Would you insure with these exclusions?

[DorothyJ]

Hi, I am in two minds about whether I continue to insure my mare or just put some money aside to cover vets bills instead. Would welcome any thoughts!

My mare was investigated for back soreness and has slight lumbar impingement at L2/L3 (loin area). She has had a corticosteroid injection and is doing well. I am building her up as much as possible and all is going well. She seems very happy in her work and the vet is pleased that the inflammation and pain has gone. Hopefully she will be back better than ever and we will be back out competing soon.

Insurance has covered back x-rays and a bone scan and accepted the claim. Of course now though they have placed exclusions on her policy, which I have questioned the extent of, but they are unable/unwilling to restrict at all.

As she has had some back treatment, all of her back, spine and pelvis is now excluded (not just lumbar as I requested)

My mare has a small splint so now all 8 splint bones are excluded. (I queried this and suggested just the leg with the splint, but again no go)

As the bone scan showed mild IRU (radiopharmaceutical uptake) in both front pedal bones, all 4 hooves are now excluded.

So basically her hooves, splint bones and entirety of her spine now not insured. Insurance was costing me £420 per year (standard insurance, not loss of use) but I suspect the premium will go up now I have made a claim. Would you continue to insure or self-insure instead? If I continue to insure she remains covered for colic surgery and any ligament/tendon injuries.

Any thoughts most welcome! If I shop around to look for a policy with less extensive exclusions, would I need to have her 5 stage vetted again? How does swapping insurers work?

Many thanks

 

[Elvis]

Just out of interest who are you insured with? My insurance is up for renewal soon and I'm thinking the same as you. I've made 3 claims this year, 1 which involves the back, just like your horse.

Another question did the bone scan of your horses back show anything extra the x-rays didn't? I've only had x-rays taken and it showed 2 close spinal processes but not yet touching.

 

[Elbie]

The trouble is, it is possible if you go elsewhere instead of renewing, the new insurers may put the exact same exclusions on (albeit you may have a cheaper premium). The increase in premium will happen to all policyholders, not just you because you had a claim. Animal insurance doesn't tend to have a no claims bonus, as it may deter people from seeking treatment. They generally go up due to increases in vet charges and how many claims have been paid in general.

I'm not suprised they put the exclusion on the spine but I would imagine this could be removed after 6 months/a year if no further issues arise. I'm suprised they excluded splints on all 4 legs and also her feet. They generally place an exclusion for both fore or both hind (whichever end is affected) to exclude any counter injuries that may occur. For example, if a horse injures a LF tendon, the chances are increased of a RF tendon injury happening.

I would argue the exclusion for splints in the HL and would also argue the hoof exclusion completely. Can your vet write a statement to say that your horse is sound and has no sign of foot lameness? If they won't remove it I would at least suggest they remove it after 6 months if your horse hasn't actually shown any sign of lameness.

 

[DorothyJ]

Hi, it's with Animal Friends. I have to say they accepted the claim quickly and are very good at rersponding promptly, so no qualms on that front. My mare had a spine x-ray first which was fine. Then she had a ligament scan and it identified some possible degeneration. Vet advised 2 weeks lunging work on pessoa. I did that but she was still sore, hence we did the bone scan.

If I could turn back time I would ask vet whether bone scan can be done on back alone, rather than full body. No idea if this is feasible or not. Problem with full body bone scan is that it shows up absolutely everything, whether it has ever or is ever likely to cause a problem or not, then wham bam, on go the exclusions!

 

[dixie]

I doubt the premium will go up - I've made many many claims and always been surprised they've not risen significantly but if you think about it they are now only covering you for the bits that haven't gone wrong.
As to whether to insure, I suppose it depends on how good you are at putting some money to one side. Could you get the premium reduced by paying a higher excess or maybe reducing the value of the horse? My horse was quite similar to yours in exclusions but I was pleased he was covered when he got ulcers as I certainly got my money's worth there.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I wonder who you are insured with, I managed to get my horse's two hinds removed from exclusion when she had treatment on her forelegs which resulted in exclusions. This was with Petplan and was done immediately with a phone call.

I no longer insure, having decided that it wasn't worth the premiums and now enjoy the freedom to call a vet out for treatment and make decisions about what tests are useful etc without meeting the restrictive practice of insurers.
However, I am able to meet reasonable costs that occur and anything hugely expensive treatment costing several thousand, just wouldn't happen mainly because of the likelihood and also because rehabilitation and full recovery may mean it might not be in the horses best interests.

 

[starry23]

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as I think I might have similar issues when it comes to renewal in April (puncture wound/joint inflammation/ligament injury and minor colic episode so expecting a fair bit to be excluded).

