Would you move yards temporarily?

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Charlie31

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I'm being a bit deliberately vague here but I'm looking to move my horse. There are some issues where he is kept at the moment and although I wouldn't say they are welfare issues in any way, there are things that make me worry about him. He's getting older now and I just think I could do better for him.

All of the yards in my area would involve some sort of compromise and there is no magical perfect place for him. Fundamentally though, all of the places that I have identified as potentially suitable and with compromises I'd at least be willing to try are full. Some have long wait lists and some are only small so I'd only need one person to leave but that may never happen, or at least not for a long time. So although you never know, I'm not really expecting anything to change soon.

There are a couple of options that I probably wouldn't really consider as permanent options for one reason or another but they would at least get us out of the current situation and would work for the time being. I don't know whether to go for a temporary move, with the option to stay permanently if everything was amazing, or just to sit tight for now and reassess in the spring. My horse seems to be happy any settled where we are and I'm worried about moving him and unsettling him for what I think is likely to not turn out to be a permanent home for him, and then him having to cope with moving again. On the other hand I think getting through the winter where is now will probably be hard for both him and me and think everybody might be happier all round if we just take the plunge.

I think it is mostly the winter at the current place and things will be easier come spring, but there's an awful lot of winter left to go!

What would you do?
 
Yes, I've done it before. One temporary yard I stayed at for another 8 years and another temporary move was 5 years 🤣

On paper neither temporary yards should have worked long term but in reality they worked much better than expected so we stayed.
 
How old is he? If things are genuinely bad to the point of compromising his welfare, I would consider a move. I realise you might not want to share too much info but more would be helpful here - in terms of the degree of current concerns, and the other temporary options. Your post is a bit confusing to me in that you say you worry, and could do better for him, and that winter will be hard on you and him, yet he is happy and settled at the moment. Perhaps - and I mean this kindly - you need to figure out whether his welfare is compromised, or whether he is actually ok for the time being.

Often though even older horses (perhaps especially older horses) can settle quite well in a new place and he doesn't know it's temporary. If you really feel that you and he won't be happy for the rest of winter, another yard offers you a better situation for him and you don't have anything better than that lined up in the foreseeable future, I would probably move him.

Maybe write a list of pros and cons if you can't share more here?
 
Thanks everybody, this is all really helpful. It does reflect my thinking but it is perhaps making it more concrete for me having people's thoughts written down.

So to try and give more detail, he currently lives out. He has a large hedge that he can use for natural shelter but no man made shelter and I don't have an option to bring him in overnight if it's wet and horrid. His field has taken a real pounding in the wet run up to Christmas and there is no pretty much no grass left at all. It's quite muddy in places and slippery in others and will probably get worse before it gets better given the current forecast. It does drain pretty quickly but I think it will take a while for the mud to dry properly now. There's also nowhere dry for him to lie down so I have no idea whether he's sleeping or not.

He does have hay in the field but where it goes is getting very muddy indeed. In the interests of fairness I think should be clear that the whole field is not a mud bath and I categorically would not leave him standing there in mud 24/7 if that was the case, but there is enough to worry me. He has also arthritis and I thought it would be better for him to live out but I think it makes it worse when it's wet and muddy. I do think he is happy and he seems to like living out. I also think it doesn't occur to him though that the ground conditions could be making him more uncomfortable. I also worry about him in the night when the weather is foul, but obviously I have no way of knowing whether he's miserable at the point or completely oblivious.

One of the options I'm considering would involve me stabling him at night again and I was initially worried about this given his arthritis but I'm starting to wonder if it would at least be worth trying it as it might actually be the lesser of the evils. I suppose I'm wondering whether he is okay for the time being and I just need to hang fire for until one of my preferred options comes up, with a view to sorting something out before next winter. Or would I better pulling him out of the field and seeing how he copes with being stabled as it might well actually be better for him to be in the dry.

Abacus said:
How old is he? If things are genuinely bad to the point of compromising his welfare, I would consider a move. I realise you might not want to share too much info but more would be helpful here - in terms of the degree of current concerns, and the other temporary options. Your post is a bit confusing to me in that you say you worry, and could do better for him, and that winter will be hard on you and him, yet he is happy and settled at the moment. Perhaps - and I mean this kindly - you need to figure out whether his welfare is compromised, or whether he is actually ok for the time being.

Often though even older horses (perhaps especially older horses) can settle quite well in a new place and he doesn't know it's temporary. If you really feel that you and he won't be happy for the rest of winter, another yard offers you a better situation for him and you don't have anything better than that lined up in the foreseeable future, I would probably move him.

Maybe write a list of pros and cons if you can't share more here?
Click to expand...

Thanks, this is a really helpful post and I hope what I've said above answers some of your comments. I am really quite confused myself about what to do for the best for him and there are things to consider for myself too, like the amount of help available at the different options. I do think you've raised a valid point though about him potentially settling well in new places. He's a pretty happy go luck chap and generally has settled well when I've moved him in the past. You're probably right about that being more so as he's got older too as he's definitely more self assured the older he's got.

I think I'm going to write a list of pros and cons as you say and I think I will try and at least explore the possible temporary options in more detail. It might be that the answer becomes obvious to me.
 
