Would you expect this? Barefoot panic

Buds_mum

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Do excuse a panicy post :o

Buddy had been on box rest for 4 weeks, he had his shoes removed for surgery exactly 5 weeks ago.

He was trimmed around a week and half ago (regular farrier just rasped round to tidy up i believe) He was still on box rest at this stage.

He is on rubber mats to the door and a thick bed of bedmax shavings in 3/4 of his stable.

While on box rest he was allowed small walks and in hand grazing, the typical place to graze was the stony drive. He has been walked on the roads. He never showed any foot soreness, except on very stony parts.

He is now being long lined either down the road or in the arena, he has been comfortable in this, haven't ridden him yet.

He is now allowed turnout, he is a grass field which hasn't been grazed over winter but has sparse to poor grass coverage on it.

He has been turned out for a week now, building up to today where he spent 5.5 hours out with a friend, they seem to come in a little hungry (snatching at his net, generally showing his 'hungry face').
They do quite a bit of cantering around, but have calmed down a little now but still quite happily cantering up the field ect. It is neither hard nor very soft ground.

However he is becoming tender on the concrete yard, shorter stride more than anything.

Feet are no warmer than I would expect, warm coronet, cool toe, no distinct pulse.

When picked out his frog seems to have a small secretion of black type substance (thrush perhaps? Bed been kept very clean following surgery however still a warm moist environment)

Frogs are shedding slightly, sole is also cracked and heel is hard.

Main thing. the tenderness on hard ground.

Would you expect foot soreness after the hooves are exposed to A LOT more exercise and use in more than a month??

He spent 5.5 hours moving today compared to the half hour or less he would of been out of the stable less than two weeks ago...

Of course the panicked woman in me is going 'OH MY GOD HE HAS LAMINITIS FROM BEING ON THE GRASS AAAARRRGGGHHHH'

But the rational side is saying, he is a little tender, but he hasn't 'used' his feet in more than a month, plus he has had shoes on for more than a year before that...........

He is not over weight, can feel ribs, hip bones.
Wouldn't say it is warm enough yet for huuuge influxes of spring grass....
Is this part of the 'transition'??

Wine and oreos for those with any slaps or even experience :o
299230_10151795133144989_18456619_n.jpg


Recent pic, will get shots of his tootsies tomo (please ignore the badly positioned surcingle!!!)

ETS He is little chubbier than I like, but is on very small hard feed of speedi beet (spoonful soaked), hifi molasses free (handful) and top spec lite. This has been cut down as I was 'pity' feeding him (high fibre mix) while he was in just to boost his sprits abit as he went very off all feed and even hay following surgery)

He has a large net of late cut haylege on a night time.

Any barefoot friendly feed advice welcomed.
 
Last edited:
Do excuse a panicy post :o

Buddy had been on box rest for 4 weeks, he had his shoes removed for surgery exactly 5 weeks ago.

He was trimmed around a week and half ago (regular farrier just rasped round to tidy up i believe) He was still on box rest at this stage.

He is on rubber mats to the door and a thick bed of bedmax shavings in 3/4 of his stable.

While on box rest he was allowed small walks and in hand grazing, the typical place to graze was the stony drive. He has been walked on the roads. He never showed any foot soreness, except on very stony parts.

He is now being long lined either down the road or in the arena, he has been comfortable in this, haven't ridden him yet.

He is now allowed turnout, he is a grass field which hasn't been grazed over winter but has sparse to poor grass coverage on it.

He has been turned out for a week now, building up to today where he spent 5.5 hours out with a friend, they seem to come in a little hungry (snatching at his net, generally showing his 'hungry face').
They do quite a bit of cantering around, but have calmed down a little now but still quite happily cantering up the field ect. It is neither hard nor very soft ground.

However he is becoming tender on the concrete yard, shorter stride more than anything.

Feet are no warmer than I would expect, warm coronet, cool toe, no distinct pulse.

When picked out his frog seems to have a small secretion of black type substance (thrush perhaps? Bed been kept very clean following surgery however still a warm moist environment)

Frogs are shedding slightly, sole is also cracked and heel is hard.

Main thing. the tenderness on hard ground.

Would you expect foot soreness after the hooves are exposed to A LOT more exercise and use in more than a month??

He spent 5.5 hours moving today compared to the half hour or less he would of been out of the stable less than two weeks ago...

Of course the panicked woman in me is going 'OH MY GOD HE HAS LAMINITIS FROM BEING ON THE GRASS AAAARRRGGGHHHH'

But the rational side is saying, he is a little tender, but he hasn't 'used' his feet in more than a month, plus he has had shoes on for more than a year before that...........

He is not over weight, can feel ribs, hip bones.
Wouldn't say it is warm enough yet for huuuge influxes of spring grass....
Is this part of the 'transition'??

Wine and oreos for those with any slaps or even experience :o
299230_10151795133144989_18456619_n.jpg


Recent pic, will get shots of his tootsies tomo (please ignore the badly positioned surcingle!!!)

ETS He is little chubbier than I like, but is on very small hard feed of speedi beet (spoonful soaked), hifi molasses free (handful) and top spec lite. This has been cut down as I was 'pity' feeding him (high fibre mix) while he was in just to boost his sprits abit as he went very off all feed and even hay following surgery)

He has a large net of late cut haylege on a night time.

Any barefoot friendly feed advice welcomed.

You are quite right he is a bit on the chubby side, but I suspect the grass is the issue. If you keep him off the grass for a couple of days and he improves that will help you decide.

I'd drop the hifi and the top spec lite and replace with a decent mineral supplement such as Forage Plus or Pro Hoof.
 