I think it depends (like someone else said) how good you are at putting money away and also what you want/need to be covered. After the year I've had with mine I won't put her through another operation so I'm unlikely to really need a great amount of cover for vet fees (which I have reduced from £4000 to £2000 already), I also reduced her value too (although they'd only reduce it by a certain percentage of the original value despite the fact my horse is of very little monetary value now). That brought the premium down by about £7/month. If you can find things to remove or reduce it could bring the price down. If you've got your tack on the insurance it might be worth removing it (the small print sometimes states it needs to be locked up in a room/building with a 5 lever mortice lock or something daft like that and that can make that hard to claim for).

ETA I have a friend whose vet wrote to her insurance company and got an exclusion lifted (something to do with his hind legs I think) as he hadn't been lame on them for a few years, it may be that in a years time you could get some exclusions lifted. I'm not sure what would happen if you didn't insure for that time though...

 

[chestnut cob]

My premiums never went up for my last horse, despite making about 13K of claims in total (if not a bit more). The list of exclusions just got longer each time until I gave up insuring for anything but accidental visible injury.

I would speak to your vet and insurer to see if they will accept a letter from the vet in support of your request to remove the exclusion for pelvis etc. If your vet is happy to say there are no problems there, they might remove it. I usually find that if you make enough fuss, insurers will at least reduce exclusions. Also, I'm not sure the horse is likely to throw a splint on a another leg just because she has one already. I wasn't aware there was a causal link. Again, speak to your vet and ask if they will support you.

I would also query the feet - if there was nothing on the back feet on MRI/ investigations then your vet should support you to get that exclusion removed too.

 

[DorothyJ]

Just out of interest who are you insured with? My insurance is up for renewal soon and I'm thinking the same as you. I've made 3 claims this year, 1 which involves the back, just like your horse.

Another question did the bone scan of your horses back show anything extra the x-rays didn't? I've only had x-rays taken and it showed 2 close spinal processes but not yet touching.

Yes, the bone scan is much more specific than an x-ray - I guess your vet will advise you if he/she can't make a diagnosis from the x-ray alone. Hope it all works out for you.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I wouldn't reinsure with lots of exclusions. I got LOU for my WB and was offered to reinsure, but his back would have been excluded and any lameness that could have been attributed to that too. He has had an eye injury and ulvcer scoping and treatment so I knew that the eye and stomach would be excluded and the premiums were sky high as the insurers knew I couldn't insure him elsewhere with LOU so I declined. I had more than £14k of claims in 18 months and now 2 years on I haven't had one vet bill for him apart from his annual innoculation.

 

[dianchi]

Personally I would ask them if they could be lifted following a vet report.
The pedal bones- has any lameness ever been seen? If not then you should be able to get this lifted.

With the spine/pelvis- after 12 months you should be able to get this reduced down to just the lumbar region providing no other issues.

Again with the splint- has there been a claim or lameness? If no lameness seen and vets can back this up (medical history) then you should be able to get these lifted.

Hardly anyone Challenges exclusions correctly and just accepts them, I used to work for petplan so I know what can/should get lifted!

Best one is COLIC! If you horse has non operated colic and the claim is under £1000 after 12 months you can request that the exclusion is removed on providing vet history and vet letter.

Challenge them people!

 

[DorothyJ]

I am speaking to the vet later this week and am going to raise the possibility of ulcers with him, as my mare is so girthy and difficult to keep weight on - a few people have suggested it to me. If he thinks its worth scoping her I will get it done. I'll claim that and then of course everything digestive will be excluded. There really won't be that much left of her then to insure!

 

[DorothyJ]

Personally I would ask them if they could be lifted following a vet report.
The pedal bones- has any lameness ever been seen? If not then you should be able to get this lifted.

With the spine/pelvis- after 12 months you should be able to get this reduced down to just the lumbar region providing no other issues.

Again with the splint- has there been a claim or lameness? If no lameness seen and vets can back this up (medical history) then you should be able to get these lifted.

Hardly anyone Challenges exclusions correctly and just accepts them, I used to work for petplan so I know what can/should get lifted!

Best one is COLIC! If you horse has non operated colic and the claim is under £1000 after 12 months you can request that the exclusion is removed on providing vet history and vet letter.

Challenge them people!

My mare is 1/10th lame behind under flexion but sound otherwise and vet links this to her back. She has had nerve blocks to identify cause of soundness and they didn't reveal anything specific, hence vet linking it to back soreness. It has also improved as her back has improved.
Splint caused her no problem at all when it arose last year, she remained sound and just had a week off work. It hardened extremely quickly. No vet treatment required. No claim for it. She is now 10 years old and this is the one and only splint she has ever had, she was blemish free until the age of 9. Vet has already told me that she is no more prone to throwing further splints than any other horse and I have repeated that to insurer, but to no avail.

I have challenged the extent of all 3 exclusions but Animal Friends say that that is what Underwriters require them to do. I can try getting a supportive letter from the vet and will speak to him about this.

Thank you all for your advice and thoughts.