Would you give a full clip?

[Tnavas]

I don't think you are in any position to penalise someone for fully clipping for convience when you are stabling horses for 23hours a day all year round for your convenience, that's a much bigger welfare concern IMHO.

Consider what your horse does when you turn him out on a rainy day, the North wind is blowing, there is no grass left and much of the paddock is fetlock deep in mud. He will stand and eat the hay you've provided then find a sheltered spot to stand until he's brought back in. Now does that sound nicer than being in a warm draught free stable with dry cosy bed to lie in.

 

[Shoei]

I don't think you are in any position to penalise someone for fully clipping for convience when you are stabling horses for 23hours a day all year round for your convenience, that's a much bigger welfare concern IMHO.

Sometimes I wish this forum had a like button

 

[ben456]

I don't think you are in any position to penalise someone for fully clipping for convience when you are stabling horses for 23hours a day all year round for your convenience, that's a much bigger welfare concern IMHO.

i agree, i often feel sorry for horses that spend the majority of their day in the stable. i totally understand that sometimes there is no other choice, but i think it is often just to have more horses at one place. i would prefer for a clipped horse to be out for some time during the day with adequate ruggine. but the point is you say 'sadly there are many owners who do things for their own convenience ' when surely most of the time stabling a horse for most of the day is for their owners convience?

 

[Shoei]

Sometimes I wish this forum had a like button

i agree, i often feel sorry for horses that spend the majority of their day in the stable. i totally understand that sometimes there is no other choice, but i think it is often just to have more horses at one place. i would prefer for a clipped horse to be out for some time during the day with adequate ruggine. but the point is you say 'sadly there are many owners who do things for their own convenience ' when surely most of the time stabling a horse for most of the day is for their owners convience?

I agree... if the grazing is so poor then it sounds over grazed. But it is the situation with so many yards and a lot of people don't have a choice I'm sure. As it is my ridden horse is currently clipped (legs on), still out 24/7, well rugged and warm, plenty of grass as I have 4 on 12 acres so still resting 8 acres, high natural hedges and a large sheltered barn if they wish to go in it. I clip because he gets hot when ridden but certainly wouldn't be classed as a heavy workload in the traditional sense, and it is more convenient for me.

I think the majority if not all HHO's ride for pleasure and not a necessity, so why make it harder than it needs to be for both horse and owner. Who hasn't seen a sweaty horse scratching and shaking when its sticky, I can't imagine that is pleasant.

There are some great rugs out there now that move with the horse, don't slip or leak ect if my horse wasn't happy with the situation he would certainly let me know.

 

[conniegirl]

Consider what your horse does when you turn him out on a rainy day, the North wind is blowing, there is no grass left and much of the paddock is fetlock deep in mud. He will stand and eat the hay you've provided then find a sheltered spot to stand until he's brought back in. Now does that sound nicer than being in a warm draught free stable with dry cosy bed to lie in.

Well for a start my lad is fully clipped, well rugged and turned out during the day. In the horrible rain we had this weekend he could be found happily grazing with his companion in the middle of his field. Our fields are well managed so have almost no mud at all, no need for hay in the field as we still have a good amount of grass and he will happily have a good gallop round and play with his friends. Most horses are happier out, mine is never in any hurry to come in and whilst he comes to call, he does so at the walk!

Sorry but keeping a horse in a stable for 23 hours a day is CRUEL.

My lad is actualy clipped all year round normaly as he is a hot horse who will sweat standing still and I'm asthmatic which is very easily triggered by horse hair. So If I wear a mask and clip him I do not have to deal with scary attacks whilst I'm at the yard.

Oh and if your rugs are leaking then they are either crap quality or you havnt looked after them properly, If your ruggs are slipping then they are either a poor fit for your horse, crap quality (so badly balanced) or badly fitted.

 

[Tnavas]

Conniegirl, you are obviously one of the lucky ones to have grass and no mud in winter.

But it's not the case for the majority, which is why livery yards refuse turnout in winter.

