would you do this

Wagtail said:
Well I find that very sad. It is not practical for me to keep my current 'broken' horse. I now face not being able to have my own horse to ride. But I make a commitment to all the animals I take on, that if I possibly can, they are with me for life, or until they have to be PTS for humane reasons. If the vet tells me he is not paddock sound he will be PTS, but he looks to be fine in the paddock and so he has a home with me until he is not. I am gutted. Absolutely gutted that this has happened to me twice in two years and that the horse I bought to replace my retired mare is now, barring miracles going to be a second field ornament. But if I had him PTS it would be purely for selfish reasons and I really couldn't do it. If I could then yes, I would be hard.
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Look Wagtail - we all know that you are able to offer a home to horses that many of only aspire to.

However, life just gets in the way sometimes........:cool:
 
tinpot said:
just wanted to say thanks to most of you for your bitching and snipe remarks.
FACT i do know the situation very well thank you, their were no under lying problems with the horse and cost not a problem. only problem the horse was too lively for her to ride (20 yrs old) and she didn't bother to see if anyone could offer her a loving home.

and im glad to see by a few comments that im not the only one who feels this way.
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What business is it of yours as to what she does with her own horse? Absolutely none - FACT! Grow up.
 
I have a horse that has been a pasture ornament pretty much ever since purchase. She costs a fortune in vet fees and takes up a lot of time to care for. She is unsellable unless I sent her to market or con someone into buying her.
She will never do the job she was bought for, I cannot afford to buy a replacement whilst paying for her.
PTS is unacceptable, she is not a throwaway possession. She enjoys life, despite having behavioural issues after working herself into the ground for someone before me.
Someone has to repay the debt owed to this horse and that happens to be me.

To have a healthy horse PTS, not because of owners poverty or illness but because it isn't right for her, is wrong.
In the case mentioned by the OP, the owner would get more respect by getting a rider for it or put herself out to find a good home. To say it has no future with anyone else is not true.

To own a horse is to assume a commitment for its well being. Not having til you get bored or fancy sometihing better, newer or shinier.

I too wonder about vets being asked to put healthy horses down for owners convenience. Must make them a bit cynical about horse lovers. Or is the new HHO pc term now 'horse riders' for us serious horse owners. After all, loving horses is so fluffy......
 
If understanding that a humane death is not even in the top ten list of worst fates than can befall a horse, and understanding that not everyone has the time, facilities, experience, or frankly the motivation to retire a horse properly, and understanding that a quirky horse will always be that bit more vulnerable to ending up on the sales spiral makes me into a hardened horse-hater, then I will wear that label with pride and continue to do what I do - which is to try and help those horses that are still alive and still suffering.
 
Well actually Amymay, no, I can't. I am able to offer a home to two horses only. That is it. Those two horses may be fit and able, or they maybe useless, as is sadly the case. I have to sacrifice my own riding pleasure to do this. I am not rich. I have a crap car and never go on hols, or the hairdressers or buy new clothes (bet you all have an attractive image of me in your minds now ;)). I have limited resources and two horses is it.
 
Wagtail said:
I have to sacrifice my own riding pleasure to do this. I am not rich. I have a crap car and never go on hols, or the hairdressers or buy new clothes (bet you all have an attractive image of me in your minds now ;)).
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LOL, yes. Integrity and responsibilty are the words that spring to mind. Along with 'dragged through a hedge backwards' hair. :D
 
Wagtail said:
Well actually Amymay, no, I can't. I am able to offer a home to two horses only. That is it. Those two horses may be fit and able, or they maybe useless, as is sadly the case. I have to sacrifice my own riding pleasure to do this. I am not rich. I have a crap car and never go on hols, or the hairdressers or buy new clothes (bet you all have an attractive image of me in your minds now ;)). I have limited resources and two horses is it.
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But you have your own land on which to do this - running your business from it. So 1 horse, 2 horses makes no odds.

Those with horses at livery face much harder implications and decisions, ultimately. And whilst you may consider those who choose to put their horses down hardened, the reality is that they probably don't go a day without thinking about the decision they made, and whether it was right or wrong.

I will defend any bodies right to have a horse (or any animal for that matter) humanely destroyed. At the end of the day people make choices based on their situations - and they have to live with it.

I wish more of us could be in your situation - if that were the case many, like me, would have several horses standing in a field eating their heads off!

Your holier than thou attitude is really starting to grate.
 
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Quoting Wagtail:
However, take my situation for example. If I put my boy to sleep because the vet says he is in pain, then I get my £5k insurance money.
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No you only get paid out if the vet says that it would be inhumane to keep your horse alive, as another poster said, the vets have VERY strict guidelines on this issued by BEVA. I had to have my 10 yo PTS last week - he was in some pain which was only going to get worse, but there was no chance of a LOU claim.

