Would you breed from a mare in which you didnt know its parentage?

J

jack9

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 July 2007
Messages
1,039
Visit site
hope ive used the right word there :D

Just to clear it up - im not even considering this for 2/3 years and the foal will be for me to keep....!

i want to affiliate her BD, therefore it would be to a dressage stallion.

thanks :)
 
I have and I still do!

My mare, Ellie is an unregistered ???? I have no real idea what breeds she has in her but she has given me 3 cracking foals!

The latest is by Millenium (Hobgoblins stud and I can't recommend him or them highly enough) and was graded at the BEF Futurity series at 8 weeks old as a 1st Premium with a vet score of 8.75.

Don't think I am supposed to post pics but.......

Aged 8 weeks at Futurity
PICT12763-1.jpg


Taken this week aged 16 weeks
PICT13608.jpg


PICT13606.jpg


So if you mare has the conformation, attitude etc then I would say don't let the fact she has no registered pedigree hold you back..
 
what a lovely foal!!! (and mare!)!....

thanks for posting :) we think shes warmblood x and i have a queue (im not kidding) of people wanting to buy her.....

shes got fantastic paces and a real laid back attitude to life. My plan is to compete fr the next 2 years while im at uni and then put her in foal...hopefully to a good stallion to give me a good prospect in several years time.
 
Have you got any photos?

I know lots of people will say don't breed without the pedigree but my unregistered mare (Ellie) has so far produced better quality foals than my fully papered one!
 
Yes, but only for private reasons, not for the open market. As a buyer, I do not want to buy from over bred/ over produced youngstock. would rather go for something fresh, with good conformation, excellent temperment and with a special something.
 
Yes as long as you are prepared for a throwback! I had a 17.1 middle/heavyweight born to a 16.1 light/middleweight mother from a 16.2 middleweight father with Shire way back in his ancestry. He had a half brother of 18 hands with another mare!!!
 
thanks for the replies :D

even if it looked like a sack of c*ap to everyone else - he/she would still be becautiful in my eyes :D

would be intrested to see what you would put to her.....

*digs out pics*
 
i don;t know my mares parentage - but she;s proven herself in temperament, ability and in comps inc showing so confo is not too bad either ;)
id breed from her for myself - but not for sale...
not saying that i will ;)
 
Yes...I have and will continue to do so as long as the mare herself is quality and proven in herself....for example, my filly Saffy's dam Gwen is a Welsh D....we know that....but her papers were lost and despite lots of searching have not been able to track it down. However, as a competition horse she proved herself as a superb hunter, JRN horse and more and then after injury turned to breeding. In order to give her lack of breeding a 'hook' she was put to suitable coloured stallions and has more than proven herself as a broodmare...having had 5 of the most stunningly marked coloured foals who are all very talented and have mum's excellent temperament and work ethic!

This is Gwen and if you scroll down you will see her foals....2 of which are county show ring winners and one of which has been sold to Sweden as a show horse!
http://equinoxsporthorses.yolasite.com/gwyneth-star.php
 
id probably put her to a warmblood... as i want dressage and that seems (imo) to be the best idea....

but i do want something flashy - hence waiting a couple of years to save up for a good stud fee.

ets - temprament - shes fantastic... laid back/chilled in most ways but does spook at stupid things - but thats the baby in her.
(hence why im not even considering this for at least a year to let her mature mentally and physically)....

I want to also spend the next year/two getting her out at dressage and i want to affiliate her before i foal her lol!
 
Yes, my mare has ''unknown'' breeding but so far has had one super foal by Johnson (Jazz x Flemmingh) who is totally stunning and my vet and physio keep telling me he has a super movement, so i guess he must do! My mare is a cob x tb but she has competed at medium level BD. I, like you, wanted to breed my dressage horse for the future, so hopefully i have!

