Would you expect a deposit refund?

Caramac71

Caramac71

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Early this year I booked my daughter in for pony club camp and paid the deposit, which is approx 1/3 of the total price. We are a very small pony club branch and the organiser is well aware of the problems we've been having with our horse.

Balance was due at the start of this month. At the beginning of June I emailed the organiser to explain horse was in vets for a bone scan and we were awaiting a diagnosis, and I was unsure if she'd be ok for camp. As soon as we had the diagnosis and knew she wouldn't be back in ridden work this summer, I emailed again and said I would have to withdraw my daughters place.

We were offered various horses to borrow for camp but it's not practical as our own horse needs to be lunged daily and has a physio session during the week of camp, so my daughter needs to be at home for this. Also money is very tight as we have spent our insurance vet limit already, and still have £300 of physio and at least £800 of vet treatment to pay for before September.

I have asked if it is possible to have my deposit returned in the circumstances (which would be very helpful as is the equivalent of 2 physio sessions). I was told that if there was any money left over after camp, then I might get something back, but it was a very vague, non committal reply and I got the impression I would be unlikely to get anything returned. I was disappointed but accepted this - however I was talking to a couple of people yesterday who said with a vet certificate I was entitled to insist on a refund and they were quite horrified I hadn't been offered it.

I just wondered what people's views were on this?
 
You pay the deposit to secure your place, they are rarely refundable. If someone else takes your space, the organisers could be kind and refund it but I personally wouldn't be expecting a refund, no.
 
I mostly think if deposits were refundable there would be very little point in them.

Exceptions do exist though, like a horse failing the vet.
 
No I would say not. Especially as you knew it was possible you might not be able to go. If it's a small club money is probably tight for them too. Could you find someone to take your place and maybe give them half the deposit as a discount so you still get something?
 
webble said:
No I would say not. Especially as you knew it was possible you might not be able to go. If it's a small club money is probably tight for them too. Could you find someone to take your place and maybe give them half the deposit as a discount so you still get something?
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Deposit was paid a long time before horse started having problems. I just notified the organiser as soon as I was aware her problems might not have been fixable, at least in the short term, as I was aware the balance was due next month.

There is no one else that could take her place, almost everyone else e is going and if they aren't, it's because they don't want to.
 
ester said:
I mostly think if deposits were refundable there would be very little point in them.

Exceptions do exist though, like a horse failing the vet.
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I wouldn't necessarily say that a deposit to buy a horse was comparable to this, though - those deposits are generally accepted to be subject to vetting anyway.

Unfortunately OP, I think this is just "one of those things" with horses. I wouldn't expect my deposit back, no. Sorry.
 
ester said:
I mostly think if deposits were refundable there would be very little point in them.

Exceptions do exist though, like a horse failing the vet.
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Caramac71 said:
In this case, horse cannot be ridden (under vet instruction) for at least 6-8 weeks and camp is less than 4 weeks away.
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I'm pretty sure Ester was talking about the circumstances of paying a deposit to buy a horse and it failing the vet.

Sorry but the point of a deposit is to both secure your place AND to cover any costs should you not be able to go. That's the risk you take with horses I'm afraid.
 
Ok thanks everyone. As I said originally, I just accepted what I was told until a couple of people said yesterday that deposits should be refunded if a vet certificate provided, but clearly from the replies this isn't the norm.
 
I think the organisers are being fair. I am guessing that the camp is organised by people who are not specifically paid for the organiser role, as in Volunteers for the role. They will book appropriate Instructors and facilities according to the numbers they expect, hence the non refundable deposit. By not paying the full fee you are not being charged for food or other "things" that you are not using, just for the overall booking of facilities and Instruction, the infrastructure of camp, from the deposit.

They sound like they are being fair if they say that if there is any money left after the camp they will give what money they can back.

If the camp fund gives you your deposit back even if that leaves them in defect, who do you propose gives you their money?
 
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Don't think you'd have had a returned deposit in our PC either. The money is used to pay for things like temp stabling (in our case) and still has to be paid for even if you can't go. Yours may have paid up front for other things including instructors and they will actually be down money they expected to have by you having to drop out and maybe have to wait and see if they can afford to refund you.

It's a real shame :(
 
I would have thought a % return on production of a vet cert would be a fair answer here
PC are a nightmare at the best of times so it's likely you won't see anything I'm afraid :(
 
I organise a riding club camp and the final cost depends on how many people are attending and the costs of instructors as we divide the cost of instructors by the number of people. Everybody knows the rough cost when they commit but we give them a final balance after they've paid deposits. If someone drops out before we've finalised the instructors and costs we give their money back and rearrange groups - maybe dropping an instructor if it drops the numbers below a minimum. If they drop out after this we use their deposit to cover the shortfall in the instructors costs.
 