The horses I mostly worked with were full liveries, owned by others, my own young horse went out during the day, and in bad weather was free schooled in the indoor arena. We had no horses with vices, they were calm and content, kept their condition and were well behaved to ride - partly because they weren't needing to be over fed to keep them warm. They got a minimum of an hours roadwork everyday, were thoroughly groomed, they did not need to be washed, sweat was allowed to dry and brushed clean. School horses were trace clipped and wore a wool lined New Zealand rug.
Some of the stabled horses were clipped out but not all, it depended on what they were in work for, the hunters were clipped out, saddle patch and legs on, some blanket clipped which is probebly the best clip for the majority of horses, at least they have something to keep their back warm when being ridden.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I'd be inclined to do just a little bib clip, for now, and see how she is with that.

I have a traddie cob with a coat that would put a thatch to shame; had him blanket clipped this morning, simply because he's in fairly regular work, albeit hacking, but sweats up profusely simply because he is so hairy. He also has sweet itch so I keep him clipped throughout the year just so's he doesn't get too hot and exacerbate his SI. Also, because he's a cob I guess, he does get itchy scabby legs, and so its much easier to see what's you're dealing with if the legs are clipped out too. I've just turned him out for the night in his heavyweight winter rug just to be sure, as it is going to be cold during the night!

With my Welsh D mare, until I retired her (which I've done this summer), I'd do her a chaser clip; her coat was quite light but still she got quite sweaty, and this seemed to suit her, protected her back & bum area yet did its job in keeping her cooler round the girth area, she'd then have a light turnout and she was fine till all but the worst weather i.e. gales & rain, when she'd go into her winter turnout jobbie.

Currently the Welshie Mare mentioned above, and my (loan) Exmoor pony, are turned out naked. I might review the mare's situation if/when it gets wet and windy as she's got arthritis and I will naturally be precious over her, so she might have a light-fill turnout if needed, we shall see.

 

[Auslander]

Proof positive that clipped horses are very happy living out, if they have good rugs, and plenty to eat (and a supply of Optrex, just in case!)

 

[conniegirl]

Conniegirl, you are obviously one of the lucky ones to have grass and no mud in winter.

But it's not the case for the majority, which is why livery yards refuse turnout in winter.

The horses I mostly worked with were full liveries, owned by others, my own young horse went out during the day, and in bad weather was free schooled in the indoor arena. We had no horses with vices, they were calm and content, kept their condition and were well behaved to ride - partly because they weren't needing to be over fed to keep them warm. They got a minimum of an hours roadwork everyday, were thoroughly groomed, they did not need to be washed, sweat was allowed to dry and brushed clean. School horses were trace clipped and wore a wool lined New Zealand rug.
Some of the stabled horses were clipped out but not all, it depended on what they were in work for, the hunters were clipped out, saddle patch and legs on, some blanket clipped which is probebly the best clip for the majority of horses, at least they have something to keep their back warm when being ridden.

We have grass and no mud because my yard owner manages her grazing sensibly, doesnt over stock and does care for it.

So its ok for you to be cruel to horses just because they are not yours? sorry pull the other one it has bells on it. When exactly did those poor horses get to express natural behaviours? when did they get to interact with other horses, groom each other, play? all extremely important for a horses mental health not just thier physical one.

I would suggest that those horses were well behaved because they were mentally shut down automatons. maybe you should do some research about "learned helplessness"
A lack of vices does not mean you have a yard of mentally healthy horses

 

[Leo Walker]

I don't think you are in any position to penalise someone for fully clipping for convience when you are stabling horses for 23hours a day all year round for your convenience, that's a much bigger welfare concern IMHO.

Indeed!

Sometimes I wish this forum had a like button

We can give Rep which is similar but not as good!

We have grass and no mud because my yard owner manages her grazing sensibly, doesnt over stock and does care for it.

So its ok for you to be cruel to horses just because they are not yours? sorry pull the other one it has bells on it. When exactly did those poor horses get to express natural behaviours? when did they get to interact with other horses, groom each other, play? all extremely important for a horses mental health not just thier physical one.

I would suggest that those horses were well behaved because they were mentally shut down automatons. maybe you should do some research about "learned helplessness"
A lack of vices does not mean you have a yard of mentally healthy horses

Absolutely! Sometimes I am stunned by what I read on here

 

[mytwofriends]

My horse is retired. He's 25 and has Cushings and arthritis so I clip him to keep him comfortable.