Mare is now in foal again to Vince (Gribaldi x Hofnar) but this one will be for sale unless its a filly :)
 
Tempi said:
Yes, my mare has ''unknown'' breeding but so far has had one super foal by Johnson (Jazz x Flemmingh) who is totally stunning and my vet and physio keep telling me he has a super movement, so i guess he must do! My mare is a cob x tb but she has competed at medium level BD. I, like you, wanted to breed my dressage horse for the future, so hopefully i have!

Mare is now in foal again to Vince (Gribaldi x Hofnar) but this one will be for sale unless its a filly :)
Click to expand...

thanks, really helpful :)

Theres loads of stallions i like, but not sure which would complement the mare..!...

I know colour isnt priority (temprament is).... id love a chestnut or black foal :D

colt or filly and even if it had the resembelance of shrek it would have a home fo rlife with me - just like my mare will :)
 
I would for my own reasons (and have this year), but only from a mare with a proven performance history, a good stamp and talented herself, and personally I would stick to closed studbook - i.e. TB or Trakehner to limit the possibility of getting a throwback.
I have put my old competition mare to a TB this year - I have owned her for 11 years, she has jumped affiliated, dressage up to medium, is super talented and has a great temperament, so I would like to see what she produces. Any foals she has however will stay here and be produced - not sold.
 
Touchwood said:
I would for my own reasons (and have this year), but only from a mare with a proven performance history, a good stamp and talented herself, and personally I would stick to closed studbook - i.e. TB or Trakehner to limit the possibility of getting a throwback.
I have put my old competition mare to a TB this year - I have owned her for 11 years, she has jumped affiliated, dressage up to medium, is super talented and has a great temperament, so I would like to see what she produces. Any foals she has however will stay here and be produced - not sold.
Click to expand...

thanks for replying :)

i like sir donnerhall.... and loadsss more...

when i looked his stud fee was between 1-2k depending on the type of erm service offered lol.

I dont know the first thing about breeding - hence why im waiting a few years to get my mare affilaited and as far as we can go as a team... then i would be happy to pay 1/2k for a good stud fee to get a nice baby for myself :)
 
You dont necessarily have to pay a massive stud fee to throw a decent foal. I only paid £500 for 32 straws (!) of frozen semen from Johnson (direct from Haras De Lavie) 4 years ago as he was relatively unproven then. Now i believe his stud fee is around the £1000 mark for a lot less straws (i think just one dose in fact).

I spent ages choosing a stallion, but focused on the younger less proven stallions - i like to think ive got a good eye for a horse and i know what i like and what i dont. I also knew what was going to compliment my mare and what wouldnt. There are a lot of stallions i like but most of them i wouldnt use on my mare as they arent suitable.

You need to be very critical of your mare and then go for a stallion that accentuates (sp) all her bad points in the hope that you will get a ''better'' model of your mare. I know that my mare has short front legs, is long backed and slighty bum high (even though shes won at the Winters etc) so i chose a stallion that threw shorter backed, leggy uphill foals.
 
Tempi said:
You dont necessarily have to pay a massive stud fee to throw a decent foal. I only paid £500 for 32 straws (!) of frozen semen from Johnson (direct from Haras De Lavie) 4 years ago as he was relatively unproven then. Now i believe his stud fee is around the £1000 mark for a lot less straws (i think just one dose in fact).

I spent ages choosing a stallion, but focused on the younger less proven stallions - i like to think ive got a good eye for a horse and i know what i like and what i dont. I also knew what was going to compliment my mare and what wouldnt. There are a lot of stallions i like but most of them i wouldnt use on my mare as they arent suitable.

You need to be very critical of your mare and then go for a stallion that accentuates (sp) all her bad points in the hope that you will get a ''better'' model of your mare. I know that my mare has short front legs, is long backed and slighty bum high (even though shes won at the Winters etc) so i chose a stallion that threw shorter backed, leggy uphill foals.
Click to expand...

^ thats why i cant even consider it for a few years... as i wouldnt know where to begin starting on my mares bad points....