Consider it from the other point of view. If your child and pony were attending and you got a letter through a few weeks after the balance had been paid saying that someone had dropped out and therefore everyone needed to pay an additional amount would you be happy?

Can't your daughter take up one of the offers of another pony to ride? Surely you can handle the vet without her there, or she could mis a couple of hours on that day.
 
Sometimes insurance covers the loss of entry fees (unfortunately mine didn't when my horse 'tweaked' his back with entry fees to the tune of £350 down the drain). If yours does then maybe you could get a refund through them.

Unfortunately I do agree that unless the place can be filled then you have no chance of a refund.
 
jemima*askin said:
Can't your daughter take up one of the offers of another pony to ride? Surely you can handle the vet without her there, or she could mis a couple of hours on that day.
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I'm not horsey, my daughter lunges the horse herself daily, I'm pretty sure I'd be rubbish at the daily lunging and exercises! Physio is coming one of the days and daughter wants to be around for that, as physio is teaching her exercises to do with the horse and giving instruction on what she needs to be doing. I'd have to pay someone to lunge the horse daily while she's away for 5 days, and take time off work on 2 days to take daughter and a borrowed pony to camp, as well as obviously paying the balance of money for camp - so it just isnt really financially viable to spend more money in order not to "waste" money if that makes sense.

I wasnt having a gripe about what I'd been told, about if there was any money left from camp then I may be able to get some money back and I dont feel I've done anything wrong in politely asking if there is any possibility of this under the circumstances. If they were able to refund the money I'd be delighted as I have a lot of ongoing expense. As I've said previously, I only started the thread as a couple of people had said to me that they felt with a vet cert if was normal to get a full refund and I thought I'd get other opinions on that.

This year camp has more attendees than on the 2 years previously, as we are a small branch there is no limitation to the number of places. Whoever wants to go, pretty much can. We had withdrawn the place before numbers, groups, instructors etc had been organised (I know this because I am on the committee). There are other members that have signed up and paid for camp since we withdrew, and there are still some members that have said they are going but paid nothing yet, despite the full balance now being overdue. I'm not like this, if something is due I pay in advance, and if we have ever had to cancel from a rally or competition then I have always paid our share. I know this isnt the case for everyone.

We did have a place on an area training day when the horse was in the vets, and we cancelled this with a couple of weeks notice and the organiser was kind enough to refund our money (they offered, I didn't ask!). I've never been in this situation before so I really wasnt sure what was normal procedure.
 
Perhaps the PC branch should have made clearer T&C's available at the time of booking, then all would know the position in the event of such circumstances.
 
Caramac71 said:
I'm not horsey, my daughter lunges the horse herself daily, I'm pretty sure I'd be rubbish at the daily lunging and exercises! Physio is coming one of the days and daughter wants to be around for that, as physio is teaching her exercises to do with the horse and giving instruction on what she needs to be doing. I'd have to pay someone to lunge the horse daily while she's away for 5 days, and take time off work on 2 days to take daughter and a borrowed pony to camp, as well as obviously paying the balance of money for camp - so it just isnt really financially viable to spend more money in order not to "waste" money if that makes sense.

I wasnt having a gripe about what I'd been told, about if there was any money left from camp then I may be able to get some money back and I dont feel I've done anything wrong in politely asking if there is any possibility of this under the circumstances. If they were able to refund the money I'd be delighted as I have a lot of ongoing expense. As I've said previously, I only started the thread as a couple of people had said to me that they felt with a vet cert if was normal to get a full refund and I thought I'd get other opinions on that.

This year camp has more attendees than on the 2 years previously, as we are a small branch there is no limitation to the number of places. Whoever wants to go, pretty much can. We had withdrawn the place before numbers, groups, instructors etc had been organised (I know this because I am on the committee). There are other members that have signed up and paid for camp since we withdrew, and there are still some members that have said they are going but paid nothing yet, despite the full balance now being overdue. I'm not like this, if something is due I pay in advance, and if we have ever had to cancel from a rally or competition then I have always paid our share. I know this isnt the case for everyone.

We did have a place on an area training day when the horse was in the vets, and we cancelled this with a couple of weeks notice and the organiser was kind enough to refund our money (they offered, I didn't ask!). I've never been in this situation before so I really wasnt sure what was normal procedure.
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If other people have booked and paid since you cancelled, then that would change it for me, they could be seen to be taking your place.
 
Can't comment on pony club camp but I've done a few adult camps and the deposit is always non refundable even though in some cases they have waiting lists and your space will be filled.

The only way round it is to fill the space yourself as you can sometimes transfer it.
 
I hope they will give it back to you, costs must have been calculated on numbers attending, so if there was a waiting list the costs will stay the same. Perhaps it will come back to you afterwards, like they said it might.
I don't organise camp but we do have it here at home and the set up costs are huge, so maybe that is what they are waiting until it is all over.
Good luck with your horse.
 
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