Would you breed from this?

Irishcobs

Irishcobs

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Hattie's stable mate is a very grumpy/agressive mare, she is agressive with humans, horses, everything basically. Now I know she could be a top competition horse but what if she passes her temp on to her baby? Would you really want another agressive horse?
 
I'm not sure, I didn't ask. But I've never heard of a horse that was nasty to both horses and humans that got that way from bad experiences.
 
alot of horses can be to be honest i used to work with exrace horses and one of the mares was very aggressive to both, she had great blood lines and her half brother was a champ but as the woman is getting on a bit she decided she didnt want the hasstle of breeding
 
Probably sounds a stupid question but is she still grumpy and aggressive if she is put in with something else that is high up the pecking order or does she bow down to the boss? If it's the latter, then I might think carefully about it but she would have to go to a complete dobbin that is virtually guaranteed to throw nice tempered things.
If she is still an old boot then I wouldn't dream of breeding from the cranky old thing, personally for me, just not worth the aggro' she brings with her, but if she were to be in a professional yard at all times that really know what they're doing with things like that, if she is well bred enough and has a good working record, then it might be worth it - still to something with a fantastic temper though, wouldn't dream of putting her to something sharp. My gut reaction is NO, not for me.
 
I personally would not breed from her. What if she was aggressive to her foal? Handling a biddable mare and foal can be difficult at times, so imagine trying to put on a foal slip when the mare was being bolshy about people being in her stable. She would really need Olympic standard bloodlines to make it worth the hassle in my opinion!
 
She's not allowed in the field with anything, she will want to be top horse and fight her way to the top.
I know nothing about her so she could be a top racehorse/competition horse, but at the end of the day someone has to handle her and foal.
 
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She's not allowed in the field with anything, she will want to be top horse and fight her way to the top.
I know nothing about her so she could be a top racehorse/competition horse, but at the end of the day someone has to handle her and foal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally then if that's the case, then I would not want her bred from at all, certainly not for me to handle and I don't class myself as a wimp but I hate anything with a dodgy temper like hers!
 
No same here, I was really surprised when the stud told me about her.
We thought long and hard about breeding from Hattie as she is dominate with other mares (bad experience when she was younger) but is such a sweetie with Gyp (gelding) and people. I can do anything with her, have my bosses 3 yr old brush her and sit on her, so we made the decision that with a brilliant temp stallion, she hopefully won't pass it on to her foal.
 
I think you have to look at the 'why' question - i.e. why are you breeding and what do you want to produce? If you want a sweet natured pet horse for an amateur owner, then no. If she is a very talented show jumper, for example, then a professional rider won't care so much what she is like in the stable etc.
I think people who breed should think carefully about the future life, and destination of the stock they breed.
S : )
 
Personally I would say no, but thats from my experience. My friend has a very well bred WB mare who has a serious attitude problem. Shes like a jekyll and hyde. One minute she will be quite nice and the rest of the time she is foul. She will happily go for you through the bars of a stable wall, but as soon as a headcollar or bridle is on shes a lamb.
She had her first foal then I was given them both. I sent the mare back at weaning as she had attacked my mum, then attacked me. I had heard she had attacked a child on the yard I was on but due to the fact he was annoying her in the field when he was told to keep out. I thought it was due to her being a new mum but it wasnt.
She has bred 3 other foals since mine. I dont know what her other foals have turned out like, but mine has a bit of an attitude like her mums (only a bit nothing in comparison to her mum). She has her moments but doesnt really go for you as such. She knows its wrong but can be bad if shes in a bad mood.
Mine has lovely breeding and movement and I wouldnt be without her now, but I wouldnt want to have another like her, especially after seeing the difference between her and Ebis foal Willow, I certainly wouldnt bred from my friends mare.
 
I think they are taking a risk, which we all do anyway without this added problem. I have noticed a distinct difference in the colts born 1yr & 3days apart. Both mares are friendly & easy to deal with, but Mo in particular is very people orientated. When she was with a group of mares she always came over to say hello. Yet her foal is the least friendly of the 2. Prince always came over when you entered his stable & sometimes we had to catch him so we could catch his mum. He was born in the field & was up on his feet when we caught them & bought them in. He has always been easy to deal with & has shown a bit of temper at times but nothing serious & we take the expression on his face as a sulk. Giz on the other hand though born in the field was still being pushed out so had people on hand straight away, & had to be man handled into a wheelbarrow to be bought up to the stable, (not my idea!!). So he had people with him right from the word go, yet he hardly ever comes over, & when being led to & forth from the field thinks nothing of having a buck or rearing up at you. He has even had a pop with his gums! I have to say that I am beginning to wonder if the KOD temperament has travelled down the line to this little monster! Obviously there is nothing to say that Mo does not have some ancestor that was also on the sharp side, but her son is nothing like her & just proves what a gamble breeding is. He is only 2wks but I think he is going to produce more problems then Prince or any of the others ever did.
 
