Would you allow your horse to get cold in order to loose weight?

[bigboyrocky]

It seems i am going to get slaughtered for whatever i say, so i will stop. But i cant be doing anything that wrong, as all my horses are very healthy and look brilliant.

 

[AmyMay]

It seems i am going to get slaughtered for whatever i say, so i will stop. But i cant be doing anything that wrong, as all my horses are very healthy and look brilliant.

You're not being slaughtered, just having a difference of opinion with people.

For what it's worth, I agree with you about rugs and the condition of the coat - obviously they help lay the coat, so can help make them look better.

I also think that we're being very 'general' in our discussions here. However, even competition horses that I know will have rugs reduced or whipped off if the their pro rider feels they need to slim down.

At the end of the day - we all have to do what we feel is right for our particular horse. And the fact that a number of us disagree with each other perhaps mean that there is no exact right or wrong way to go about it.

 

[Serenity087]

What's with all the "well I wouldn't take my duvet off, or make my child stand in shorts and t-shirt in winter" posts?

As it happens, as a fatty myself, I HAVE been making myself shiver in order to lose weight! And by god it's painful, but having just had my obese father diagnosed as diabetic, I can think of much more painful things to go through!!!

However, I don't have a hairy coat (well, except on my legs ), a hind gut, a constant source of hay and a stable to mooch around in! I was just in bed!

As has been said before, if we stopped treating horses like children, perhaps we'd stop killing them with kindness. Yes, killing.

Like I said, my pregnant mare was out in -15 without a rug, and chucked out a huge foal. Any more fat on her body than she had and foal would have got stuck, and I could have lost mare and foal.

Seems like a fair swap, a rug, or two dead horses. I know which one I'd pick, but then, I'm not a hippy who thinks my horses are my babies (actually, I am, I just also have a brain!!!)

 

[stencilface]

Thing is, its great if you can manage your horse that way, and have a proper fitness regime, but for some people/horses that just isn't feasible. I can keep my horses weight down my riding more/for longer etc. But our older pony cannot be managed that way as it just wouldn't be fair on him to do lots of work, so his 'management' involves taking his rug off and making him work to stay warm.

Don't feel like you're being slaughtered - cos its not true

 

[Gorgeous George]

Yes I would and I am at the moment. George is naked both during the day unless it's raining hard and at night when he's in his stable. He is slightly overweight and I don't want it to get worse now the grass is through. He has 3/4 of a scoop of hi-fi just to put his supplement in, goes out in a muzzle, has soaked hay and is ridden 6 times a week to keep his weight in check. So long as he has enough forage, when this ferments it produces heat and therefore helps to keep him warm whilst using up calories at the same time.

 

[bigboyrocky]

Thing is, its great if you can manage your horse that way, and have a proper fitness regime, but for some people/horses that just isn't feasible. I can keep my horses weight down my riding more/for longer etc. But our older pony cannot be managed that way as it just wouldn't be fair on him to do lots of work, so his 'management' involves taking his rug off and making him work to stay warm.

Don't feel like you're being slaughtered - cos its not true

Very good point about the older horses...
And sorry that sounded worse written than when i said it re: being slaughtered
Just had a couple of people shoot my comments down in a row lol

With an older horse, i definatley wouldnt take of thier rugs to make them loose weight. I would probably just make sure they had ad lib forage, and wean them off the hard feed completely. I would probably keep them out 24/7 so they have freedom to move around aswell.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Hope you won't consider I am shooting you down, but why wouldn't you take an older ponies rug off to make it lose weight? I have taken the rug off our 22 year (which I know isn't that old) old purely for that reason. I can't reduce her hard feed as she doesn't have any, can't ride her as she is far too small for me, she lives out but the grass isn't brilliant yet and still she came out of the winter too porky.

 

[bex1984]

I would and do deliberately under-rug all the time, whether in the stable or out in the field.

It is very effective at getting some weight off which is all-important. It is so, so hard to get the weight off good doers, particularly native types, because we are fighting against nature (modern pasture and methods of keeping a horse being so different to what these horses have evolved to cope with), so may as well work with nature on this one - horses will naturally drop weight when it's colder.

As for the 'I like my snuggly duvet so my horse should have one too' brigade, perhaps you should contemplate being crippled with pain while one of the bones in your feet detaches and starts to sink through the sole of your foot. Not fancy it? hmmm neither would your horse.

