BBP
Well-Known Member
Here is the back story - I wanted help with my collie pups chase instinct, to make him more reliable around livestock. In May (when puppy was 5 months old) I contacted a sheepdog trainer who advertised kind enjoyable training for dogs that worry, or might be inclined to worry sheep. He told me he could only do a date in August. I asked him to clarify if his training was based on aversive methods. He said in the reply email 'no I do not use aversive methods'. On that basis I booked and paid for a package of 4 training sessions but with only the one date in early august confirmed. These were well over an hours travel each way for me, so i was committed to helping my dog.
I attended the session, my dog was put straight on to a half check collar with was brought right up behind his ears where the pressure points are, and the trainer 'corrected' him using the collar for every little move the dog made. He then flooded him for the entire session, with my dog going ballistic at the trigger (in this case a power tool as the dog is very reactive to the noise). So power tool in one hand and dog held tight on check collar in the other. There are a lot more details aboiut the session I wont go into them all, but that was the gist, and it lasted 3 hours, with my poor puppys eyes popping out, completely stressed out and bewildered and not understanding the rules. I was in tears on several occasions as I was so stressed. Trainer finished the session by saying he liked to sort all of these problems in 6 weeks but that he couldn't do weekends or a week when he was out of the country (I had already said to him on booking that I was only able to do weekends barring this two week period in the summer). He said we would need to flood the dog with the stimulus daily to get results, and not to talk to, play with or stroke to the dog during this training, as we should not allow the dog to be near us unless we want him to do something with us. We left the session with me knowing I would never go back as i hated every second of it and wished i had had the guts to take the dog off him sooner.
So I had 3 unused sessions that I was never going to use as a) the training was not the kind, non-aversive methods advertised and b) he was not able to do weekends when i specifically said that's all the availability i had.
A few days after the session I emailed to thank him for his time and to say that due to the scheduling conflicts and the training not being quite as i had expected would he please mind refunding the remaining 3 sessions. He refused, staying that I had booked the sessions months ago, knowing he only worked with selected clients, and that i had committed to working with him over the long term, and that he had fitted me in last minute without a firm booking (the fact is he had forgotten i had booked in and it was only when we contacted him to ask the address that he said yes he could still fit us in). he stated that he fitted me in ahead of other clients on his waiting list, (when actually he had not written a single session for me into his calendar, so its not like by refunding me I was then taking up slots that he was unable to fill). He also stated that he had had two long drawn out conversations with a behaviourist I was working with (I did not instruct either trainer to do this) and that it was only out of goodwill that he was not charging me extra for this time. He then went on to say that i had known from the outset that he was a distance away from me and that there would be scheduling issues (when i had said i could only do weekends, and he then told me, having taken my money, that he could not do any weekends).
I emailed him three times in August asking for a refund, and have had zero response since the one above stating no refund would be forthcoming. Am I right to chase this? Its not so much the money now (approx £200) but the principle. I feel like he has stolen it from me by accepting it fraudulently for services that were not as described. I would never have booked the sessions if I had known they were aversive based and it annoys me that other people may experience similar. If you agree with aversive training that is one thing, but I did not want to use that approach for my dog. I have everything above in emails barring the evidence of the content of the sessions, although both my partner and I were there so it is not just my word vs the trainers. I refuse to phone him as I want all of the correspondence in written form at this point.
if it was you, would you be prepared to go to small claims court with it? I appreciate any forum discussions may be disclosable, so all of the above i can back up with emails and screenshots.
I attended the session, my dog was put straight on to a half check collar with was brought right up behind his ears where the pressure points are, and the trainer 'corrected' him using the collar for every little move the dog made. He then flooded him for the entire session, with my dog going ballistic at the trigger (in this case a power tool as the dog is very reactive to the noise). So power tool in one hand and dog held tight on check collar in the other. There are a lot more details aboiut the session I wont go into them all, but that was the gist, and it lasted 3 hours, with my poor puppys eyes popping out, completely stressed out and bewildered and not understanding the rules. I was in tears on several occasions as I was so stressed. Trainer finished the session by saying he liked to sort all of these problems in 6 weeks but that he couldn't do weekends or a week when he was out of the country (I had already said to him on booking that I was only able to do weekends barring this two week period in the summer). He said we would need to flood the dog with the stimulus daily to get results, and not to talk to, play with or stroke to the dog during this training, as we should not allow the dog to be near us unless we want him to do something with us. We left the session with me knowing I would never go back as i hated every second of it and wished i had had the guts to take the dog off him sooner.
So I had 3 unused sessions that I was never going to use as a) the training was not the kind, non-aversive methods advertised and b) he was not able to do weekends when i specifically said that's all the availability i had.
A few days after the session I emailed to thank him for his time and to say that due to the scheduling conflicts and the training not being quite as i had expected would he please mind refunding the remaining 3 sessions. He refused, staying that I had booked the sessions months ago, knowing he only worked with selected clients, and that i had committed to working with him over the long term, and that he had fitted me in last minute without a firm booking (the fact is he had forgotten i had booked in and it was only when we contacted him to ask the address that he said yes he could still fit us in). he stated that he fitted me in ahead of other clients on his waiting list, (when actually he had not written a single session for me into his calendar, so its not like by refunding me I was then taking up slots that he was unable to fill). He also stated that he had had two long drawn out conversations with a behaviourist I was working with (I did not instruct either trainer to do this) and that it was only out of goodwill that he was not charging me extra for this time. He then went on to say that i had known from the outset that he was a distance away from me and that there would be scheduling issues (when i had said i could only do weekends, and he then told me, having taken my money, that he could not do any weekends).
I emailed him three times in August asking for a refund, and have had zero response since the one above stating no refund would be forthcoming. Am I right to chase this? Its not so much the money now (approx £200) but the principle. I feel like he has stolen it from me by accepting it fraudulently for services that were not as described. I would never have booked the sessions if I had known they were aversive based and it annoys me that other people may experience similar. If you agree with aversive training that is one thing, but I did not want to use that approach for my dog. I have everything above in emails barring the evidence of the content of the sessions, although both my partner and I were there so it is not just my word vs the trainers. I refuse to phone him as I want all of the correspondence in written form at this point.
if it was you, would you be prepared to go to small claims court with it? I appreciate any forum discussions may be disclosable, so all of the above i can back up with emails and screenshots.
