Would you class her as dangerous?

LaurenBay said:
She is fine around her food. In fact she has never as so much put an ear back on the yard.

She won't charge at you or anything so I wouldn't say she is danger to anyone else (unless of course you want to catch her) people go in and out then field all the time turning out/bringing in their own Horses or to poo pick, in fact I've always had compliments about how laid back and sweet she is in the field.

It's just when she thinks she is coming in. Again she won't chargeor anything, just turn her bum on you, and keep doing it until she gives in. She kicks when you swing something at her bum or use a whip.

Last summer when I used to circle her, it was very rare she did actually kick out. I didn't allow her to eat, just kept walking until she stopped turning.
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This post is not really comparable to your initial post which did make her sound far worse than you're making her sound now; but this post is more in line with what I was imagining to be quite honest (I always make allowances for exaggeration, sorry), so again I'd say no she is not dangerous but needs to be managed, and people need to know to keep their wits about them when handling her.
 
Sorry Spring Feather, I am not good at putting what I want to say into words.

That is what I think, I have always only let firm experienced handlers handle her (but if bringing in I am usually the only one to do it)
 
Tiddlypom, in that instance, my friends sharer was going to catch her share Horse. She saw that my Horses rug was a bit wonky and walked over to straighten it. Ruby apprently did put her ears back and turned (perhaps cause she saw the headcollar in hand) and the woman flicked the headcollar at Rubys bum so she kicked and caught the lady on the leg.
 
At the moment she is being an angel to catch, but she is still on the winter paddock so not much grass. At the weekend she will switch on to a rested paddock so that will be the big test!
 
No she wouldn't. She is absolutely fine when you have hold of her. Never even put an ear back at anyone on the yard. I can be arranging her rugs/sorting water out whilst she has her dinner and she is as good as gold.
 
She'd be less dangerous if she was reliably nasty- least you know where you stand then rather than just when she doesn't want something done!
 
I no exactly when she will do it. Bringing in, in the summer months, and ococcasionally on the lunge. However that is very rare!
 
I would do! kicking never bothered me until I met my friends mare! I'd helped with her from day dot, then she just turned! I was doing up her belly strap, she almost kicked me in the head, this wasn't her first attempt!

trying to get her going forward on the lunge, so kicked out at me! my friend was walking her out! a bird spooked her, she kicked her owner in the leg, left her laying on the floor and bolted home! she backs up at people in the field and kicks out! she recently bolted down the lane towards a car, the driver beeped at her and she backed up and kicked her owner in the ribs!

she's trashed a stable, kicked the back so much its hanging off, then the other day, bullied her field mate who backed up, knocked the same owner to the floor and they both trampled on her!

she is what I'd called Very Dangerous!
 
kerrieberry2 said:
I would do! kicking never bothered me until I met my friends mare! I'd helped with her from day dot, then she just turned! I was doing up her belly strap, she almost kicked me in the head, this wasn't her first attempt!

trying to get her going forward on the lunge, so kicked out at me! my friend was walking her out! a bird spooked her, she kicked her owner in the leg, left her laying on the floor and bolted home! she backs up at people in the field and kicks out! she recently bolted down the lane towards a car, the driver beeped at her and she backed up and kicked her owner in the ribs!

she's trashed a stable, kicked the back so much its hanging off, then the other day, bullied her field mate who backed up, knocked the same owner to the floor and they both trampled on her!

she is what I'd called Very Dangerous!
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Something seriously wrong with that mare. I agree, highly dangerous. I would be looking into any pain issues she might be having and then if nothing could be found, would PTS as it doesn't sound like a dominance thing, more an insane thing. Brain tumour springs to mind.
 
Dangerous is so subjective but to me its a horse that is unpredictable in its reactions and/or one whose reaction to things is over the top, and also a horse that gets the red mist and does not have a sense of self preservation.

I have a mare I would class as potentially dangerous, she's not ridden these days but she is thankfully fairly good to handle and excellent with other horses so she's my friend's mare's companion. You've got to be thinking all the time with her and gauge her mood correctly, one step ahead or 6 feet under I sometimes feel. No fun at all. To be fair to her though she isn't anything like as explosive as the mare Kerryberry describes above, I wonder if she needs a hormonal supplement? My mare has one in the Spring, it seems to take the edge off her. That mare would scare the heck out of me!
 
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Unless she was a top competition mare I would put her on the kennel floor. We keep horses for pleasure, a relaxing moment after a long day at work and for the wonderful companionship they provide. Where is the pleasure in keeping something that wants to kick your head in when you go to catch her.

