Would you consider a top comp horse with KS?

[Sunshine302]

Horse has competed Inter 1/PSG but has been diagnosed with KS so has been retired. Now enjoys a hack/canter round the fields and is looking for a new job at a lower level. Horse is 12 years old so not particularly old.
Would you consider purchasing for low level BD/fun or would it be out of the question?

 

[ihatework]

If I were a lightweight rider (which I’m not) I’d consider it if the price were right and the location/severity of the KS were amenable to ongoing management.

I’d be more likely to consider it if I had prior knowledge of the horse/owner

 

[be positive]

Much the same as ihw, it may be that with good management the KS will cause no problem at lower levels, I would want to know a bit more of how it was causing a problem and the severity but going down to a much lower level may be all that is required to get the topline stretching again and allow you to do pretty much anything and the fun of a horse than you can play a bit with the tricks when you want.

 

[ycbm]

No I wouldn't unless you were going to remove the issue surgically. Some horses are very stoic and you would have no idea if she was working in pain.

.

 

[AUB]

Depends on how bad the KS is and how low the price is.

 

[Evie91]

No. Unless you are prepared to investigate and treat as appropriate.
Assuming if it’s a top horse that’s already been done and by the sounds concluded.
I’d want to be very clear as to what the diagnosis and prognosis is for the horse. All well and good saying it can’t perform at top levels but would be ok at lower levels/hacking but I’d want to be clear ‘who’ is saying this and the likelihood of the horse being pain free.
Some owners have more scruples than others, some want best for the horse others want whatever money they can make.

 

[cobgoblin]

No... I wouldn't buy any horse with KS.

 

[DabDab]

No... I wouldn't buy any horse with KS.

Ditto this

 

[catembi]

Even with the surgery, and even with 'successful' surgery, i.e. with 'after' x-rays perfect, they don't always come right. Mine didn't.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I might loan it. An ethical owner would NOT be selling but might offer the horse for loan.

 

[Bellaboo18]

No I wouldn't

 

[AmyMay]

I might loan it. An ethical owner would NOT be selling but might offer the horse for loan.

This.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

As above, no.

 

[ycbm]

Even with the surgery, and even with 'successful' surgery, i.e. with 'after' x-rays perfect, they don't always come right. Mine didn't.

Neither did Wagtail's or one belonging to a friend of mine.

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[Mrs. Jingle]

Absolutely not - and as an owner I would not be selling either. If I could not afford to personally ensure its future as pain free as possible I would be PTS - not trying to make a few more shekels out of it.

 

[Jules111]

I bought (unknowingly) a beautiful, talented mare with kissing spine 5 years ago. KS not picked up on a 5 stage vetting. I had symptoms fairly quickly but it took 6 months to get an official diagnosis.

It's a difficult journey, rehab was tough, a complete roller coaster of emotions and sadly our experience was not great. I would question how comfortable this horse is. Some do continue to work but many don't. If the horse is experiencing low level pain constantly it could explode at some point if something relatively minor just tips the poor creature over the edge. My mare could run through a fence and would turn herself inside out to get a rider off. I broke my hand coming off her during rehab when the injections were wearing off after only 2 months. It started to feel like Russian Roulette every time I rode. One day fine but cold weather, hormones, stress could really tip her over to dangerous levels. The decision to PTS was sadly our only option, not a horse that could comfortably retire and the poor girl deserved to be pain free.

I'd also wonder how rideable this horse is, typically something competing at this level is very sensitive and forward thinking. Not easy to ride that type of horse for the less experienced rider at a lower level (sorry if that's not the case for you and you are experienced dealing with competition horses - most of us aren't).

 

[Winters100]

No, because I would be constantly looking for signals of pain and worried that by riding the horse I was causing distress. I tend to think with these things that it is one thing to have a horse with such problems, but it is quite another to buy one.

 

[pansymouse]

No, all the horses I've know to have KS have been PTS bar one which was retired post surgery.

 

[rara007]

I doubt I could ride 1 side of it without the added issue of possible spinal pain so no.

 

[SpringArising]

No I wouldn't. I'd be constantly worried it was in pain without showing it. I also don't know of anyone personally whose horse has returned to back to normal after treatment.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

No, all the horses I've know to have KS have been PTS bar one which was retired post surgery.

Just to be clear in my post I was not suggesting for one minute each and every horse with kissing spines needs PTS....I was stating my own opinion that selling on a horse with kissing spines is putting that horse at a high future risk of being buted up, resold, used for disciplines it is no longer fit for, resulting in future abuse and unnecessary suffering.

If the horse has served them well, and in this case it would appear it has, they owe it a comfortable and pain free retirement. However if they are not in the position to do this for the horse they at least owe it the dignity and safety of a pain free PTS rather than the above future scenario.

