Would you allow your horse to get cold in order to loose weight?

applecart14 said:
I am just saying that imho it is unfair to strip a horse of its rugs (and means of keeping warm) when it has always (up to that point) worn them, just because an owner has decided a horse is overweight.
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You are absolutely right; to strip them off in those circumstances is very unfair, it should be done gradually but it does also reiterate my point earlier that the owner can have no horsemastership skills at all for allowing the horse to become obese in the first place so it will be hard for them to engage a brain at all.
Sometimes, there's a lot to be said for needing a qualification to own horses.
 
amymay said:
Applecart, do you horses wear rugs all year round then???
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I think shes just trying to say that it should never be sudden.. just like feeding etcc.. of course when its warm and they would be hot with a rug on, then def let them go naked! but i think shes just saying, if your horse was in a heavyweight TO with neck all winter, you wouldnt just put it out naked all of a sudden... (could have misread what she said though :p)
 
It's not just the natives that cope with fewer rugs - my "thin skinned TB" actually seems to prefer not to have rugs on and is both a very hot horse and a good doer so he gets the minimum of rugs.

As I said before I had to suddenly remove rugs last Jan due to allergies right in the middle of a snow spell from a horse that had up until that point worn a stable rug at night.
I was a bit worried but they had done the same at the vet college and their stables are really quite draughty and he had survived.

The first few days I was feeling his ear and armpits and worrying but he was fine. His coat fluffed up and stood on end to do the job it was designed to do and he didn't show the slightest sign of being cold.

This winter I have used the absolute minimum and he wears alot less that virtually any other horse on our yard including unclipped natives and IDs.
 
Agreed. I think it's common sense that you'd have started to reduce the weights/amounts by then anyway & obviously with the freakish weather we've had it could have been a blizzard one day & sunny the next in which case you would rug (or not) according to the weather...
I do own a HW as my lad has to have a full clip as come Oct/Nov time his coat is here in full force & he's getting sweaty walking round the block! Poor love! However, once the snow had gone & his clip started growing out a little he was swapped to a MW then to a LW and now is naked as the day he was born & loving it I might add!!!!!!!
 
I wouldn't want a horse to feel cold to the touch, BUT I would let a horse feel the cold weather to keep their weight down. There's a difference.

With my good doer (who is an imported WB, who I'm sure many wouldn't dream of leaving unrugged :p) then reducing her rugs now she's not in work was/is an essential was of keeping her weight off over winter. She only wore a LW/no fill all winter for the rainy periods, and was even naked at times in the snow and frosts. No, I didn't worry about her getting cold, because she is a horse, with a winter coat (a very sleek one actually!) and most crucially she *always* had ab lib forage - THAT is the main way to keep a horse warm, not layers of rugs. It's also the best thing for their gut rather than rugging lots and reducing forage, which is asking for trouble, IMO. I checked her temperature at every feed time and she was always comfortable in her temperature.

Keeping the weight off a good doer you can't ride is very tricky. Mine is on boxrest atm, and I refuse to let her stand without forage at all times, therefore, she doesn't wear a rug, she has a gorgeous summer coat coming through though. :D
 
if your horse was in a heavyweight TO with neck all winter, you wouldnt just put it out naked all of a sudden
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Actually, you may well - bearing in mind the very weird weather we've been having lately:o
 
Yes I would do this. I almost wish I had a horse which needed to be stripped of its rugs to lose a few pounds than a skinny tb who could do with being drip fed spring grass!
I do think generally people over feed & over rug. I do think people at my yard are a bit mental! We have a shire which is always a bit on the large side. Took ages to convince owner he didnt need rugging. He isn't rugged but is fed twice a day & comes into 2 haynets stuffed with carrots!!
The 2 connies are not rugged now but owner thinks her theory of leaving them a handful of hay to last all night is the best way they'll manage their weight.
Everyone else thinks they're horses are like babies & need at least 2 rugs when it gets cold. I even rang one up (incidentally one of my best friends..despite a very different approach to horse ownership!) to tell her horse was roasting & was rolling around desparate for a rug off. She said he'll be fine, its better than him being cold!!:eek:

Anyhow, horses are all different, some need rugging & feeding for weight, others need them taking away to avoid obesity & laminitis problems. I really wouldnt have a problem with taking rugs off - they aren't babies & are perfectly capable of warming themselves up from the inside.
 