I agree you must consider laminitis as the cause and it cant hurt to treat your horse as a lami case. I would also treat all 4 feet for thrush if you suspect that.

Better people will be along shortly, but thats my advice.
 
Sorry I haven't got any comments about your many query, but feedwise I wouldn't feed Topspec Lite unless you know for sure that his diet is already high in selenium (TSL only has 0.6mg selenium in a daily ration for a 500kg horse). Instead I'd be thinking of either Topspec antilam or Topspec comprehensive (which have 1.5mg selenium in a daily ration for a 500kg horse), but might be worth you giving Nicola Tyler a ring at Topspec and seeing which she recommends.

Sarah
 
Thank you for replies so far. It's all very stressful, he has to go out to improve his healing and reduce swelling however I would prefer him to not be on grass. Will have to discuss with y/o or maybe whip muzzle out if no other option....
 
I would put money on it being the grass but thrush and sore feet from too much work are also viable options...

Have to ask though.. Thought he had nudey feet ;) :p
 
So dumb question alert!!

Grass causing sensitivity.... Is this a form of low grade lami?

Leg_end his tootsies are indeed nudey ;) and a pain in the bum it is!

Shall I change the thread title?
'nudey foots panic!' :P xx
 
What was the surgery for, might have some bearing? Unless you are one of the few people who have any grass I would be very surprised it was grass related laminitis, unless your horse has cushings (but not trying to be an alarmist here). If he was used to having shoes on before and they have been cantering around the field and it has been a bit hard due to frosty ground, may be a little footsore. You could rule out a bit of thrush by scrubbing feet with hibiscrub or warm salt water (epsom salts are good) and see if that improves. Is one foot worse than another? Good luck
 
Surgery was to have his hock joint flushed and bone chips removed after a kick.
He is only 5 so unlikely to be cushings related....
Neither foot is worse, fronts more sensitive, all 4 same temp.

Someone mentioned to me that on barefoot horses you notice any form of gut stress through footiness much more readily than on shod horses.... And suggested a probiotic supplement... Plus some milk thistle for his liver...

I also want to remove him from the grass first and foremost, just in case!
 
I would suggest that it is a combination of several issues.

Thrush being one of them - scrub his feet with dilute milton daily for a week then every other day until the problem resolves (dilute one part milton to 3 parts water)

Increase in exercise being another...

Diet being another. You say he gets a large haynet of haylage a night... how much does this weigh? he should get roughly 2% of his bodyweight in forage a day (including bucket feed and taking into account grazing too) My 17.2hh, 600kg boy gets about 10kg haylage a night maximum...another issue for me would be the top spec. I think he would be better off on a good quality vitamin and mineral supplement to support hoof growth - pro hoof from progressive earth or Forage plus's hoof balancer would be the best... some horses are also sensitive to Alfa-a so worth cutting this out (he doesn't need chaff)...
 
Thank you cbfan, some brill advice. Have never weighed his forage, so will look into starting doing so.
Topspec lite a no go then? Will have look at some alternatives....

How on earth to know how my kgs a horse grazes? Is it just a guesstimate?
I will start disinfecting tomorrow thanks, have some Milton in the tack room :)
 
ROTFLMAO I had to look again to find the surcingle!!! Well done for what you have achieved so far....yes, even a little grass can have an effect!! And movement is SO important!! Would it be possible to take him out for walks with short grazing spells as you come across some 'rough' grass? He looks like a lovely 'good doer'!! Good luck.
 
Lucy's right - he's a bit of a porker isn't he!!!! Cob types - impossible to keep weight off at times - I have two porkers and they need a lot of hard work and strict diet to manage!

I'd consider geting a full ACTH, Insulin and Glucose done - more young horses are showing cushings now.

And it never hurts to treat it as laminitis. Never the wrong thing to overreact and treat it as if he was LGL.

One thing - if he has thrush that will make him tender to land on his heels and he will short stride - make sure they are clean - I have fallen into using SeptiClense hoof rot spray and it actually works very well.

The other thing to think abot is that his heels and frog may be getting too dry - shavings are very absorbent - bedmax is not as bad as the powdery stuff, but absorbent nonetheless - it may be that they are getting too dry and cracking.
 
Thank you cbfan, some brill advice. Have never weighed his forage, so will look into starting doing so.
Topspec lite a no go then? Will have look at some alternatives....

How on earth to know how my kgs a horse grazes? Is it just a guesstimate?
I will start disinfecting tomorrow thanks, have some Milton in the tack room :)

Weighing forage is an absolute godsend in weight control. Once you get used to feeling how much say 8kg weighs, you won't need to weigh it every day as you'll just know how much to feed but it is a good practice to get into, and stick to it.

You do have to guestimate how much they graze... and just supplement that with haylage as you see fit but if they are busy grazing all day, there generally isn't the need for them to be stood in scoffing their faces constantly when in, and they generally learn to pace themselves. My boy tends to make his ration last all night, even though he used to get double the quantity...

Re the top spec lite, it has sugar in it as do many pelleted feeds... thats why many barefoot people don't like it. It also does't have the 'optimum' balance of vits and mins...
 
The problem with feeds like TopSpec and Blue Chip is that you have to feed it at a certain rate to get the RDA and that is too much for the horse.

Better to use something like Forage Plus from Sarah Braithwaite or Pro Earth from Ross and Mel Barker and stick to a fibre/forage based feeding approach.
 
Lucy's right - he's a bit of a porker isn't he!!!!
He is I also agree but look at that beautiful face. He is stunning.
If exercize and weighing his hay doesn't get his weight shifting try soaking it. I find this really helps with weight loss that is hard to shift.
 
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