'd readvertise having reduced the rent appropriately, if I were you...
S
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I would be inclined to agree.
Something is only worth what somebody will pay for it!
Where have you advertised? It might be worth rethinking your advertising.
Also remember that all the time it stand empty your parents are losing the potential income.
I dont think that 6 horses on 5 acres is too much, the old rule of one horse per acre applied to those who lived out for most of the year, whereas if this guy is breaking and schooling, they will probably be out in either morning or afternoon.
If your parents are worried about any damage, then ensure the have any damage clauses highlighted in a tenancy/rental agreement and take a refundable bond off him at commencement.
 
Well I think it was £500 per month all bills included. No restrictions on times etc. No idea what a similar place would be like in this area only that a friend has a smaller- less attractive yard for £400 per month all bills included. It was advertised in the local paper.

I think the worry was having horses coming and going constantly bringing all sorts of issues/diseases with them. Plus the fact that there are only 2 paddocks so they would have to mix together or use both fields at the same time. What sort of references would you ask forfrom him. There is quite a profit in it for him I think. He said he charges £125 per week per horse atm, so thats £520 per week, so £2080 every 4 weeks. With his main bill being £500. Not sure how much straw etc he would get through...his wife helps at weekends/evenings no staff will be on the yard only him/his wife/the owners when they visit.
 
I think you'd need planning permission for business use if he were to run a business from it. I suspect this is one reason why people rent out for private use only.

Also your neighbours, if any, may object to all the coming and going related to a business. People generally don't allow sub-letting. You need to ensure that whatever agreement is used that nobody establishes any rights to stay on the site after the rental agreement ends.

Make sure your parents insurance policy covers any liability in respect of this letting.
 
Given that as a basic business plan, he isnt going to make a fortune, he sounds like he is going to probably come out with about £1200 to £1300 per month, which is reasonable.
I would want to have written references from a former employer, also maybe contact details for a couple of owners and also a written character reference, usually these are :- I have known X for X years and he has proved a reliable and trustworthy friend blah blah. I would ask for a months rental as a bond. In respect of sharing the field perhaps you could use some electric fencing? If the horses are being sent to him by owners, then I would always assume they are up to date with vacc's as people who are investing in their horses with professional schooling would most likely look after the basics. You could always have this as request in the agreement anyway, but with the passport regs as they are I would think most would be ok.
 
We are lucky in that we have no close neighbours and we have a private drive. Before we bought the house, it was actually a livery yard (had more grazing then but was sold as a seperate lot that we could not afford, and the barn did used to have another 3 stables within it) so I think planning permission would not be difficult to gain, although I dont think that mum would want to have to go through all that which is why she wanted to privately rent it out. I am thinking reduce the rate to £450 pcm and see if thats more favourable. The yard is lovely old stone yard with the old fashioned stone mounting block etc and we have potted plants dotted around/gravel drive which we would continue to maintain as it is our home..... had we not built an arena we would not need the money to rent out the yard....we only built it because we thought we would do a lot of breaking and schooling ourselves.... but then circumstances changed.
 
If a person with four horses were on DIY yard, they may be willing and able to pay four times the local DIY rate per horse.
In our area that woudl be between 20 and 30 per week per horse, ofr use of school ( but no lights) inc utilties.
Dos it have good hacking?
So moving to your yard would be equivlent to that at £350 to £400 a month.
 
Ahhh thats an interesting way of working it out. Here you will pay about 25 per week per horse so thats £400. Yes we have super hacking from home- once you cross a B road. But is goes on for miles (called the Flitch way i think)
We are able to supply straw for £1 per bale and hay for £20 per large round bale if anyone did move- if they wanted it. (we are very good friends with the neighbouring farmer (mum brings him cooked dinners every now and again lol)) but thanks for that - i hadnt really considered it like that!
 
I think that once it was commercial premises it would be subject to NNDR (national non-domestic rates) and you would have to apply to revert to private use (if you could get planning permission to do so) in order to stop this liability if it ever ceased commerical use.

Also I suspect that it could impact on capital gains tax on the sale of the barn/stables part of your parents property if they ever sold the house in the future, assuming that this area is currently within their domestic boundaries. If so at present they would not have to pay any CGT on the barn/stables if they sold their property but if you get planning permission for commercial use then I don't think it would count as part of the main residence for tax purposes.

I'm not a legal/tax expert but your parents need to take factors like these into account if they decide to let on these terms.

I also feel that a private renter would probably treat the land better, especially if they only have up to four horses. It sounds a very nice set up.
 
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No idea what a similar place would be like in this area only that a friend has a smaller- less attractive yard for £400 per month all bills included. It was advertised in the local paper.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd rather share my property with a friend for 400 than an unknown person setting up a business for 500 .
 
If he should run it as a business, let alone any permissions you might need, have you thought of the impact that having several unknown people on your property might cause you? I personally wouldn't want a professional dealing yard here as it is still my home, I like to know everyone who comes here which wouldn't happen if he has clients or even prospective purchasers visiting and Lord knows what they would be like in some cases! (that's not meant to sound snobby, just being practical!) If it was one person and their own horses or a group of friends, that would be completely different as you'd be able to get to know them properly. Better the devil you know and all that!
 
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