He's not the best doer, so I don't want to risk leaving him unclipped and unrugged. He grows such a very thick coat (did so pre-Cushings too), which would take an age to dry if it were to get wet, and he'd risk getting a chill and he'd definitely stiffen up. He'd be too hot in a rug with his thick coat, so I clip him for for his benefit. He gets a chaser, then it all comes off in April to benefit us both. Him, the heat - and me, the mass coat shed.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I will be clipping some of mine out for convenience at the end of February. I did consider doing it on Sunday there but the thought of constant rug changes for 4 put me right off lol! My own either live out or go out all day unless it is particularly vile when they go out for an hour or so before they demand to come back in.

As many know I work in a racing yard and we turn the majority of the horses out every single day. They have their own individual paddocks to keep them safe but they always have horses either side of them. The loonies go out with the companion (I would love to say cob as Degas does look like one now and he has dinner plates for feet but he was actually a Cheltenham Festival placed horse in his day 😂😂😂 ). A couple of the horses don't cope with being out in bad weather so they simply stay in that day and will go out as soon as the weather is acceptable to them. We only have one who refuses to be out in winter once the wind and rain hits so it is safer to keep him in and happy. They are all clipped out bar legs and a half head and are kept will rugged.

I don't agree with yards that don't offer even a couple of hours turnout a day in winter. It's not fair on the horses.

 

[MyBoyChe]

I do. I have a highland who is a very good doer and very fluffy, he is ridden 3-4 times a week through winter, hacking only and no really fast work, however, he gets warm just doing trot work. He has been blanket clipped 3 times already, is getting one more like this tomorrow and then will full clip from Xmas onwards. He is still out 24/7, wearing a sheet at night, hasnt once felt cold, still getting no extra feed and hasnt lost any weight or condition. Once I full clip him he will wear a slightly thicker rug overnight and I can bring him in if I need to, Im lucky that I have the time and the inclination to faff about changing rugs and all that goes with a fully clipped horse. I absolutely hate the spring moult, it takes forever and he and I resemble a scabby sheep for months, covered in grey fluff and tatty. He looks and Im sure feels better for being clipped out.

 

[conniegirl]

I will just add here that ive just returned from the yard having spent the last 45 mins attempting to catch my horse in the dark. The little oik untied himself whilst i was mucking out, then proceeded to take himself out to his paddock!
he is fully clipped, the temp here is -2 C currently, he is in a medium weight rug, he had a haynet but he still made it very clear that he wanted to go out!

 

[laura_nash]

Mine is in very little work over winter and is clipped out (except the legs and head). He was sweating just stood in the field, he grows a totally over-the-top coat and it never really gets that cold here - maybe 3 frosty nights per winter. I have masses of grazing and rarely need to feed anything extra and all my fields have lots of natural shelter, as far as keeping weight on is concerned that is certainly never an issue for him. Last winter he got fat in January! He's a warm horse generally who rarely seems to notice the weather.

 

[laura_nash]

Conniegirl, you are obviously one of the lucky ones to have grass and no mud in winter.

But it's not the case for the majority, which is why livery yards refuse turnout in winter.

Big assumption there! How do you know Conniegirl is lucky, maybe she is just fussy and prepared to prioritise her horse over her convenience or her purse. Personally I moved from a lovely yard with good facilities to a rather unkempt farm for better winter turnout, and then finally moved to a different country and a semi-derelict house with no bathroom partly so I could get my own grazing so mine could be out practically full time. So it makes me pretty annoyed when people say I am "lucky" to have winter turnout.

Riding is expensive and sometimes compromises do need to made to a horses welfare so the owner can enjoy their hobby, but you can't accuse someone who clips their horse of prioritising their convenience over the horses welfare if you choose to keep a horse stabled full time for your convenience (and it is for your convenience unless its on vet grounds, and even then I am deeply sceptical about a lot of prescribed box rest).