(she not perfect in my eyes lol - just dont know where to say x could be improved etc...)

The only thing id be really specific about i sthe colour (which i know is wrong..!).... but realistically id like something bigger.... (16+) shes 15.2ish.

I just need to realise her bad points, then over the next 2? years find a stallion to improve her points.....

the little i can spend the better on stud fee obv. but in a couple of years id be happy to spend the money for a good, proven stud.

:)
 
i think there is always a risk when breeding for something specific that you are not going to end up with what you want even if you know the pedigrees, if you don't then the risk is bigger. Are you willing to take that risk?

For example i have a 13.2 nf with a pedigree going back to 1600 (he used to be a stallion) though most of his chidren are similar size or a little bigger than him he has produced with a registered NF mare of a similar size to himself a 15.1 horse so totally not what was expected! He has also produced a 12.2 again with medium size pony.

If you would be happy with whatever you got and don't plan to sell on then fine but if you want a flashy dressage horse and would be disappointed if you got something different then you might be better off going out and buying a ready made foal. After all if you are not going to sell the offspring then a lifetime is a long time and costs a lot to be keeping a horse that is not what you really wanted.
 
Unfortunately you really cant predict how big they are going to be, also with a smaller mare you dont want to use a stallion that is too big IMO as you can get a higher risk of complications.

My mare is 16'1 and stallion was 17hh, my 2 1/2yr old is currently the same height as my mare!! So think he is going to make around the stallions hieight which would be nice as i am 6ft. However i did go into breeding open minded in that if the foal did turn out to be too small etc then you need to be prepared to sell, and in fact even as a yearly Jupi was very small and i nearly sold him as didnt think he would make the height, then suddenly in his 2nd year he has shot up!
 
No because I'm breeding to sell, I don't think you can make enough from something with 1/2 parantage unknown, I wouldn't want to risk a throwback and I wouldn't be breeding with top level comp in mind which is where I want my foals to end up, although I do appreciate most will end up mid-level due to reasons beyond my control ie. the potential purchaser's lack of talent/funds etc.

That doesn't mean however that I don't belive in it, it is possible to breed to sell if you know your market and target appropriately and select the stallion very very carefully.

If breeding a keeper then I dont see a problem at all, as long as you know you'll just be happy to get a healthy foal, whatever it's ability/talent.

Before anyone has a go - I know there are horses out there at top level that have unknown or unrecorded breeding but lets face it, the majority are purpose bred, and a lot of them fall short of their potential too.
 
SO1 said:
i think there is always a risk when breeding for something specific that you are not going to end up with what you want even if you know the pedigrees, if you don't then the risk is bigger. Are you willing to take that risk?

For example i have a 13.2 nf with a pedigree going back to 1600 (he used to be a stallion) though most of his chidren are similar size or a little bigger than him he has produced with a registered NF mare of a similar size to himself a 15.1 horse so totally not what was expected! He has also produced a 12.2 again with medium size pony.

If you would be happy with whatever you got and don't plan to sell on then fine but if you want a flashy dressage horse and would be disappointed if you got something different then you might be better off going out and buying a ready made foal. After all if you are not going to sell the offspring then a lifetime is a long time and costs a lot to be keeping a horse that is not what you really wanted.
Click to expand...

good points, thanks for replying :)

tbh even if it looked like shrek id be happy... :D and still keep him/her but if i breed her to a good stallion the chances of a good foal are increased - but never guaranteed... but i wont breed rubbish. If for any reason i ever had to sell (and god knows id kill to make sure that didnt happen!)...then at least i could sell a (hopefully)... quality horse to a good home.

Tempi said:
Unfortunately you really cant predict how big they are going to be, also with a smaller mare you dont want to use a stallion that is too big IMO as you can get a higher risk of complications.

