Would you buy this horse?

No I wouldn't buy him the only thing I would be doing is retiring him. If you want to pursue a career in the show jumping world but are tight on funds for good horses that enjoy their job whom are expensive for that reason then surely you are better off looking for a job with a top show jumper & or stable and hopefully getting recognised and picking up rides.
 
Amymay Again said:
Including yourself, in light of your initial post.
Click to expand...
That's rather unkind - to me the original post came across as genuine ignorance, i.e. it didn't seem to have occurred to the OP that the horse's behaviours might be due to pain. She seems to be a teenager living in a culture that isn't particularly kind to horses, so I can believe that she might have missed out on learning an awareness of pain behaviours.
 
Widgeon said:
That's rather unkind - to me the original post came across as genuine ignorance, i.e. it didn't seem to have occurred to the OP that the horse's behaviours might be due to pain. She seems to be a teenager living in a culture that isn't particularly kind to horses, so I can believe that she might have missed out on learning an awareness of pain behaviours.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is unkind at all. OP clearly states she is looking to use a horse for jumping that a vet has declared unsound and that she herself thinks is unsound, that old red herring 'stiffness' that is simply an alternative and slightly more acceptable way (for some) of describing a clearly unsound horse.

The OP may well be young, she is however very articulate and able to research in some depth issues she has had with another horse and now possibly a new one, so total ignorance is unlikely, but inexperienced and wishful thinking leading to self dilusion is a possiblity.

IMHO that makes it even more encumberant on those of us who are more experienced to point out that her statements about other people taking advantage of animals until the very end does not align with previous posts assuring us what an excellent owner she is and how well looked after her animals are and she does her utmost for their comfort and health.


I appreciate by the standard of horse keeping in the part of world she lives in is definitely not the best, however, OP appears to have educated herself well enough to rise above that low bar on welfare and ownership, for that I congratulate her but I hope we all continue to set things straight when some knowldge seems to be cast aside when it comes to their own ambitions and hopes in horse ownership.
 
mariaandefe said:
its people like you who make this community so toxic :) i didn’t ask for your advice on my own character, so please go take your opinions somewhere else. thank you!
Click to expand...

Thats not how the internet works. But I do understand its hard to hear, and hard to do when other people dont care at all. But you dont need to show jump and you dont need to ride this poor horse. You will be in a different country soon with way more options so you can just wait.

Use the time to ride any horse you can, so long as its sound and work on your other horse. It will go quick and wont cost you anything in terms of progressing, because riding a horse with those irdden issues will wreck your riding as young rider.
 
mariaandefe said:
its people like you who make this community so toxic :) i didn’t ask for your advice on my own character, so please go take your opinions somewhere else. thank you!
Click to expand...
You posted about considering buying a lame, stressed horse to jump (that you are already riding despite this, if I've got the right end of the stick) because you 'must' move up in the sport. You 'mustn't' do anything of the sort. If there are no sound horses available in your price range you should consider that moving on in your sport is not going to be possible right now.
 
mariaandefe said:
its people like you who make this community so toxic :) i didn’t ask for your advice on my own character, so please go take your opinions somewhere else. thank you!
Click to expand...
It's not meant to be cruel or toxic. It's simply a response to two particular posts you've made.

You can't have it both ways (in any ways). You claim to be an excellent owner (and there's absolutely nothing you post to question that. You're clearly very caring).

But then you ask if this is a suitable purchase - a horse with physical issues that should preclude it from being ridden, yet you want it to be a horse to compete. You've ridden it all summer, discounting (apparently) it's discomfort. You further go on to say "people take advantage of horses and animals in general until the very end. Cruel world animals live in."

So my post (clumsily) simply attempts to highlight the dichotomy of your initial post and referred to post. So if my response makes you reflect, then great. You may think more about the physicality of 'the' horse, and the appropriateness of riding something that's lame, whilst asserting that people take advantage of them.
 
Hi op when you say the horse is stiff exactly what do you mean

How does the stiffness present

When is it stiff

is it actually lame and does it wear off during work
 
tristars said:
Hi op when you say the horse is stiff exactly what do you mean

How does the stiffness present

When is it stiff

is it actually lame and does it wear off during work
Click to expand...
Hi,

Honestly from my view, I cannot see him being stiff as my eye isn’t as trained as my vet who sees multiple horses on the daily. The vet said on the right rein on the lunge he is slightly imbalanced (as it says on the clinical report).

No, he is not lame during work.
 
mariaandefe said:
Hi,

Honestly from my view, I cannot see him being stiff as my eye isn’t as trained as my vet who sees multiple horses on the daily. The vet said on the right rein on the lunge he is slightly imbalanced (as it says on the clinical report).

No, he is not lame during work.
Click to expand...
But you said in post 10 that he's incredibly stiff on the right rein. I'm assuming you're feeling that when you ride him.

Did the vet explain to you what exostosis is?
 
irishdraft said:
No I wouldn't buy him the only thing I would be doing is retiring him. If you want to pursue a career in the show jumping world but are tight on funds for good horses that enjoy their job whom are expensive for that reason then surely you are better off looking for a job with a top show jumper & or stable and hopefully getting recognised and picking up rides.
Click to expand...
I have worked with a top showjumper previously, but i plan to start again in the upcoming year
 
Amymay Again said:
But you said in post 10 that he's incredibly stiff on the right rein. I'm assuming you're feeling that when you ride him.