I am amazed at how many posters think that having a horse PTS means that you're not a horse-lover. Horses are not sentient beings, they don't think about the future, they live for the present. As long as they are well-treated during their lives, then there us no shame in giving them a quiet, dignified and peaceful end without putting them through a possible life of pain, stress, and bad ownership.
 
Until we know both sides of the story I don't think anyone can pass judgement, we only know from 1 person who may or may not know the whole story, maybe there was a valid reason for the horse to be put down that the OP isn't aware of or maybe there isn't a valid reason and the person concerned isn't as much of a horse lover/rider as other people, maybe the owner tried to get it into a rescue charity and they weren't able to take it as they are all full. I agree with the people who say PTS is a better option that running the risk of a horse being passed pillar to post. I have a 23yo who is costing me a fortune in vets bill's, however I am lucky enough to have a job (well 2 actually, but that's just incase of adversity as another poster put on the thread!!!), however if I lost my job I would have her PTS rather than sell on, there are no guarantee's that whoever I sell her to would treat her correctly (see the other thread on here about someone who sold their horse and then discovered it was being neglected, she was lucky enough to eventually manage to buy the horse back, but what if she hadn't been in a position to do that).
As someone else pointed out there are too many horses and not enough people with sufficient knowledge/funds to look after them all to the standard that should be acceptable.

If you look at the OP's other posts on other threads they do come across as rather agressive and confrontational which is why I would want to know both sides of the story before making a decision, however at the end of the day it still isn't my decision and I'm dreading the day I have to take a decision like this.
 
R.I.D said:
What business is it of yours as to what she does with her own horse? Absolutely none - FACT! Grow up.
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Wagtail said:
What a stupid post.
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Why is that a stupid post? It seems perfectly accurate to me. Just as it is your decision to keep your mare who by your own admission is bored and suffers flare ups that you can only react to so she is in pain until she makes it evident that she needs your help and a gelding that you need the vet to tell you whether he is field sound, it is the owner of the arab's decision not to keep it, for whatever reason she chooses and to dispose of it in any manner she sees fit.

And yes, it's none of my business what you do with your horses, just as R.I.D. says that it's none of the OP's business what the arab owner does with hers.

Nope, still can't see what's stupid about the post.
 
I don't get it - it would probably cost this woman more money to PTS this horse than it was actually worth on the open market or even to the meat man ! How can it have been a financially driven decision ?? Even if she had given it away to someone who thought they could work through its problems she would have been better off in the purse department which shows she must have given it just a little thought !!
 
Originally Posted by Holly Hocks
It would appear we are in a minority.....

Wagtail said:
No, I don't think that we are, thankfully. It just seems that way as the PTS brigade just shout the loudest. :rolleyes:
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Why does there have to be 'brigades' ?

Does it make one person better than another because they choose to do something the other does not approve of, or wouldn't do themselves?

How on earth can anyone make a judgement on an anonymous person based on the say so of another anonymous person? We don't know the facts and the figures, the ins and the outs of the situation.
 
Enfys said:
Why does there have to be 'brigades' ?

Does it make one person better than another because they choose to do something the other does not approve of, or wouldn't do themselves?

How on earth can anyone make a judgement on an anonymous person based on the say so of another anonymous person? We don't know the facts and the figures, the ins and the outs of the situation.
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Well said. The implication that there are those who are "genuine" horse lovers as opposed to a loudly shouting brigade of those who think that SOMETIMES being pts is a reasonable option (to avoid a worse fate or because they can't all afford to pay for a retired horse's keep) is really offensive.

I'd rather believe that all of us here are horse lovers, that's WHY we're here. We may sometimes have opposing views, or be better or worse off but we all want to do the best we can by our horses.
 
i would just like to say thanks to holly hocks and lionman

as to AMYMAY and ENFYS and FLOCK i have alredy said that the horse had nothing wrong with she was just not a plod along what the woman needs and may i also add. she is a very good friend of mine for many years and its just i disagree with what has happened and just wanted some views.

and IVE NOT FLOWN OFF ANY WHERE just been to work ( for myself i might add) you might want to try it instead of spending so much time on here being RUDE to people:D
 
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jemima_too said:
Why is that a stupid post? It seems perfectly accurate to me. Just as it is your decision to keep your mare who by your own admission is bored and suffers flare ups that you can only react to so she is in pain until she makes it evident that she needs your help and a gelding that you need the vet to tell you whether he is field sound, it is the owner of the arab's decision not to keep it, for whatever reason she chooses and to dispose of it in any manner she sees fit.

And yes, it's none of my business what you do with your horses, just as R.I.D. says that it's none of the OP's business what the arab owner does with hers.

