would you do this

Annielusian said:
Yikes, I could never end a life like that. We've spent thousands on my dog in just a year to help her and it never even came into my mind to end her life. She's still alive and kicking today, even if we have to spend £50 on tablets quite often!

Perhaps I get a little too attached to animals, since I don't really have many human friends, but even so!
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Not everyone has the money to do it though.
 
Annielusian said:
Yikes, I could never end a life like that.
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Neither would I. If what the OP says is true then what she has done is terribly callous and yet so many people on this thread view her as a hero.

BTW why is the argument on this forum only ever that the horse is either killed or it lives for all eternity in some hell hole? There is a third option you know and that's the one I'm FAR more familiar with.
 
lionman said:
If they dont have the money to cope in adversity, I wonder if they should have animals at all.
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I struggle with the ethics of this myself Lionman. I've had animals most of my life, but always been on a low income. I know my animals (mostly rescued) have always been well cared for but there have been times I've worried that they'd have a better life if I was better off.

I wonder does my not being well off (due mostly to disability) mean I shouldn't have animals? I'm sure many would say so, but it would feel like a life sentence to me.

I will have to go without a lot of things in order to afford to keep my mare Mollie. I hope I can do right by her.
 
lionman said:
If they dont have the money to cope in adversity, I wonder if they should have animals at all.
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jesus christ you're so smug

i work 10 hours a day to keep my horses and if they need anything , are ill or need an unshedueled visit to the vet or expensive medication that i haven't budgeted for then i go without myself.,without putting the heating on in winter sometimes... and then there's idiots like you saying that if you're not rich and can cope for every eventuality financially or adversity that could happen to your horse then you shouldnt have them in the first place.

what a smug **** you are.
 
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meandmyself said:
Better PTS quietly at home than dumped in a market to go God knows where.
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Exactly, or sold on to some well meaning person, who themselves cant cope with it;s quirkyness, and sells it on again, etc,etc!
Once sold we have no hold on our horses, as a few forum members can tell you, and at twenty yrs old, with some problems, is this really fair on it.
yes it may have been sold to a brilliant home for life, but who would want to take the chance, not me!
 
I have a lovely horse who was ill treated,has the scares to prove it,long story how i got him, but i know the breeder,he is 6 years old and still not broken in it's taken 2 years to gain his trust,i have to keep him on his own because he's really aggresive with other horse's in his field,to the point he will chase them through the fence and try to kill, great with any other animals so he's kept with cattle loves them, if anything happened to me who would buy a badly scared (sp) standardbred with issues,nobody can catch him but me,tried it,hates hoodies,hates long boots, and hates men and children only option would be pts unfortunaly
 
tinpot said:
i cant believe what a woman done at yard today:eek:
she owned an aged arab totally fit aged 20 years young (PTS) because she could not ride her( Nothing to do with the horse just she was incapable lack of experiance) such a waste of a lovely horse (not the first shes had PTS this year either) thinging of calling some one
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I would do the same thing, in fact, at some stage, I most certainly will do so for my own aged arab. I call it being responsible.

Out of curiosity, if this Lady had sent the mare off to market thus passing the buck to someone else to take care of the horse, would you have felt better about it?
 
lionman said:
If they dont have the money to cope in adversity, I wonder if they should have animals at all.
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I don't agree.

For example, I have enough money to make sure all of my animals are wormed/vaccinated properly. I can pay for most treatment, but I do have a limit to how much I can pay out. Yes, it sucks, but it is what it is. Believe me, my animals would have a far worse life if I made myself bankrupt trying to save one of them.
 
babymare said:
my mare is 13 and I am facing putting what seems a healthy horse to sleep = my reason - she as problems with bad bad stress due to her life before me(battered horrifically) which I can manage given her routine stays same etc etc and she is half blind. Im poss moving out the area and I do not want to put her through stress of moving new sounds new noises new routine new field - if I could find a yard to take her and let her live in a herd.- all which needs to be constant given her sight . Her sight is slowly going and i believe to early than to late Am I wrong ? personally I dont give a damn what people think had all the comments :)- i will bring her in quietly from the herd she loves and quietly she will be put to sleep with me by her side talking to her and being strong for her - my little soul mate and friend who I made a promised to that she would never feel fear again - so am I wrong :) x
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At the end of the day, your decision is your own and you are doing what you consider the best thing for your mare, it is up to no one else but you, and it is your business alone.