No I wouldn't.
There used to be a stallion up North who one of my pupils used on her mare, who was slightly iffy tempered herself.
The result was appallingly bad tempered and we heard some years later the stud had put the stallion down as so many of his stock had the same thing..
We had a TB mare here of unknown breeding after her owner dumped her on us and didn't pay his bills for three and a half years, who had a temperament fault, not due I think to breeding but mans' behaviour towards her (she was fired and attacked any vet who came within scenting distance afterwards)
We daren't take the risk of her attacking anyone who smelled vet like so she was euthanised.
I often wished I could have euthanised the vet instead, so if you know an Irish vet near Tewksbury, give him a swift slap from me....
 
No, I wouldn't. Temperament is paramount, as is soundness in breeding stock. Why would anyone want to breed from an aggressive mare? Apart from the risk of the temperament being passed on to her offspring, I wouldn't want to get in there and help her should she have a difficult foaling! I read in Horse and Hound only the other week that a groom had been kicked in the head and killed whilst trying to help an aggressive mare foaling - not worth the risk in my opinion.
 
It would depend what I was trying to produce (competition horse or reliable all-rounder) and to what extent the mare had proven talent.

Also whether she is a bit grumpy and bossy, or completely psychotic.

A lot of the best competition horses are tricky. The ones I would avoid like the plague would be the un-talented tricky ones.
 
I don't think on info provided you can reliably say.. and would in most instances say absolutely NO but we have one or two 'sharp' mares who breed superb and easy handled foals... they are just 'sharp' to me perhaps vivicous and nasty to others??
pyschos no..... but a proven talented mare perhaps gone stale or been previously poorly managed??? ...
At the end of the day I truely believe you make a horse through management and training... the best are easily ruined through no fault of their own..
and no I don't breed looneys... but we also have placid mares who get quite agressively defensive (for no reason) when in foal..
 
i spoke to someone at the SHBS at badminton this year and she said a foal is a raw material, and you make it wat u want. if you put her to a stallion with a good temp which he passes on to his offspring and you are prepared to work with the foal then why shouldnt you breed from her. its not as if every grumpy horse in this world has inherited it from its dam. my mare is nothing like her daughter , my mares a hot head and the daughters completely laid back. i seem to be one of the only people being positive! i think i have too much faith in horses! let us know wat u do.
 
i forgot too say.... does that mean every bitchy women in the world cant have children? exactly! cos that would mean that the human population would deminish very quickly if that were the case! u work on children u can work on foals.
 
I agree with Scare McClare (she's my daughter!); the foal in quesion is NOTHING like her dam. which my daughter adores beyond belief, but which she calls "psycho mare"...her daughter (by Primitive Rising) is totally laid back! She's not like her dam at all (who is currently at stud 7 years on from foal No 1, this time to Primitive Proposal) who just want to race! This to me is proof that a mare's temperament is NOT necessarily passed on to its offspring!
 
Because a foal is with its dam 24/7 until it is weaned the temperament of the dam is often more reflected in the foal than is that of the sire (ie its learns how to relate to humans, other horses, stable manners etc from her and thus often imitates her behaviour).

OTOH, much of the apparent ill-temper in a mare is actually the result of her being the highly desirable (in a top competition horse anyway) alpha mare in a group, but novice breeders and single mare owners may well be unaware of this and condemn it as a trait that they do not want passed on. However, the foals of alpha mares always get the best grass (becuase that is what she regards as her right) and almost always have more presence and self confidence that those produced by lower ranking herd members which is why such a positive start in life is a good thing for a potential top class horse. Admittedly, for a more all-round horse or one whose athletic capabilities mean that they are destined for a less demanding career such 'touchiness' (which actually often represents itself as natural sensitivity to aids in an adult horse) is not a good thing and if you get two alpha mares in the same herd at the same time then arguments will always arise.

Splitting such mares up is one of the less recognised but still essential skills of stud management and it is a particualrly difficult one to practice when there are a huge number of visiting mares temprarily on site. At least transported semen solves that problem in many cases.
 
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