Nope, still can't see what's stupid about the post.
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It's a stupid post because it does not calmly present an argument. It is aggressive, infantile and unconstructive. The OP asks 'Would you do this?' then presents her view of a situation. That is what this forum is for, to discuss issues that are important to horse people. We all have our views. To say something is 'none of our business' could be applied to everything we discuss practically. What about the other contentious isses such as flash nosebands, draw reins, Parelli etc? If we all go around making posts such as 'It's none of your business, grow up!' then how stupid is that? The post makes the poster sound like an old fish wife, hence it's stupid, IMO.
 
tinpot said:
i would just like to say thanks to holly hocks and lionman

as to AMYMAY and ENFYS and FLOCK i have alredy said that the horse had nothing wrong with she was just not a plod along what the woman needs and may i also add. she is a very good friend of mine for many years and its just i disagree with what has happened and just wanted some views.

and IVE NOT FLOWN OFF ANY WHERE just been to work ( for myself i might add) you might want to try it instead of spending so much time on here being RUDE to people:D
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In an ideal world - no one would breed anymore foals, we would get financial help from the government when we lost our jobs and had to decide between buying hay or baked beans and anyone who wanted a horse would go to a rescue center to get one and offer it a forever home even if it tries to kill you / doesn't do it's job - but that's not where I live I'm afraid, perhaps if you can let me know how much the tickets are I'll save my pennies up and come and join you it sounds great !

... BTW did you offer to take your "friends" horse off her and keep it indefinately / find it a new home even though you had no use for it ?? No ??? Then you are just as bad as her ! It is a shame for this poor mare that she didn't get to live out her years but many many worse things could have happened to her

You can tell you are new here if you are letting Amy upset you - I agree with her 98.9% of the time even when her "matter of fact" replies are aimed at me. She doen't hide her opinion and to be honest I thought that was the whole point of a forum ...? To get peoples honest opinions - or did you just come on here to get us all to sl ag your mate off ?

PS I also work for myself ! not that is at all relevent to the subject you chose to post about
 
Wagtail said:
It's a stupid post because it does not calmly present an argument. It is aggressive, infantile and unconstructive. The OP asks 'Would you do this?' then presents her view of a situation. That is what this forum is for, to discuss issues that are important to horse people. We all have our views. To say something is 'none of our business' could be applied to everything we discuss practically. What about the other contentious isses such as flash nosebands, draw reins, Parelli etc? If we all go around making posts such as 'It's none of your business, grow up!' then how stupid is that? The post makes the poster sound like an old fish wife, hence it's stupid, IMO.
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i have never said anything to this woman about what she has done i just thought i would just see what other people felt god i really wish i never bothered. as i have never before came in to contact with so many horrid people. apart from a select few.

and as for being a old fish wife could of only come from a nasty sour sow
 
I have to say that I am increasingly shocked by the hardened attitude of some of the posters on this forum. .
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amymay said:
Not hardened - just practical.
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I would agree with amymay, but also add that if some people could take their rose tinted glasses off they may see that it is not hardened but brave and not just practical, but often the most respectful thing that us owners can do.
 
Ladylina83 said:
PS I also work for myself ! not that is at all relevent to the subject you chose to post about
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I've noticed on forums that when there's an arguement, accusing each other of "not having a job" or being "endlessly online" or "not having a life" is a popular if somewhat silly thing to do.
 
tinpot said:
i have never said anything to this woman about what she has done i just thought i would just see what other people felt god i really wish i never bothered. as i have never before came in to contact with so many horrid people. apart from a select few.

and as for being a old fish wife could of only come from a nasty sour sow
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Actually I don't think Wagtails post was aimed at you !! .... perhaps a sorry might be in order to said nasty sour cow who has supported your post all along !
 
tinpot said:
i have never said anything to this woman about what she has done i just thought i would just see what other people felt god i really wish i never bothered. as i have never before came in to contact with so many horrid people. apart from a select few.

and as for being a old fish wife could of only come from a nasty sour sow
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I think you'll find it wasn't your post which was being discussed Tinpot!
 
tinpot said:
i have never said anything to this woman about what she has done i just thought i would just see what other people felt god i really wish i never bothered. as i have never before came in to contact with so many horrid people. apart from a select few.

and as for being a old fish wife could of only come from a nasty sour sow
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:confused: I wasn't referring to you. I think you need to read the whole thread again. :rolleyes: This forum ... honestly :D
 
FionaM12 said:
I've noticed on forums that when there's an arguement, accusing each other of "not having a job" or being "endlessly online" or "not having a life" is a popular if somewhat silly thing to do.
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I have to agree there. It goes hand in hand with the attacks on grammar or spelling and usually means the poster is running out of proper arguments.
 
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