Would you consider a waterford as being a harsh bit?

Paddy Irish

Paddy Irish

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Hi , I've been advised to use a waterford bit for my boy to discourage him from leaning on the bit , my hands are ok and not heavy , but I'm wondering if this is a harsh bit or a softish bit as I've not used one before .. I do a fair bit of schooling and he seems worse in canter i.e fairly collected and not working from behind but heavy on the forehand any positive advise would be appreciated.
 
IMO its not the bit its the hands holding it which is the important thing.

I know some people will say a waterford is a severe bit, BUT it actually suited my boy and he seems comfortable and OK when I've used it. I don't use it all the tiime, only for when I need good brakes and/or just need to remind him that he musn't take a hold when it suits him on occasions!!

There's some research from a few years ago if my memory serves me right, which suggested that the waterford is no more severe than any other bit if used correctly and sensitively. Sorry can't remember any more about this.

IMO a plain single jointed snaffle, with its nutcracker action, isn't as "soft" as people would like to think, especially if you combine it with a grackle noseband which effectively clamps the mouth shut. A lot of horses are advertised as having a "snaffle mouth" when actually the good old fashioned jointed snaffle doesn't probably suit the majority of horses and they'd be better off in something else.
 
i ride my boy in a fullcheek waterford, only because he dont like anything else.. he has a fat tongue hes a little welshy...tried lots of bits this is the only one he likes...i dont think there harsh...
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
IMO a plain single jointed snaffle, with its nutcracker action, isn't as "soft" as people would like to think, especially if you combine it with a grackle noseband which effectively clamps the mouth shut. A lot of horses are advertised as having a "snaffle mouth" when actually the good old fashioned jointed snaffle doesn't probably suit the majority of horses and they'd be better off in something else.
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I agree with this completely! One trainer I worked for had a huge variety of bits and would always try to find the one the horse was happy in - and generally it wasn't a plain snaffle. Interestingly, his horses always went happy and never had a bruised or bloody mouth, and some of the bits he used are considered severe by most.
 
i'd rather see a 'severe' bit used lightly than a so-called 'gentle' bit used harshly. totally agree with the above about nutcracker action of single-joint bits.
this is worth watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a-aV0Rsxmg
i personally wouldn't use a waterford for flatwork if dressage (competitive) is the aim as it doesn't teach a horse how to accept and work towards a contact, BUT if it's all about teaching your boy not to lean on you, it's a good option, as long as you never saw with it... that's when it turns into a very harsh bit that can do a lot of damage.
 
I do not find it a harsh bit. It just stops leaning as there is nothing fixed it flexes too much for them to continue with the habit. I found it useful temporarily for jumping, whilst I was getting him fitter and going correctly on the flat.
 
This is all interesting - I've just started using one on my pony (he grabs the bit and bolts) and he's going quite kindly in it, to the point where he's actually stretching down rather than shortening his frame, which he did previously.
 
I don't think its that harsh. Like others have said its the hands that use it. I've recently started reschooling one of my horses and she was heavy on the bit and locked her jaw against it etc. We put a WF in because they collapse when the horse takes hold of it so they have nothing to lean on like she was doing in the french link. Now after a couple of weeks of schooling she's in a KK French Link, much better but is still in the WF for hacking as she gets a bit headstrong but I'm might consider a dutch gag...
 
mijodsr2blinkintite said:
imo its not the bit its the hands holding it which is the important thing.

I know some people will say a waterford is a severe bit, but it actually suited my boy and he seems comfortable and ok when i've used it. I don't use it all the tiime, only for when i need good brakes and/or just need to remind him that he musn't take a hold when it suits him on occasions!!

There's some research from a few years ago if my memory serves me right, which suggested that the waterford is no more severe than any other bit if used correctly and sensitively. Sorry can't remember any more about this.

Imo a plain single jointed snaffle, with its nutcracker action, isn't as "soft" as people would like to think, especially if you combine it with a grackle noseband which effectively clamps the mouth shut. A lot of horses are advertised as having a "snaffle mouth" when actually the good old fashioned jointed snaffle doesn't probably suit the majority of horses and they'd be better off in something else.
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this!
 
what she said... any bit is harsh in the wrong hands. Schooling is the answer in most cases. Do lots and lots and lots and lots of transistions so that the horse is listening to you, and in front of the leg and therefore using his hocks, then he'll be lighter to your hand.
 
orsolya80 said:
I agree with this completely! One trainer I worked for had a huge variety of bits and would always try to find the one the horse was happy in - and generally it wasn't a plain snaffle. Interestingly, his horses always went happy and never had a bruised or bloody mouth, and some of the bits he used are considered severe by most.
Click to expand...