I happen to wholeheartedly agree with your decision because I was in an identical position 5 years ago with my 14 yo gelding. I did what I considered best for him. I have never felt the tiniest bit of guilt about my decision. PM me if you ever feel like a chat, I'm in your corner.
 
Enfys said:
I would do the same thing, in fact, at some stage, I most certainly will do so for my own aged arab. I call it being responsible.

Out of curiosity, if this Lady had sent the mare off to market thus passing the buck to someone else to take care of the horse, would you have felt better about it?
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...and for those who think I'm a callous bitch, do you know why I'll have her shot rather than pass her on if the time comes when my circumstances mean I can't keep her, even if she is in good health?

Because the only people that will want her will be the arab breeders, who would bite my hand off to have her for the bloodlines she carries (they've tried already) and they'll pump a foal out of her annually, to sell for thousands, until it kills her. She isn't some cute and cuddly lawn ornament, she is a complete diva and she costs a fortune to feed.

Yes, there are many people out there who genuinely want old horses to care for, but once a horse is sold, it is sold, and if what you thought was a loving, forever home, turns out not to be then tough, because unless you can buy the horse back, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. That is what I will not risk.
 
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I'm really not sure about this. I did sell a quirky 18 yr old Arab that acted like a 5yr old, but I was as careful as could be and for me it worked well as they loved him but that was 10 years ago and after moves and phones losses I have no way ofcontacting them or hearing how they are getting on. :(

Everyone has their own reasons and while I wouldn't judge anyone for it, if my own animal was healthy and happy in themselves, I personally don't know if I could PTS. BUT, I don't know if I could ever sell again either. It took me 3 years to stop crying at the thought of my boy!

It's a decision I hope never to be in and I honestly don't know what I would do.
As others have said, I know in my head there is worse than PTS but I wonder if my heart would rule my head?

For those who have PTS, big hugs as it sounds like terrible times and you thought long and hard about your horses welfare.
 
tinpot said:
just wanted to say thanks to most of you for your bitching and snipe remarks.
FACT i do know the situation very well thank you, their were no under lying problems with the horse and cost not a problem. only problem the horse was too lively for her to ride (20 yrs old) and she didn't bother to see if anyone could offer her a loving home.
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I doubt very much that you have a single clue as to what the reasons where for the horse being put down.

You seem to enjoy flying in to threads ( or in the case starting them ) causing a stir and then flying off.

Why not come on here and contribute in a constructive and adult way???
 
amymay said:
A sentence that sums up the complete misconception of what the majority of posters on here have said.
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Actually no, Amymay - not a misconception - actually an observation.
How many times do you read on this forum, a post from someone saying that they could afford to keep a horse when it was rideable, but all of a sudden they can't afford to keep it because it can't be ridden, but would have a quality of life retired? So they post because they say they want opinions on whether they should PTS or not. They actually don't want opinions, they want everyone to say that of course it's ok to PTS because you can't ride it, and it makes them feel a better about it because some anonymous faces say it's ok.
And for those who think I'm anti PTS, I'm not. A while ago, a very well loved forum member put on a thread on whether she should have her pony PTS and everyone had a go at her for doing it even though it had serious problems. I was one of the only ones who supported her as she had actually tried and not been able to sort the pony's problems out. But it depends on who you are when you post on this forum of course.....
 
Holly Hocks said:
Actually no, Amymay - not a misconception - actually an observation.
How many times do you read on this forum, a post from someone saying that they could afford to keep a horse when it was rideable, but all of a sudden they can't afford to keep it because it can't be ridden, but would have a quality of life retired? So they post because they say they want opinions on whether they should PTS or not. They actually don't want opinions, they want everyone to say that of course it's ok to PTS because you can't ride it, and it makes them feel a better about it because some anonymous faces say it's ok.
.
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Really?? Very, very rarely - and you know how active I am on here.

I don't think for a minute you are anti PTS - I just think that the general tenor of this thread has passed you by, as perhaps the forum generally.
 
amymay said:
Really?? Very, very rarely - and you know how active I am on here.

I don't think for a minute you are anti PTS - I just think that the general tenor of this thread has passed you by, as perhaps the forum generally.
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Wow, I think you can type quicker than me - that's some mean feat!!
Going to work now - can argue more later!
 
Op how can you know all the facts for sure unless you are the lady in question, some people are very private.