My mare is 16'1 and stallion was 17hh, my 2 1/2yr old is currently the same height as my mare!! So think he is going to make around the stallions hieight which would be nice as i am 6ft. However i did go into breeding open minded in that if the foal did turn out to be too small etc then you need to be prepared to sell, and in fact even as a yearly Jupi was very small and i nearly sold him as didnt think he would make the height, then suddenly in his 2nd year he has shot up!
Click to expand...

shes 15.2 so upto 16.0ish? is acceptable? she has yet to fill out so theres a possibility she could be bigger....(see pics)....
we havent officially measured her yet!!!

im 5'7 and can ride anything 14hh + so tbh as long as i dont get a 13.1 weed, i should be ok :D

hand on heart i woudlnt sell as a baby. If the foal was a munter i will then (and i will make sure of this) be in a position to keep my mare working.. and bring the foal on if necessary to sell as a 3 year old.

were talking 5/6 years away by then - the mare will not even be 10, so have many years left with her (i hope)! :)
 
Navalgem said:
No because I'm breeding to sell, I don't think you can make enough from something with 1/2 parantage unknown, I wouldn't want to risk a throwback and I wouldn't be breeding with top level comp in mind which is where I want my foals to end up, although I do appreciate most will end up mid-level due to reasons beyond my control ie. the potential purchaser's lack of talent/funds etc.

That doesn't mean however that I don't belive in it, it is possible to breed to sell if you know your market and target appropriately and select the stallion very very carefully.

If breeding a keeper then I dont see a problem at all, as long as you know you'll just be happy to get a healthy foal, whatever it's ability/talent.

Before anyone has a go - I know there are horses out there at top level that have unknown or unrecorded breeding but lets face it, the majority are purpose bred, and a lot of them fall short of their potential too.
Click to expand...


nice to hear from another POV.... :)

if i were breeding to sell i would have bought a broodmare with known lines etc... BUT, i still have to be realistic... if i ever had to sell for reasons beyond my control (lets face it everyone can say "i will ever sell etc" bu you never know).... i still want a good quality foal if the worst happened.

I want to see how the mare in question goes this year and next before i decide what to do... id like a foal for me to keep and carry on with. Shes such a lovely mare with imo talent. She has a good little pop on her but i honestly think her true talent is in dressage - hence why im going for this as im rubbish at jumping anyhow :) :D
 
jack9 said:
nice to hear from another POV.... :)

if i were breeding to sell i would have bought a broodmare with known lines etc... BUT, i still have to be realistic... if i ever had to sell for reasons beyond my control (lets face it everyone can say "i will ever sell etc" bu you never know).... i still want a good quality foal if the worst happened.

I want to see how the mare in question goes this year and next before i decide what to do... id like a foal for me to keep and carry on with. Shes such a lovely mare with imo talent. She has a good little pop on her but i honestly think her true talent is in dressage - hence why im going for this as im rubbish at jumping anyhow :) :D
Click to expand...

I think from what you've said it'd be no problem to breed from your mare :) Lets just say not everyone is like you and some people will breed from a mare simply because it's a mare, never mind whether her conf is good or whether she has any talent whatsoever, and when these sorts of people choose a stallion they'll generally use a cheap, ungraded one from down the road (which may be nice but usually not) from whatsits field.... lol

My reply was answering your original question, whether I'd breed from a mare with unknown breeding.

If I was in your situation and from the points you've said then yes I would :)

HTH good luck and enjoy husband shopping for her!
 
Navalgem said:
I think from what you've said it'd be no problem to breed from your mare :) Lets just say not everyone is like you and some people will breed from a mare simply because it's a mare, never mind whether her conf is good or whether she has any talent whatsoever, and when these sorts of people choose a stallion they'll generally use a cheap, ungraded one from down the road (which may be nice but usually not) from whatsits field.... lol

My reply was answering your original question, whether I'd breed from a mare with unknown breeding.