I don't think other people should be handling her at all, the risk is too great. You could put a stop to the behaviour by hobbling her but you would not be able to turn her out with other horses.
 
I would personally class any horse that knowingly goes after a human with the intent to hurt as dangerous, whether it is kicking out with aim or biting or other plain aggressive physical behaviour such as trapping people against walls etc. That's not to say I exclude other issues from going under the same term, and also not to say I wouldn't try to work out the underlying issue to see if it could be bettered! Bottom line is that they are such powerful animals and it literally only takes once to do some serious damage if they first manage to get you or an unsuspecting someone, no matter how many precautions you take. (I know not everyone would classify a biter as dangerous per se but a few years back a horse that used to compete here bit off a girl's finger unprovoked and I've had a massive respect for them ever since.)

Incidentally at my old RS there was a privately owned sports pony gelding that behaved much the same way as the mare kerrieberry2 described. It was eventually PTS and upon autopsy found to have a brain tumour.
 
Wagtail said:
Something seriously wrong with that mare. I agree, highly dangerous. I would be looking into any pain issues she might be having and then if nothing could be found, would PTS as it doesn't sound like a dominance thing, more an insane thing. Brain tumour springs to mind.
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Agreed, luckily I have moved my horses from that yard now, so I don't see her much anymore! she was recently diagnosed with some rear end lameness, thought it was arthritis but she seems to have been given the all clear and is being brought back into work! horrifyingly, the vet has said that she will need back shoes to help with whatever the problem is! so she's had them on since the weekend! apparently hasn't kicked out since, but I can imagine my friend is going to be very nervous around her backend!

she is currently having physio and is being walked to build up strength after the winter off! then she will be going away for schooling, so we will see what the professional thinks of her!

how can I break the news to my friend that it could be something as horrific as a brain tumour? hopefully its just been connected to lameness! but she has been like this since before she was lame, so possibly not :/
 
kerrieberry2 said:
oh Christ, you've mentioned brain tumour too :(
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I have to say I think a brain tumour is very much a worst case scenario but it can and does happen and if all else is ruled out and the behaviour goes on I would perhaps consider the possibility... The gelding in question was checked up and down time and time again and baffled everyone because on paper he was fit as a fiddle. I guess what should have tipped them off sooner was the complete and utter unpredictability of his behaviour, poor thing.

I'm not sure how to best go about mentioning it as I think stress is inevitable, but I guess I would start with asking and making sure all else has been checked and ruled out and then perhaps mention having read about similar cases where a tumour was indeed found to be the cause? x
 
AdorableAlice said:
Unless she was a top competition mare I would put her on the kennel floor. We keep horses for pleasure, a relaxing moment after a long day at work and for the wonderful companionship they provide. Where is the pleasure in keeping something that wants to kick your head in when you go to catch her.

I don't think other people should be handling her at all, the risk is too great. You could put a stop to the behaviour by hobbling her but you would not be able to turn her out with other horses.
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I have to agree with this. I've done the dangerous/unpredictable horse road and it just isn't fun - even if it is just for that niggling thought in the back of your head. When you are on a yard you also have the duty of care for everyone else - even if it is for that one day where she gets loose, or needs bringing in whilst you aren't there - for an emergency - what then?

Unless shes a world beater I just would not tolerate that behaviour, it is dangerous IMO.
 
About 20 years ago one of my sisters friends had a little welsh section C that was a little ***** bag. She called me one day as she had been having terrible trouble catching him. He was running backwards at her and kicking out when he got close enough! I went in the field with a lunge whip and every time he tried it with me he got growled at, a loud "NO" shouted and the whip across his heels. Didn't take many times for the issue to be cured but I wouldn't tolerate it long term.
 
I would say yes also. Personally I wouldn't touch her with someone's else barge pole. You understand her and know her ways but I wouldn't let anyone else do anything for her. There's a nasty accident waiting to happen here. Please be careful and take care.
 
If this was mine I would try the methods recommended above (the chasing, not allow to eat etc) and if this was not successful I would think very seriously about her future. However it is not my horse and I think as long as you don't expect anyone else to ever go near her then its your choice. If she was on part livery and you were expecting staff to catch her or if she went for other people when they were minding their own business then it would be a different matter. Provided you don't expect anyone else to go near her and you're okay dealing with the behaviour then in my opinion that's fine.
 
Definitely dangerous in my opinion and you may find yourself open to problems if she does injure someone. I hope you can work through some of her issues to resolve them.
 
kerrieberry2 said:
oh Christ, you've mentioned brain tumour too :( please can someone tell me how I can mention this to my friend without causing too much stress/upset?
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Diagnosis by Internet forum is a dangerous thing!! I would not be telling your friend her horse has a brain tumour!!