Did the vet explain to you what exostosis is?
Click to expand...
No, I don’t feel him being stiff. I can hear his hind legs ‘cracking’ at a walk, which i asked the vet about, he said it’s due to the instability, and should go away with constant work (strengthening the area) and supplementation. the vet said the exostosis is cosmetic as of now, and has stayed cosmetic for the past 2 years. i know what exostosis is. its relatively small in his problematic region. he also done an ultrasound of the area and said there is no inflammation or any active inflammation tissues of any sort, and also said it doesn’t bother him, but i know that there is obviously the risk of it coming up in 3-4yrs+
 
spacefaer said:
I'd be patient and keep looking.

I'd suggest the "insanely strong" to jump is borne out of either fear or pain (or both)
Personally, from your description of him, I'd be unhappy to ride him for free, let alone buy him.
The only reason I'd buy him would be so that I could make sure he didn't have to jump again.
Click to expand...
This, in spades.

There is no other answer.
 
If you are moving and are planning to work for a show jumpers again, honestly I would just leave it and wait to see what happens in your new country. Are you after a horse to go up the ranks or just this particular one because you want to save him?

His soundness is kind of unclear from your description, but if you are after something that isn't going to break maybe this horse isn't the one.
 
Soundsike he has slightly catchy stifle, upward fixation Where the medial patellar ligament is the problem thats why the vet says it will improve with fitness ie tighten the ligament

The exotisis is bone remodeling or bone on bone growth

It sounds like he could be lacking in suppleness on the right side from lack of good early training which may or may not be contributing to his problems

.
Many good jumpers are over keen hence the tack shop head adornment of gadgets

It's almost impossible to be truly helpful over the Internet

6 months of non competing, letting him relax physically, hacking straight line doing very quiet schooling teaching shoulder in renvers Travers to get him to step under with the inside hinds, combined with ongoing vet support to identify his real problems and eliminate or treat issues as they are found would be fair on the horse and give him a chance
 
From their previous posts there is little or not turnout available for horses in Turkey, backed up by a long term poster who has previously lived in Turkey. It’s a whole different world for keeping horses in, and not to the benefit of the horses.

mariaandefe said:
There is no turnout here in Turkey (sounds awful, I l know…)
Click to expand...
mariaandefe said:
I’m trying to sugarcoat Turkey as a country for horses, but when I say it’s absolute hell, it really is.
I really tried to refrain from saying things like this.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
tristars said:
Soundsike he has slightly catchy stifle, upward fixation Where the medial patellar ligament is the problem thats why the vet says it will improve with fitness ie tighten the ligament

The exotisis is bone remodeling or bone on bone growth

It sounds like he could be lacking in suppleness on the right side from lack of good early training which may or may not be contributing to his problems

.
Many good jumpers are over keen hence the tack shop head adornment of gadgets

It's almost impossible to be truly helpful over the Internet

6 months of non competing, letting him relax physically, hacking straight line doing very quiet schooling teaching shoulder in renvers Travers to get him to step under with the inside hinds, combined with ongoing vet support to identify his real problems and eliminate or treat issues as they are found would be fair on the horse and give him a chance
Click to expand...
Yes that’s it! That’s what the vet said about the stifle.
And yes, the lack of suppleness is most likely contributing to his health problems 100%. The vet also said he must be moving as much as possible.
I’ve moved him to my stable where my horse is, changed his diet plan a bit, massages, lots of grooming, all the little children are looking after him, washing him, playing with him.

With the mental detox I completely agree with you. My trainer says exactly the same thing
 
Tiddlypom said:
From her previous posts there is little or not turnout available for horses in Turkey, backed up by a long term poster who has previously lived in Turkey. It’s a whole different world for keeping horses in, and not to the benefit of the horses.
Click to expand...
Hello again,

I’ve actually found turnout for my horses, thanks! Far away, but I have found it. Let’s not comment on things that I have posted nearly a year ago ;).
Yes, the way people treat horses is horrible. Most people here don’t understand what a ‘horse’ is, they treat it like a bicycle, and that’s how horses like the one i described turn out. However, most ‘top showjumpers and eventer and dressage riders’ treat horses the same way no matter what country they are from. I could list a lot of names coming from the UK and Europe, let’s focus on the people who are actually neglecting and abusing horses, not people who are trying to help horses (who is not actually a rescue case like my first horse) and trying to make the best of what they have.

Let’s not refer to me as ‘her’ or in 3rd person please, it’s quite insensitive
 
An 11 year old jumping horse with upward fixation of the patella is unlikely to improve under the conditions and management you describe. Also from your description the horse is already showing clear signs of pain

Lets cut to the quick here. we've had all the efforts to politely help you, you are now becoming rude and obnoxious in your misguided effort to dismiss anything that doesn't say what you want to hear.