I agree with this too regarding the single jointed snaffle (unless it is one of the curved ones designed to reduce the nutcacker action and not dig into the roof of the mouth). Pairing up a single jointed snaffle with a grackle, drop or flash noseband is like a torture device. However, I hate the waterford and think they are extremely harsh as the thin bars of the mouth get caught between the nobbles and they exert very concentrated areas of pressure . IMO the best bits are the french link or lozenge type or the single jointed which curve around the tongue.
 
kerilli said:
i'd rather see a 'severe' bit used lightly than a so-called 'gentle' bit used harshly. totally agree with the above about nutcracker action of single-joint bits.
this is worth watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a-aV0Rsxmg
i personally wouldn't use a waterford for flatwork if dressage (competitive) is the aim as it doesn't teach a horse how to accept and work towards a contact, BUT if it's all about teaching your boy not to lean on you, it's a good option, as long as you never saw with it... that's when it turns into a very harsh bit that can do a lot of damage.
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Thanks for everyones imput and i must say that after watching this youtube clip I do feel a bit sick , as the girl who comes to jump my boy has put him in a single jointed snaffle ( something I've never liked but I'm bowing to her having more knowlege than me in these matters ) I have taken his flash strap off the nose band cos he was definitely pissy out hacking , so i'll try the waterford and see what he's like ... thanks again all ..
 
just as a foot note to the above , nobody seems to mention mullen mouth type bits , are they totally a waste of time , what is their purpose???
 
paddy irish said:
just as a foot note to the above , nobody seems to mention mullen mouth type bits , are they totally a waste of time , what is their purpose???
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Obviously, the milder the bit the better, but I prefer mullen mouth pelhams to waterfords if you really do need the brakes. If it is just leaning on your hands that's the problem, then that is not something I would solve by using a harsher bit. Any horse can be schooled to get off your hands without harsh bits or rough handling. If it's a safety issue or that the horse really is too strong, then I would firstly try a frenchlink hanging cheek, and then a myler with hooks, and perhaps a mullen mouth pelham. Have you tried bitless?
 
Wagtail said:
Obviously, the milder the bit the better, but I prefer mullen mouth pelhams to waterfords if you really do need the brakes. If it is just leaning on your hands that's the problem, then that is not something I would solve by using a harsher bit. Any horse can be schooled to get off your hands without harsh bits or rough handling. If it's a safety issue or that the horse really is too strong, then I would firstly try a frenchlink hanging cheek, and then a myler with hooks, and perhaps a mullen mouth pelham. Have you tried bitless?
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I haven't tried bitless with this boy but I am tempted , he doesn't seem the type to tank off , but he's new-ish to me and i'm still working him out. I tried a dr cook on my old arab mare , but we were ' attacked ' by a dog whilst out trying it - needless to say she went into meltdown , so I sent it back. I might see if there's any second hand ones on eBay , everythings worth a go , it just gets expensive if you keep buying new stuff!
 
skydancer said:
so, is the waterford gag a bit used for the stronger horse that tanks or just for the ones that lean?:)
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You won't hold a horse that tanks/bolts with a Waterford (well I didn't anyway!) but I can in a Mullen Mouth Pelham - easily :)

Waterfords are not harsh bits but then neither is a Pelham IMHO - it is only the hands that use them :)
 
When my daughter got her pony he came in a waterford hanging cheek. He leans & tanks!! She swapped it to a waterford gag (wouldn't have done if she didn't have soft hands) & never looked back. She only competes jumping/XC In it though, schools In an eggbutt snaffle as I didn't see the need to have it in unless really need it!!! He does sometimes get a slightly cut mouth on one side, so I was getting paranoid that it was the bit (although got it in the snaffle too) got loads of advice but the general census is that its a reaction to the metal. Doesn't bother him at all & clears up quick. I think its best to just find what works for you & your horse & you are both happy!! xx
 
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