 

[sbloom]

I would only consider a loan full stop, I might consider it if I felt I could do a LOT of in hand rehab to see if it could be improved/corrected, and a guarantee that if it comes right (and I'm not sure that high level work is much worse for KS than low level, in theory more lift in front with collection should help) the horse won't be taken back pronto.

 

[The Trooper]

I wouldn't, I've seen one horse with KS being ridden pre-diagnoses and the explosions that she used to have were horrific to watch, I cannot begin to imagine the pain she was in to warrant that sort of behaviour.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Does anyone remember the steeplechaser Mill House? He was a top horse but started falling over fences. It was eventually diagnosed as impinging spinal processes, which we now call KS. He had an op presumably to remove one of them and eventually came back to racing but only one race. He was one of my favourite horses (after Arkle) and I was lucky enough to be at Wincanton for his comeback and final race. He romped home by a good distance, so lovely to see him winning again but not sure what happened then, guess they just decided to retire him so no idea what his long term recovery was like. That was a heck of a long time ago.

 

[Andrew657]

My horse was operated on prior to my ownership for KS - and fully rehabbed (I had full disclosure from previous owner).

I have found that assuming I can maintain regular schooling then the KS doesn't cause ongoing problems (He does get regular physio checks - and saddle fit)

The bigger issue is when he has extended time off for anything (not to do with back) - then you almost need to do a full KS rehab to bring back into work.

 

[ycbm]

I wouldn't, I've seen one horse with KS being ridden pre-diagnoses and the explosions that she used to have were horrific to watch, I cannot begin to imagine the pain she was in to warrant that sort of behaviour.

Like this?

He initially only did this in dressage arenas when asked for a canter transition. When I realised people were wrong saying it was behavioural and got him x rayed, he had six touching processes behind the saddle. There was just no room, surgeon said he must have been born like it. But he put up with it unless you added the stress of being in a dressage arena with transitions at a particular spot instead of when he felt he could cope. Poor boy, he taught me a lot about never assuming that they aren't in pain.

 

[The Trooper]

Like this?

He initially only did this in dressage arenas when asked for a canter transition. When I realised people were wrong saying it was behavioural and got him x rayed, he had six touching processes behind the saddle. There was just no room, surgeon said he must have been born like it. But he put up with it unless you added the stress of being in a dressage arena with transitions at a particular spot instead of when he felt he could cope. Poor boy, he taught me a lot about never assuming that they aren't in pain.

More or less, but she was tetchy most of the time (Described as being mareish, evidently more to it than that).

She always hated me for some reason and would bite me at any given opportunity. Very what could be described as girthy when tacking up (pulling faces, bitey etc), owner suspected ulcers were to blame for that. Also dipped her back when being mounted, this was put down to being 'cold-backed' (?). Constant sass when being ridden and explosions when asked to go forward at anything more than a walk.

She was diagnosed by xrays - The KS was obvious to me and I had never actually seen a horse's back xray prior to that.

She was PTS without even coming round from the sedation she was given for the xray. Broke my heart watching her go down, again, first horse I'd seen pass so will likely stick with me my whole life.


What was the outcome of this one ycbm, do you know?

 

[ycbm]

More or less, but she was tetchy most of the time (Described as being mareish, evidently more to it than that).

She always hated me for some reason and would bite me at any given opportunity. Very what could be described as girthy when tacking up (pulling faces, bitey etc), owner suspected ulcers were to blame for that. Also dipped her back when being mounted, this was put down to being 'cold-backed' (?). Constant sass when being ridden and explosions when asked to go forward at anything more than a walk.

She was diagnosed by xrays - The KS was obvious to me and I had never actually seen a horse's back xray prior to that.

She was PTS without even coming round from the sedation she was given for the xray. Broke my heart watching her go down, again, first horse I'd seen pass so will likely stick with me my whole life.


What was the outcome of this one ycbm, do you know?

He was mine. He had the ligament snip, which transformed him, but he had a lifelong habit of smashing his head on things and before his rehab was complete gave himself two head fractures in close succession that left him in such uncontrollable nerve pain I was forced to put him out of his misery.

.

 

[Upthecreek]

A reminder to us all that if a horse displays unusual behaviour, be it subtle or extreme, we should take notice and get it checked out. It is almost always in response to pain

In answer to OPs question, no I would never knowingly buy a horse with KS, never mind a top comp horse. Way too much of a risk and I would constantly be over analysing every little thing.

 

[Sugar Plum]

KS is a dreadful thing. Most other injuries can be managed in some way but KS is just so difficult. Saying that though, there are some top horses out there that have it and are managed accordingly. I personally would not buy or loan a horse I knew had KS, even for low level work