Since I've taken mine barefoot and become a "hoof nerd" I've become much more aware of the need for movement to keep a horses hooves healthy. I can see a difference in mine's hooves after just one week stabled. I now just don't see how any horse that is stabled for long periods of time can have anything approaching healthy hooves. Since I've developed a dust allergy I've also become much more aware of the terrible air quality in most stable yards, I can't believe it can be good for any horse to live in that full time.

As far as I'm concerned, if you can't find a livery yard in your area with daily winter turnout most of the time then you move, don't have a horse, rent your own place, try and club together with others to pay for a track / all weather turnout, put them on full / grass livery further away and only see them at the weekend etc etc. What you don't do is compromise your horses health and well being and then say "well its better than xxx". Its better than starving and beating them too, doesn't mean its okay.

 

[Tyssandi]

My mare is beginning to be quite fluffy. She is a cob and she going to start being ridden about 2 times a week. There will be weeks though where she isn't ridden. I also want to clip her because I find winter coats a nightmare to come off and make so much mess on clothes. What do you think about them being clipped so that they don't have to shed their winter coat next year?

No not a full clip, maybe a blanket or dealer clip but def not a full clip. Clip according to work and horses living condition's IMO, otherwise the horse is more naked purely for the owners sake not the horses.

One thing peeves me is horses ridden twice a week who are living out and have a full clip so they have no knickers or bum fluff to keep them warm in the wet and windy / cold conditions.

 

[Tnavas]

Big assumption there! How do you know Conniegirl is lucky, maybe she is just fussy and prepared to prioritise her horse over her convenience or her purse. Personally I moved from a lovely yard with good facilities to a rather unkempt farm for better winter turnout, and then finally moved to a different country and a semi-derelict house with no bathroom partly so I could get my own grazing so mine could be out practically full time. So it makes me pretty annoyed when people say I am "lucky" to have winter turnout.

Riding is expensive and sometimes compromises do need to made to a horses welfare so the owner can enjoy their hobby, but you can't accuse someone who clips their horse of prioritising their convenience over the horses welfare if you choose to keep a horse stabled full time for your convenience (and it is for your convenience unless its on vet grounds, and even then I am deeply sceptical about a lot of prescribed box rest).

Since I've taken mine barefoot and become a "hoof nerd" I've become much more aware of the need for movement to keep a horses hooves healthy. I can see a difference in mine's hooves after just one week stabled. I now just don't see how any horse that is stabled for long periods of time can have anything approaching healthy hooves. Since I've developed a dust allergy I've also become much more aware of the terrible air quality in most stable yards, I can't believe it can be good for any horse to live in that full time.

As far as I'm concerned, if you can't find a livery yard in your area with daily winter turnout most of the time then you move, don't have a horse, rent your own place, try and club together with others to pay for a track / all weather turnout, put them on full / grass livery further away and only see them at the weekend etc etc. What you don't do is compromise your horses health and well being and then say "well its better than xxx". Its better than starving and beating them too, doesn't mean its okay.

I worked for nearly 50 years in the equine industry - I've worked in livery yards, racing stables, studs, riding schools, hunter yards and private yards - my own horses currently live out year round, naked and with bare feet and apart from their annual shots have not seen a vet for near on 30 years, and that included a riding school of 32 horses and ponies. My horses are well cared for and healthy - they don't get fed crap processed feeds with a multitude of rubbish in them, they get fed straight oats, chaff, linseed and sugarbeet. I've had one pony develop Cushings at 22years old - out of the many horses I've owned - so I really don't think I've done too bad ajob of caring for my horses.

As to your comment you made when I said that conniegirl is lucky - she obviously has some land that is of sufficient area to enable her to keep her grazing good and turn out in winter. I'm English and know how wet and muddy the paddocks can get especially if you are on a livery yard, where the majority of landowners have as many on the place as they can to get as much money as they can - unfortunately its often what happens.

I now live in New Zealand in an area that has mild winters and a lot of space and I'm lucky that I have year round turnout that only occasionally gets muddy.

In all the years I worked with stabled horses we rarely ever had a problem with feet, they were oiled twice daily, the horses were worked on hard ground - mostly the road which also kept their feet healthy. My current horse which I have had since a 6mth old foal is now 13, worn a set of shoes a week in all that time but struggles with anywhere that has gravel. Yet the shod horses don't mind.