I think the problem here was that the horse maybe did not need all those rugs in the first place, for the first time with my veteran mare I just put on a l/w rain sheet all winter. And for the first time I think she has come out of winter looking great, I took her rug off 1 month ago and her winter coat came out in handfulls.

And my N/F and shettie do not know the luxury of rugs I bought them some for emergencies but they are still in the wrappers stored away, and they only had 18 bales of hay during heavy snow. The N/F has still come out of winter chubby and now the field if fenced in half to prevent even more weight gain.

Yes you never really heard of lami 25 years ago but cushings as been around for as long as the horse has, but years ago when an old pony grew a long coat and dropped belly etc, people just believed that was symtoms of old age and a lot of times it is. But we now know with a simple blood test that cushings is more common than you would think, and in most cases managable.
 
I wouldn't do it full stop. I'm on a diet, but I'm not about to freeze myself to lose weight! Don't think its very effective if you ask me! If the horse is overweight, the first thing she should do is turn him out 24/7 anyway.
 
MagicMelon said:
I wouldn't do it full stop. I'm on a diet, but I'm not about to freeze myself to lose weight! Don't think its very effective if you ask me! If the horse is overweight, the first thing she should do is turn him out 24/7 anyway.
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But what if your horse is on box rest, like mine, and is piling on the pounds???
 
MagicMelon said:
I wouldn't do it full stop. I'm on a diet, but I'm not about to freeze myself to lose weight! Don't think its very effective if you ask me! If the horse is overweight, the first thing she should do is turn him out 24/7 anyway.
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Not sure that turning out 24/7 onto spring grass will necessarily help weight loss apart from the fact there are so many reasons from laminitis to injury to yard policy why this may not be an option.
 
Yes I would provided the horse had something to chew on such as straw/soaked hay. Better IMO to lose some weight this way than upping the excersise on joints/feet that are already over-loaded.
 
MagicMelon said:
I wouldn't do it full stop. I'm on a diet, but I'm not about to freeze myself to lose weight! Don't think its very effective if you ask me! If the horse is overweight, the first thing she should do is turn him out 24/7 anyway.
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Turning out does not slim them down though!

Our old (24) native x pony does far better being out 24/7 with hay and hard feed, than he ever did when he was stabled on more hay rations. Stabling him keeps him slim, not the other way round! :)
 
our stables are inside (block)
took my HW cobs off last night
he was VERY warm and starting to sweat in his LW

whipped it off for the night got girl who turns out to check him this morning and he was fine

i wouldnt to the point in shivering though.
 
Im doing it at the moment. Jed's summer coat still isnt through completely so he may get chilly.

He's kept his weight really well this winter but id rather he go into Spring looking a little lean than being too fat and risk having problems later on.

Cruel to be kind and all that!
 
I agree with the statement of rug according to how the horse feels. I always check my horses' level of warmth before deciding what rugs they get, plus checking the forecast for an idea of what the weather will be like until they're next checked.

I live in the Shetland Isles (very far north of Scotland).Our winter weather is traditionally VERY windy with regular 70mph gales, windchill dropping the temperature to well below freezing. We are in the middle of the north sea so very exposed.

Both my horses are thoroughbred sporthorse types (quarter welsh and quarter connie respectively) and they have lived out all winter (unclipped) with 24hour access to a double shelter/ stable and have rarely needed more than medium weight rugs (200g) on. I have never once known them to be cold. They got ad lib haylage and 2 small high fibre feeds a day (small scoop speedibeet, half scoop mix and a handful of chaff)

I do think alot of horses get over-rugged but I would far rather have them slightly chilly than risk them getting laminitis as others have said. At the moment they are naked as long as its dry but do still get lightweight rugs on at night (current night time temps between 3C and 8C)- its currently dry with no wind so this would be reviewed if that changed. They are far happier unrugged and just being horses, not pampered pets.

Only down side is the amount of hair being shed at the moment :)

They are both good doers and have maintained weight well and have had glossy coats over the winter and as our grass is shortly going to be coming through (Spring is usually a good few weeks behind the rest of the UK) will be stripgrazed in the next couple of weeks. Neither can afford to put on any weight- I was hoping the coloured particularly would have lost a bit more over the winter but he's a stubborn b*gger!
 