 

[stencilface]

With an older horse, i definatley wouldnt take of thier rugs to make them loose weight. I would probably just make sure they had ad lib forage, and wean them off the hard feed completely. I would probably keep them out 24/7 so they have freedom to move around aswell.

You see, he is old (24) but is a pony welsh x something - and still gets very fat through the winter. He lost weight when we stabled him a few winters ago, but is happier out. Clipping him to keep his weight down works well, and I don't think I've ever seen the little fatty shiver!

 

[bex1984]

With an older horse, i definatley wouldnt take of thier rugs to make them loose weight. I would probably just make sure they had ad lib forage, and wean them off the hard feed completely. I would probably keep them out 24/7 so they have freedom to move around aswell.

Not aiming to shoot you down or anything here, but I wonder if you have experience of managing the weight of a good doing native type - I ask this as a genuine question? IME, ad lib forage, regardless of having room to move around, will still pile the weight on...unless they are walking literally miles and miles everyday.

 

[Achinghips]

To quote you from another post:



Are you including yourself in that? My response to you was very tongue in cheek and supposed to be a joke............

No it wasn't and you know it. As is this new response, quoting from another post, still rude.

 

[bigboyrocky]

Hope you won't consider I am shooting you down, but why wouldn't you take an older ponies rug off to make it lose weight? I have taken the rug off our 22 year (which I know isn't that old) old purely for that reason. I can't reduce her hard feed as she doesn't have any, can't ride her as she is far too small for me, she lives out but the grass isn't brilliant yet and still she came out of the winter too porky.

Not at all
I guess i have never been in the situation where my horses have not had hard feed, so for me this is how i controll my horses weight (and also energy levels) along with varying exercise. All the older horses i have had have never been that overweight, and i havent been in the siuation where taking off the rugs would be my only option (which it seems to me its pretty much your only option left? correct me if im wrong) so maybe a little naive in my comment?

All our older horses go out in herds along with the younger horses (when we had that many horses! Now only have 2!) in a big open feild as we found this kept them moving, as if one of them decided to go for a gallop, theyd all follow! So in my case, it was still exercise, and feeding that controlled thier weight..

 

[ester]

Lol, thats where they are all different BBR, Frank's field mate goes for a gallop..... he stands and watches or eats

and yup your right, changing hard feed doesn't enable you to control fatties' weight really as many aren't getting any in the first place. Mine stopped being fed end of March (when they went out 24/7)

 

[bigboyrocky]

Lol, thats where they are all different BBR, Frank's field mate goes for a gallop..... he stands and watches or eats

LOL, hmm thats where my theory stops working

 

[chestnut cob]

Obviously everybody has different views but the boy in my siggy was always a chuncky monkey, and cut down on feed and slight cut down on forage, and a good fitness reigeme was what kept him looking as well as he did. With no rug, thier coat isnt usually as good a quility either, so i would rug him according to the weather, and how warm he felt.

Cutting down your horse's forage is more damaging to him than leaving him unrugged. Would you really rather risk colic or stomach ulcers by leaving your horse without enough forage, than him being a little bit chilly? Horses keep warm by digesting forage so if you cut his forage right down then he'll be cold so therefore will need more rugs... I do agree re. the fitness regime though, there are a couple of people I know who insist on cutting their horse's forage out almost completely overnight in the stable yet won't increase the workload so their horses lose weight "because we don't have time to ride"... totally bizarre.

Coat condition has nothing to do with rugging, it's to do with the general health of the horse. Mine was clipped late (end Feb/early March), is now unrugged 24/7 and was in a no fill TO without a neck cover for a month or more before that.... he has the best summer coat he's ever had, lovely and shiny and covered in dapples.

 

[bigboyrocky]

so if you cut his forage right down

Ah but i didnt say that, i would never cut it right down!! For the reasons you said! But you can give them a bit less so they learn to graze through it rather than eat it all at once.. I have worked for a top event yard and a top DR yard, and at neither yard did all thier horses get the same amount of hay/haylage... The fat babies who were just coming into work, and needed to slim down were given maybe half the manger full of hay, and the horses at the top of thier game who needed lots of enerygy and condition, had the manger full up to the top with quality haylage. This was topped up 3 times a day, so they were never left with nothing for long at all, but the horses who had lots, ate it quickly, and the horses who didnt have much, they (over time) learnt not to eat it all at once. I think you misinterprated my point.