If I was in your situation and from the points you've said then yes I would :)

HTH good luck and enjoy husband shopping for her!
Click to expand...

thanks :) i do love this mare to bits and i know with breeding its a risk...but one id be willing to take when and if the times right..

i have met a few epeople who just breed from the stud in the next field and try flog it fora ton more than its worth.... :D

Im trying to trace her a bit more to find out about her - i now have the breeders number but for some god unknown reason im apprehensive about ringing!!

(probably because i found it through google... :D )...lol.
 
Lol, get them rung! I got a letter a couple of months ago from a horse I'd sold as my name was on his passport, I was totally thrilled to hear how he was doing and I hadn't bred him, I'd be even more pleased if it was from a horse I'd bred! (You don't have to tell them where you got the number from! ;) )

I had a tb mare, whom I thought the world of, I bred her to a BSJA silver disk stallion with good breeding, the resultant foal was lovely but he's a walking disaster, I didn't give him a stable name until he was nearly a year old because he was so accident prone...and I called him Kaos! I think his vet bills stand me at over 5k, he's only 4! :p
 
Navalgem said:
Lol, get them rung! I got a letter a couple of months ago from a horse I'd sold as my name was on his passport, I was totally thrilled to hear how he was doing and I hadn't bred him, I'd be even more pleased if it was from a horse I'd bred! (You don't have to tell them where you got the number from! ;) )

I had a tb mare, whom I thought the world of, I bred her to a BSJA silver disk stallion with good breeding, the resultant foal was lovely but he's a walking disaster, I didn't give him a stable name until he was nearly a year old because he was so accident prone...and I called him Kaos! I think his vet bills stand me at over 5k, he's only 4! :p
Click to expand...

i should ring... i might just bite the bullet and do it now :o

i do keep in touch with the lady i bought her from (im her third home), and she was happy to get emails etc - ive also invited her to come watch a show - upto her if she wants to reply/turn up i dont mind in the slightest :)

5k? flipping heck! ouchies!....

I know when i do breed i will have a queue for the foal as a few people already want my mare :D lol!!... they will be very gutted when they realise its going nowhere lol :D
 
jack9 said:
i should ring... i might just bite the bullet and do it now :o

i do keep in touch with the lady i bought her from (im her third home), and she was happy to get emails etc - ive also invited her to come watch a show - upto her if she wants to reply/turn up i dont mind in the slightest :)

5k? flipping heck! ouchies!....

I know when i do breed i will have a queue for the foal as a few people already want my mare :D lol!!... they will be very gutted when they realise its going nowhere lol :D
Click to expand...

Yes you should :D, I bet they'll be pleased to hear from you and please let us know what you find out :)

Yeah it is a bit ouch! He's very talented though full of bumps and lumps, his healing is abysmal, he got a scrape on the hock and vet gave me £100 worth of anti-biotics for a 5 day course, no £20 of noridine for him! lol, he's got a reputation somewhat. I'd never ever get my money back if i wee to sell him, not that I would.

Lol, maybe you should breed her twice then, a keeper and one to sell - sounds like you could auction the one to sell with your friends! :) lol
 
Navalgem said:
Yes you should :D, I bet they'll be pleased to hear from you and please let us know what you find out :)

Yeah it is a bit ouch! He's very talented though full of bumps and lumps, his healing is abysmal, he got a scrape on the hock and vet gave me £100 worth of anti-biotics for a 5 day course, no £20 of noridine for him! lol, he's got a reputation somewhat. I'd never ever get my money back if i wee to sell him, not that I would.

Lol, maybe you should breed her twice then, a keeper and one to sell - sounds like you could auction the one to sell with your friends! :) lol
Click to expand...

flippin heck he's a bit accident prone then? lol!!?

i rung.... she said that the breeder is out (but i got the right number :D ) and she said she would get back to me :)

apparantly she *thinks* she could have some standardbred in her... (whats that breed like?! :o )

im tempted to breed her next april tbh :o but... i really want to affiliate her first lol! and were not there yet and i think it could be a setback... however - i have 6 months yet if she needs time out then so be it and i have to get my butt into gear and learn some breeding info :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top