Yes you can pay all sorts of money to correct some sort if medical condition but at times that can be worse than PTS.
I know this cause am one of those people who tried this with a mare who had major colic I was advised to PTS by vet she had shown colic like symptoms for 2 years on and off :(
I wanted to give her every chance in the world, she pulled threw the op but omg the next year was horrendous for her. I won't describe what she went threw on the day she died as it was horrific, I still cry and am enraged by it to this day what she coped with poor little mare :(
I thought I was being kind by giving her every chance looking back in hindsight I was cruel to do it :(
My boy pts was no light choice but I couldn't watch him go threw what my mare did, does that make me a bad person cause if it does then so be it.
It was the most difficult decision of my life.
No I personally wouldn't pts a healthy horse but as I already said you don't know the ins and outs of things so would never judge someone on it.
 
lionman said:
If they dont have the money to cope in adversity, I wonder if they should have animals at all.
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not everyone has thousands in the bank but it doesn't stop them being good owners:mad: neither does having unlimited funds make someone a good caring owner!!

The PTS or sell on debate will go on forever because there is no black and white right answer!
What one person may consider a dangerous and unusable animal someone else may see as a challenge with prospects. People are very quick to judge without knowing the horse or the full circumstances, but don't like to be judged themselves;)
 
You know, it's not a competition to prove how much we love our animals by bragging how much we spend on vets bills - I would certainly be in the ribbons if money spent was a measure of responsibility - and when I post that PTS is a valid option it is with the knowledge and experience of what can and does happen to some animals when some owners cannot/will not face up to reality and pass on animals to a poor future.

REALITY

There are more horses than there are homes, let alone good homes. If you are willing and able to keep an aged, injured or difficult horse, great, good for you but if you are not for whatever reason then PTS becomes one of the options - that doesn't mean it is the only option. However, I do think that you should be brutally honest with yourself in those circumstances and consider what is best for the horse in the long term and not worry about those who will abuse you for making a very hard decision - think about it, are they offering that wonderful thing 'a home for life' to save the horse? Unlikely :rolleyes:

I wonder if a lot of the people who think that PTS is wrong except in cases of physical suffering are lucky enough to have not experienced how fickle life can be when it's not just a matter of having the time and money to keep our animals but also having to manage work, family, house with all the stresses both financially and emotionally that entails. Rather than being all judgemental about how you wouldn't do x,y or z maybe put yourself in their shoes and bless your good fortune?

BTW, I read an American horse forum CoTH and they report quite often that vets refuse to put down horses if the VET feels they can be saved. I am very glad that we aren't in a similar position here...
 
I have to agree that you probably don't know all the details. I'm assuming (sorry ) that you and this woman aren't friends, so there could be any number of things going on, maybe the woman is ill? or has family problems? financial problems? the horse is ill/ in pain? has scared the living **** out of the woman and she doesn't want to deal with it, or risk anyone getting injured?

Its very sad if a fit and healthy horse has been pts purely because the owner didn't want her anymore as you say, in an ideal world she would care for her till the horse died of old age... but this is the real world.

Even finding a home for the horse is a risky business.
Theres a thread on here at the moment by someone saying they sold a horse, which very definately isnt a novice ride, and have seen it advertised as such 2 wks later. I can only think that horses in that case end up badly hurting someone, or being neglected or dogged.

Kx
 
I was involved in an accident 18 months ago. One of the horses with us was knocked over by a car. He got over all of his physical injuries, but he had a head injury which, if you didnt know any of this had happened, you wouldnt know about. Because of my injuries, I couldnt handle him, and yes, in the end I was scared of him. My choices were to sell him to some unsuspecting person, knowing he was dangerous, or turning him out in the field for a couple of weeks, and then having him quietly PTS.
 
I have to agree with the few who have said "her horse, her choice".

I think until you walk in her shoes - no the real ins and outs of the situation - you cannot really pass judgement. She may have told you a complete cock and bull story but really there could be a whole different world of reason behind her decision.

I think a horse of 20 that is perhaps slightly difficult is better PTS then sold, because at least that way you can garentee it's ending, it's had a good life (with hope) and now it will go piecefully to sleep in the field rather than what COULD happen - it end up in the markets and sold to the meat man! I say could because it may end up in a lovely forever home- but who's to garentee that?

Also, I understand you are proberbly in shock and the idea of the event itself will be an upsetting one, but I think you need to look at the bigger picture- if this un exspirienced owner had tried to sell her on, she probably would have taken the first offer on her without looking into the home first!