 

[bigboyrocky]

Coat condition has nothing to do with rugging, it's to do with the general health of the horse. Mine was clipped late (end Feb/early March), is now unrugged 24/7 and was in a no fill TO without a neck cover for a month or more before that.... he has the best summer coat he's ever had, lovely and shiny and covered in dapples.

Of course a good coat comes from good feeding and a healthy horse, but rugging them correctly can also help coat quality.

 

[touchstone]

Over twenty/thirty years ago it was the norm for most 'ordinary' horses to remain unrugged over winter, it seems that recently rugging has become the norm for every horse and pony, whether unclipped, clipped and working hard or simply a leisure horse. The rugs back then weren't particularly warm either and nowadays we smother them in duvets.

The RS where I taught had ordinary ponies that were trace clipped and never rugged. They all did very well, were never cold and had miniscule amounts of extra hard feed. I think that today we have anthropomorphised our horses and because we feel cold we assume that our horses are. I do rug for convenience, but prefer horses to be without if they don't need them, it is much healthier for a horse to warm himself up by eating fibre/movement than it is for a horse to be unable to cool off because he is over rugged which can cause colic and stress laminitis. So yes, I would leave a horse without a rug to lose weight within reason.

There is an interesting article on how horses cope with cold here:- http://www.saddleshop.com/sentinel/articles/coldhorses.htm

 

[ester]

Ah but i didnt say that, i would never cut it right down!! For the reasons you said! But you can give them a bit less so they learn to graze through it rather than eat it all at once.. I have worked for a top event yard and a top DR yard, and at neither yard did all thier horses get the same amount of hay/haylage... The fat babies who were just coming into work, and needed to slim down were given maybe half the manger full of hay, and the horses at the top of thier game who needed lots of enerygy and condition, had the manger full up to the top with quality haylage. This was topped up 3 times a day, so they were never left with nothing for long at all, but the horses who had lots, ate it quickly, and the horses who didnt have much, they (over time) learnt not to eat it all at once. I think you misinterprated my point.

I'm not sure a native would work that out see am actually surprised any horse can!..... they have a tendency to think all the food in the world might disappear if they don't eat it now! They live in fear of being chucked out (In Franks case!) back on a welsh hillside and would be more evolutionary correct. if there is food there eat it while it is still there sort of thing

 

[TinselRider]

I have started leaving Ban in just a waffle overnight (he is stabled obv!!), he was clipped but now almost has all of his summer coat through. He also has his haynets inside eachother to slow his eating down to a more acceptable pace (instead of scoffing a net in 2 hrs ).

I have been doing so for the last week to no ill effect and he is perfectly happy in himself, now slowly dropping weight!

Of course I would not let him freeze but as it has allready been pointed out his forage provides him with his "internal heat".



*awaits to be shot down in flames*

 

[bigboyrocky]

I have started leaving Ban in just a waffle overnight (he is stabled obv!!), he was clipped but now almost has all of his summer coat through. He also has his haynets inside eachother to slow his eating down to a more acceptable pace (instead of scoffing a net in 2 hrs ).

I have been doing so for the last week to no ill effect and he is perfectly happy in himself, now slowly dropping weight!

Of course I would not let him freeze but as it has allready been pointed out his forage provides him with his "internal heat".



*awaits to be shot down in flames*

another good point with double netting

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

To answer your question: not to the point of shivering, but yes, I would whip the rugs off.

Same as this. I would not have my horse rugless if they were truly cold and shivering but I would leave rugless so as they used more energy to keep warm

 

[Maesfen]

I have started leaving Ban in just a waffle overnight (he is stabled obv!!), he was clipped but now almost has all of his summer coat through. He also has his haynets inside eachother to slow his eating down to a more acceptable pace (instead of scoffing a net in 2 hrs ).

I have been doing so for the last week to no ill effect and he is perfectly happy in himself, now slowly dropping weight!

Of course I would not let him freeze but as it has allready been pointed out his forage provides him with his "internal heat".



*awaits to be shot down in flames*

Lovely to find someone so sensible.

Incidentally, going back to the opening post. Why was the horse ALLOWED to get obese in the first place; it doesn't say much for the owner's horsemastership skills?

 

[hessy12]

Better to be a bit cold and lose some weight than end up with laminitis. Inside a stable, where it's dry, and with a warm bed to lie on, hell, horses are easily able to keep themselves warm!