I do understand the comments about allowing the horse to get fat in the first place... but in my area you are pretty limited to livery yards, you can either have a postage stamp size individual grazing on full livery or a huge field with loads and loads of grass - and the horses are turned out at 7am or not at all.

We would all love to have our own land and stables and do exactly what we want but this is very often not possible, especially when people have to leave for work at 6.30 am and do not get home till gone 6pm.
 
I've been leaving my mare naked in her stable at night. Its been getting down to about 4 degrees at night in the barn I think. I was always told that horses are designed to warm themselves up, not cool themselves down so I think over rugging is more cruel than under rugging. There are some horses on my yard that are still in a fleece and stable rug during the day and its been about 15 degrees outside so would be hotter in the barn!! The fat will be warmth for them and if they are eating hay. I wouldnt be worried.
 
Wow, pages of replies! But im going to be naughty and not read them ;)

I have nothing against it BUT with some conditions. You cant just whip a horses rugs off when its used to them, that is cruel. A gradual de-rugging is needed. I would also use a rug when wet and windy because thats when horses get miserable. But if the horse is acclimatised and then just a LW no fill turnout is used when wet and windy then yes, thats the best way to get rid of fat. I have a TB living out 24/7 and all shes worn all winter is a LW rug, otherwise she would be huge come spring and because shes retired theres no other way of getting rid of the fat and it would be a major health risk. I cant cut down her food anymore so using her fat rather than rugs to keep warm is the best way to manage her weight. She also has shelter by hedges in all directions.

So in principle, yes, i would let a horse get cold to lose weight but it must be done considerately.
 
I think its perfectly acceptable. My TB has been unrugged for the past month in the hope that she would lose a few pounds as she's slightly heavier than I would like. Unfortunately she seems to cope extremely well without rugs and hasn't lost any weight as yet - proof that she is more than capable of keeping herself warm!
 
With regard to the incidence of laminitis and cushings many years ago, there were certainly less animals with laminitis about. Cushings has always been around, but it was always a disease of the old horse, and 20 years ago, you would be able to count on one hand the cases in your area. In fact, I know that any horse in our area that had it was known around all the yards. Nowadays, it's a disease of the younger horse, infact, I know someone who has lost all her horses and ponies bar one to it, all under the age of 18. The one similarity, they were all overweight. My vet agrees that there seems to be some kind of trigger in obese ponies that can cause cushings.
I have had horses all my life, 38 years, and have only ever had one in my care with cushings, and he had it before he came to end his days with us. He never had laminitis though. I have probably had over 30 horses/ponies in that time, and not one has had laminitis.
In my view, cushings is seen as the cause of laminitis, when in many cases I think the cushings can be preventable in the first instance by keeping a check on your horses weight. Obesity can cause insulin resistance, linked to both laminitis and cushings.
That is not to say that cushings is only going to strike the obese horse, but I think it's prevalance would be diminished if there were not so many fat horses around.
 
I had mine turned out with no rug one winter and just a blanket in the stable at night. Then I had him trace clipped and thought he should have a rain sheet and a slightly thicker night rug and he put on lots of weight even though he was getting the same feed.
So putting them out without a rug in winter is a good way of getting them to loose weight.

Regarding the cushings/laminitis thing. Cushings always was a disease of old animals (isn't it something to do with the pituitary gland?). There is some research that sort of links laminitis with certains aspects of the human disease of diabetes, which again is more likely with overweight and diet, i.e. too much sugar.
 
We keep our horses on an exposed hillside in the penines, none are clipped. During the winter they were out for over 12 hours and stabled at night. The elderly mare (28ish) is no longer a good doer and so was fed alfalfa oil, good hay and ready grass, with feeds of mashed grass nuts. She was only rugged in the very worst of the weather and has come through the winter in fine fettle. The other two were fed a mixture of good hay and clean staw, only rugged when out in wet, windy weather, they too have come through the winter looking well, but not too podgy. Another mare recently joined them, put on lbs in a week, so they have been taken off the 'spring field' and those that are ok weights are being brought in for more hay and a mixture of hay and staw is being fed in the field. The new mare will not be wearing a rug, she is carrying more than enough weight to insulate herself!
 
Well my answer to that one has to be if I wouldn't do it to my kids thenI wouldn't do it to my horse and if I found my kids to be over weight I'd do something about it like look at diet and exercise. Self explanatory really!
 
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