I would however suggest to her that the horses behaviour is dangerous and that the vet should see the horse. If I found myself in this situation I would probably get the mare on regumate and work closely with a behaviourist to evaluate my handling of the horse
 
All horses are potentially dangerous. ;)

Joking aside, they are so much bigger, stronger and quicker than us and their "socially acceptable" reactions and means of communication can get us killed. That is the point of training - to teach horses what is acceptable living in OUR world (which is, after all, our choice). Luckily most horses are compliant by nature so we aren't all dead but, as I'm fond of saying, "good behaviour is health insurance for horses" and letting a horse think that a potentially dangerous behaviour (which I would separate from a "dangerous horse") will likely end in tears. If I have a £ for every time someone got hurt by a horse and sang the blues because "he never actually connected before", or some variation, I'd be very rich. It's true that a horse that really wants to get you won't miss but if a horse is close then there is always the very good chance that either one of you will misjudge or that the horse thinks the option is there and will possibly upgrade the response if stressed/scared/annoyed enough one day.

Which is my long winded way of saying I don't think the OP's horse is "dangerous" per se, but I think she's displaying a dangerous behaviour. Personally, I'd want to at least try to change it, certainly before I'd act of people's recommendation to kill the horse!! And even with training, I'd try to be very careful with her (which is sounds like the OP is, tbf).

I have met a handful of horses I would class as dangerous (out of thousands and I probably meet a higher percentage of misbehaving horses than most people) because they acted in very unpredictable or "unhorsey" ways. It's impossible to train for behaviours and situations you can't predict or control and the chance of getting hurt by horses like that is almost inevitable.

That said, most of the "dangerous" horses I meet are in the wrong situation and/or something has gone very wrong with their management/training and/or they are in significant pain that has been ignored until they have to start screaming. Often a combination of factors. The only problem is that the root cause doesn't save you when it goes wrong, it only potentially allows you to change things so it doesn't go wrong.
 
TarrSteps said:
All horses are potentially dangerous. ;)

Joking aside, they are so much bigger, stronger and quicker than us and their "socially acceptable" reactions and means of communication can get us killed. That is the point of training - to teach horses what is acceptable living in OUR world (which is, after all, our choice). Luckily most horses are compliant by nature so we aren't all dead but, as I'm fond of saying, "good behaviour is health insurance for horses" and letting a horse think that a potentially dangerous behaviour (which I would separate from a "dangerous horse") will likely end in tears. If I have a £ for every time someone got hurt by a horse and sang the blues because "he never actually connected before", or some variation, I'd be very rich. It's true that a horse that really wants to get you won't miss but if a horse is close then there is always the very good chance that either one of you will misjudge or that the horse thinks the option is there and will possibly upgrade the response if stressed/scared/annoyed enough one day.

Which is my long winded way of saying I don't think the OP's horse is "dangerous" per se, but I think she's displaying a dangerous behaviour. Personally, I'd want to at least try to change it, certainly before I'd act of people's recommendation to kill the horse!! And even with training, I'd try to be very careful with her (which is sounds like the OP is, tbf).

I have met a handful of horses I would class as dangerous (out of thousands and I probably meet a higher percentage of misbehaving horses than most people) because they acted in very unpredictable or "unhorsey" ways. It's impossible to train for behaviours and situations you can't predict or control and the chance of getting hurt by horses like that is almost inevitable.

That said, most of the "dangerous" horses I meet are in the wrong situation and/or something has gone very wrong with their management/training and/or they are in significant pain that has been ignored until they have to start screaming. Often a combination of factors. The only problem is that the root cause doesn't save you when it goes wrong, it only potentially allows you to change things so it doesn't go wrong.
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Thank you for the sanest post on here so far.
 
I have a mare that I've had for years, and can be an absolute cow out in the field to catch. If she doesn't want to be caught, she'll back up toward you waving her back feet, tail swishing, ears pinned back. To be honest, this doesn't really bother me too much, as we've worked out an 'understanding' between us - she lodges her objections and makes her feelings known, I 'stalk' her patiently for a while , after 10 -20 minutes she'll give it up and allow herself to be caught, and then she's as good as gold and an absolute pleasure to do and does her job brilliantly.

Is she dangerous? No - but she has a strong personality and her own opinions on things. This is fine by me - I know how to keep myself safe and I'm happy to allow her her little peculiarities as long as ultimately she does the job she is supposed to do.

Is she dangerous? No, not if common sense and horsemanship are applied. I suppose she could be if a total novice went to catch her, but then I suppose we could say ALL horses are dangerous in the wrong hands.
 
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