Maybe if people started treating their horses like the animal they are, instead of treating them like a human baby, then maybe, just maybe, there would be fewer horses suffering from preventable illnesses like laminitis.

It's like people thinking that their horse is bored in the stable, so we'll give it a bucket full of molasses sugar to keep it happy........................................

It's a bloody horse for god sake, of course it can cope without a rug in SPRING!!!!!

I 100% agree with your common sense. People should not pamper horses. How refreshing to see a sensible reply to this question.

 

[Sarah1]

Rotchana - I disagree. I was going to say exactly the same as Amymay ie 'but you're not a horse' - that's not rude it's fact...! The other comment Amymay made about there being 'something you're not telling us' was quite obviously meant in fun. Please don't be upset.
I think this is a very emotive topic & always has been, at the end of the day as I think someone else said we're all doing what we feel is best for our own horses.
For my lad the kindest thing I can do is try to get his weight down after winter - he's never looked poor in his life & can live on fresh air - when the spring grass comes through he'll be in a tangle if I don't address his weight now - he's ID x WB and only has to look at a blade of grass to put weight on so along with increased exercise but with plenty of hay (big bag given twice a day) making him use his fat reserves is working a treat, I probably could even do with him losing it a bit faster if I'm honest!
I don't have a thin skinned TB, I have a stocky, hot, beast of a horse who will not suffer in the slightest from not having a rug on!

 

[chestnut cob]

I have started leaving Ban in just a waffle overnight (he is stabled obv!!), he was clipped but now almost has all of his summer coat through. He also has his haynets inside eachother to slow his eating down to a more acceptable pace (instead of scoffing a net in 2 hrs ).

I have been doing so for the last week to no ill effect and he is perfectly happy in himself, now slowly dropping weight!

Of course I would not let him freeze but as it has allready been pointed out his forage provides him with his "internal heat".



*awaits to be shot down in flames*

Similar here, though I am incredibly cruel and mine doesn't even have a waffle/fleece on. He isn't overweight but vet says he's right at the top of his optimum weight range, and if I want to do HT and some ODE this summer then he needs to lose 50kg. So, he's now unrugged (unless it's pouring with rain and horrid) 24/7, has his full summer coat through (he was fully clipped in Feb) and much happier naked than he was rugged. He gets minimal hard feed, just enough to carry his joint supplement, and hay in the smallest holed haynet I can possibly find. I've upped the work load (ridden 6 days per week and unfortunately for him, he's also getting walker sessions as it's the easiest way to increase work load) and he's slowly losing weight.

I always prefer to under rug. Half the horses on my yard were in so many rugs over winter that if you felt underneath, they were soaked with sweat. Not nice! My boy is on loan and he came to me with one cotton sheet, one MW no neck stable rug and one MW half neck TO. Owners said that in 13 years, he'd never ever needed more than that, and he really doesn't. He comes out in heat rash if he's too warm!

 

[chestercharlie]

Another cruel person here!! Horse fully clipped except legs, summer coat peeking through but although I nearly weakened last night (ponio gone from being in at night to living out full time in last few days) I managed to turn him out for second night in a row naked.

He isnt suffering he has a tiny bit of excess he can use and he is not doing that much ridden work so he will survive!!

I know for a fact if his rug, however lightweight had been left on, he would now be cooking in his rug during the day.

 

[Birker2020]

No body mentioned that the horse wouldn't be stood there shivering though did they. If you are simply cutting down on rugs that would be okay, but if you are taking rugs off a horse completely that has until that point always had rugs on (whether for a medical reason or not) then I still do not see it is justifiable. That is just my opinion. Surely a kinder and far better way would be to cut down on the type/amount of feed in its diet and encourage exercise (even if that is by means of hanging lots of nets up to encourage walking in the stable) or a snackaball so at least the horse is moving.

I am just saying that imho it is unfair to strip a horse of its rugs (and means of keeping warm) when it has always (up to that point) worn them, just because an owner has decided a horse is overweight.

And whoever said that the comparison I gave was cra* was correct, it was a bit naff I must admit but I am at work and quickly replying (whilst I am supposedly working).

 

[Sarah1]

But at some point the horse is surely going to lose it's rugs? So until that day it's going to be used to wearing a rug isn't it?!

 

[AmyMay]

I am just saying that imho it is unfair to strip a horse of its rugs (and means of keeping warm) when it has always (up to that point) worn them,

Applecart, do you horses wear rugs all year round then???