So bottom line, you asked would readers buy this horse, your majority reply is the same as mine. No.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
An 11 year old jumping horse with upward fixation of the patella is unlikely to improve under the conditions and management you describe. Also from your description the horse is already showing clear signs of pain

Lets cut to the quick here. we've had all the efforts to politely help you, you are now becoming rude and obnoxious in your misguided effort to dismiss anything that doesn't say what you want to hear.

So bottom line, you asked would readers buy this horse, your majority reply is the same as mine. No.
Click to expand...

Honestly I’m not reading this poster as rude, in fact for a young poster from a different country think they are quite articulate.

Naive maybe. Influenced by those around them, for sure. But there is nothing to suggest that they aren’t trying to do the right thing ultimately. Can an of us older posters here, hand on heart, say we have never ridden a horse in our younger years that we now wish we hadn’t? If you can say that then good on you. But I can’t say it.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
An 11 year old jumping horse with upward fixation of the patella is unlikely to improve under the conditions and management you describe. Also from your description the horse is already showing clear signs of pain

Lets cut to the quick here. we've had all the efforts to politely help you, you are now becoming rude and obnoxious in your misguided effort to dismiss anything that doesn't say what you want to hear.

So bottom line, you asked would readers buy this horse, your majority reply is the same as mine. No.
Click to expand...
What conditions and management do I describe? My OWN horses lives most likely exactly like your horses, I cannot speak for the rest of them. My horse goes out, my horse gets veterinary treatment, my horse gets dental treatment, my horse eats a balanced diet, my horses health is under control etc. I would do anything and spend any amount of money on my horses to make sure they are happy.

If anyone is being rude and obnoxious it’s you. Attacking me for asking for opinions, as I said I cannot speak for the rest of the horses and how they are treated/live, and I cannot change that for other people.

I have read the replies, I can see what people are saying. There was absolutely no point in your reply unless you’re trying to attack me again.
 
The point of my reply was to you yet again drip feeding more information now telling us your vet told you this horse has UFP. That would have been useful if you had disclosed that information earlier. Each and every response you give is instructing readers what they may comment on and what they may not. Forums do not work like that.

I repeat my answer to your question , No I would not buy this horse.
 
ihatework said:
Honestly I’m not reading this poster as rude, in fact for a young poster from a different country think they are quite articulate.

Naive maybe. Influenced by those around them, for sure. But there is nothing to suggest that they aren’t trying to do the right thing ultimately. Can an of us older posters here, hand on heart, say we have never ridden a horse in our younger years that we now wish we hadn’t? If you can say that then good on you. But I can’t say it.
Click to expand...
I grew up/improved as a rider and owner in the wrong place. I know this and I accept this, I got my first horse from a safari ranch, he was a rescue case he’s now a 120-130 showjumper, but in all the good and all the improvement is the bad things too. When i first came, I was disgusted and I was actually kicked out of my first barn because I was constantly commenting on the welfare of the horses. In the end, you just have to accept that this is the way horses are treated here, and you learn to just pretend you don’t see any of the horrible things happening. I tried educating other people on the way horses should be fed (my mother is certified an equine nutritionist) but they don’t listen, they think they know better. As it was to be expected, my views obviously have started to be mask because I live in a completely different world.

I am moving to Europe soon, but again Europe has its cons, and has its own share of problematic yards with their own views. The only way of staying content and happy is buying your own place, but at the moment I am unfortunately unable to do that financially.
 
ihatework said:
Honestly I’m not reading this poster as rude, in fact for a young poster from a different country think they are quite articulate.

Naive maybe. Influenced by those around them, for sure. But there is nothing to suggest that they aren’t trying to do the right thing ultimately. Can an of us older posters here, hand on heart, say we have never ridden a horse in our younger years that we now wish we hadn’t? If you can say that then good on you. But I can’t say it.
Click to expand...
I disagree. The poster has clearly stated she is wanting this horse to continue her jumping career. Regardless of how well she may believe she keeps her horses, this particular one is not going to do the job she wants, to tell her it is the one is unfair on her given lack of experience and knowledge and even more unfair and cruel to the horse OP describes.

I have ridden several horses I very much regret riding in my youth, but never because they were unsound or unwell, luckily those around me would soon have put me right had I attempted to do so.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
The point of my reply was to you yet again drip feeding more information now telling us your vet told you this horse has UFP. That would have been useful if you had disclosed that information earlier. Each and every response you give is instructing readers what they may comment on and what they may not. Forums do not work like that.

I repeat my answer to your question , No I would not buy this horse.
Click to expand...
I don’t remember every single detail the vet says, especially if we speak in a different language and I have to translate these veterinary words into english.

Every reply is making me remember what other comments the vet made. I only have his clinical report in Turkish, and it’s obviously not as detailed as a conversation would be.
 
ihatework said:
Yes Europe is not all butterflies and roses. All you have to do is google Helgstrand!
We have welfare issues across the board too.
Click to expand...
Honestly! I’m more involved in the showjumping world, and what I’m seeing on social media makes me wonder what happens behind the scenes. Christian Kukuk riding in just draw reins…and Olympian.
I worked with a GP rider as a home rider/flat rider, and let me stay quiet on what I would see…
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top