:)
 
lionman said:
If they dont have the money to cope in adversity, I wonder if they should have animals at all.
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Now then lionman, what parameters do you set by "not having the money to cope in adversity"? £100 , £1000, £10000??? Perhaps you'd like to take over my veterinary costs for a few months and give me a break from it? Its currently running at around £300 per month, every month and I think this little "adversity" has cost me in excess of £30K in the 14 years I've been forking out for it. Would you have put down an apparently perfectly healthy 12 year old if you knew that it was going to cost that much? Now the old girl is 28 years old and in complete retirement but I continue to make the payments because that is my choice. Alot of people would say I was completely barking to spend that much on an animal, and probably rightly so. Not surprisingly there are rather few horses in the UK who have been so fortunate. Would you condemn their owners for choosing to PTS in that case?
 
tinpot said:
just wanted to say thanks to most of you for your bitching and snipe remarks.
FACT i do know the situation very well thank you, their were no under lying problems with the horse and cost not a problem. only problem the horse was too lively for her to ride (20 yrs old) and she didn't bother to see if anyone could offer her a loving home.

and im glad to see by a few comments that im not the only one who feels this way.
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I have to say that I am increasingly shocked by the hardened attitude of some of the posters on this forum.

I agree with the OP it takes a very hard person to PTS a healthy horse with no other issues than it is too forward going for her to ride. However, if she is the type of person to not bother to find a sharer or suitable loan home for the horse, then I suppose PTS is the easiest option, and the horse would have known nothing. Very sad though.

I am currently in the position of having one retired horse through injury, and another horse (so far undiagnosed) that cannot be ridden. Unless he is in pain in the paddock, he too will be retired. Even though it means I will no longer have a horse to ride as I can't afford a third, nor could I take on another horse due to the number I currently have to care for. I have only owned him a year, and am not attached to him, though I am bonding more and more with him each day. But I just could not bring myself to do it unless it was for humane reasons. I certainly couldn't live with myself if I had him PTS because I wasn't competent enough to ride him!
 
TBH the whole thing sounds like utter rubbish to me. The OP says that it's not the first horse this person has had pts this year.

To put it purely in financial terms, as so many people on here have done, adversely, how many people go out and buy horses that are unsuitable just to pts them and take the financial hit of the purchase price and the cost of the deed itself - not very many, that's for sure. So that leaves the possibility that she managed to get the insurance money back. In order for that to happen the horse had to fall within strict BEVA guidelines, either behaviourally or medically. If the horse fell within those guidelines then the person can hardly be accused of either pts because she was too inexperienced to cope with behavioural issues (they've got to be pretty radical for the BEVA) or pts a healthy horse.

I suggest that the OP has really very little idea of the reasons behind the owner's decision.
 
amymay said:
Not hardened - just practical.
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Well I find that very sad. It is not practical for me to keep my current 'broken' horse. I now face not being able to have my own horse to ride. But I make a commitment to all the animals I take on, that if I possibly can, they are with me for life, or until they have to be PTS for humane reasons. If the vet tells me he is not paddock sound he will be PTS, but he looks to be fine in the paddock and so he has a home with me until he is not. I am gutted. Absolutely gutted that this has happened to me twice in two years and that the horse I bought to replace my retired mare is now, barring miracles going to be a second field ornament. But if I had him PTS it would be purely for selfish reasons and I really couldn't do it. If I could then yes, I would be hard.
 
jemima_too said:
TBH the whole thing sounds like utter rubbish to me. The OP says that it's not the first horse this person has had pts this year.

To put it purely in financial terms, as so many people on here have done, adversely, how many people go out and buy horses that are unsuitable just to pts them and take the financial hit of the purchase price and the cost of the deed itself - not very many, that's for sure. So that leaves the possibility that she managed to get the insurance money back. In order for that to happen the horse had to fall within strict BEVA guidelines, either behaviourally or medically. If the horse fell within those guidelines then the person can hardly be accused of either pts because she was too inexperienced to cope with behavioural issues (they've got to be pretty radical for the BEVA) or pts a healthy horse.

I suggest that the OP has really very little idea of the reasons behind the owner's decision.
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Good point about the insurance money. However, take my situation for example. If I put my boy to sleep because the vet says he is in pain, then I get my £5k insurance money. However, if he is paddock sound and I PTS, I do not. BUT I can then afford to care for another horse both financially and time wise, so it would be the most attractive option to me if I were that way inclined.
 
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