I would've moved him. The conditions you described are not legal here and while I don't always agree on our laws, I think there are reasons for this one. I think it is important they have somewhere dry and decently soft for them to lay down to sleep, perhaps especially young and old ones. It can't be good for an arthritic horse to walk around in mud all the time, either.
 
Just going to throw into the mix that many years ago I looked after a 20 yo horse with arthritis who did absolutely fine living out in a similar situation to yours. He was moved to a part livery yard and stabled. When I next saw him on a visit he was awfully stiff, as he was only turned out 10:30 -3 (it was winter tbf, I don't know what the summer regime was). The owner moved him again because of this to live out with a herd and he was fine again, but did have bute for a couple of weeks, he was that bad. So, if you do consider moving him, be sure to check out the T/O hours and that they don't close it during bad weather 24 hour stabling IMO is as much a welfare concern as 24 hours in deep mud.
 
I moved yards several times last year via no real fault of my own, was at one for 3 months then the next one for about 6 weeks! Won’t go into the details but my horse was absolutely fine with the multiple moves..she settled in absolutely fine each time. I’m hoping we don’t have to move for a while now but it’s not a permanent solution as it’s too far for us really but like you am having to compromise! So I expect next year we will need to move again…it’s a blooming nightmare and I’m desperate for my own place so we don’t have to move!
 
I try not to move if at all possible, it's stressful for the horse and everything comes with a compromise, he might not adjust well to the change, you might hate it too.

Whilst what you describe sounds grim from a human perspective it doesn't necessarily mean the horses welfare is compromised or he's unhappy, there are so many unhappy horses in nice warm dry stables!

Its a shame we don't know how the weather will go. How much worse can your field get before you'd have to move him and how likely is that to happen - has it happened before? Can you improve the situation any - a straw island in a well chosen position can be all they need to make it a perfectly comfortable winter.

I hope you're able to make a decision that works for you both.
 
Since he seems happy enough with the current set up I would keep him where he is and wait for a place at one of the better yards before next winter. Get his name on the waiting lists then at least you should feel that you have made positive steps and worry less.
 
If he is sound, otherwise healthy and happy in himself I would leave him and wait for a place at one of your preferred options. Horses don't tend to mind mud as much as humans do. If he becomes stiff or seems like he isn't sleeping properly, then that's a different story.
 
You can mitigate .
Provide straw with some mud mats under them I know it’s best to put mats down when it’s dry but I know it can be done mid winter even if it’s not ideal.
If you do move him you must chose somewhere with guaranteed turnout for at least seven hours daily ,
And be prepared to medicate him if he gets stiffer.
 
If it puts your mind at ease while you decide what to do my 30yo lives out with hedges for natural shelter. He has stables bedded up with big straw beds down and hay, he never steps foot in them!

Around 1/2 field at the bottom is muddy (not deep sinking mud but lots of mud!), top half is dry & fine as it’s on a slope but they hang around in the muddy half a lot quite happily out of choice. I put hay out in box feeders to keep it off the mud.

When we’ve had awful weather recently I’ve had a wobble about wanting to bring him in overnight but I know he’s telling me very clearly he wants to be out. He comes in to be fed them can’t get back out quick enough!

He’s arthritic and I worry he’d seize up if stabled, he’s on 1 Bute a day now but doing brilliantly and still canters down for his tea every night which I credit to him being out 24/7.

I totally sympathise winter is tough though, I’m counting down the days to spring as it really is bliss where we are in summer. We’ve had a horribly wet November/December so I’m holding out that while it won’t get better for a while, it’s likely not to get any worse than it’s been!
 
I could have written this post a few weeks ago. I was in the same position with an older horse on grass livery and the winter turnout had turned into a mudbath. I tried to convince myself to stay until the spring but ended up moving her, and 2 weeks in its the best decision I’ve made purely for the effect it was having on my mental health. It’s not my perfect set up but its just until the spring when i’ll reevaluate the situation, I feel like the constant worrying took away all the joy of horse ownership for me and I’m much happier now.
 
Thanks for all the further replies on this. There are too many too comment on now but I think between them all you've pretty much covered all of the different thoughts I've had and demonstrated why it's not an easy decision at all! I do think the current weather and the forecast aren't helping as when it was dry over Christmas I was okay but now I'm worried about the impact of the rain on the field again and what happens if it doesn't stop raining. I think if we had no grass but it was dry I'd be okay and I think if it was wet but there was decent grass coverage I'd be okay. As much as anything though it's the fact that the minimal grass coverage means the field will get waterlogged and more slippery on the surface if the rain carries on, as well as there being minimal pickings for him for when the hay has run out. He is a good weight though and could stand to lose a little if I'm honest. And I do think he's getting enough hay and am aware that there are plenty of horses who stand in their stables for several hours with nothing to do once their hay has run out to do so maybe I'm being a bit over emotional about this. And I guess it's better to be able to wander around and at least have some minimal pickings than just be stuck in a stable and bored.

To answer some questions, he is a good weight as just mentioned and I'm as certain as I can be that he is sleeping. I don't very often see him lying down but never have done, even in the summer. He has the tell tale signs of mud on his front legs though and is bright in himself / doesn't seem tired as I'd expect if he wasn't sleeping. So I think he probably must be. He always seems happy in himself and I wouldn't say he's generally bothered by the rain. He's rugged appropriately as needed and he does have company.

I think I'm tempted to sit on for it a couple of weeks and see what impact the latest round of rain has. Realistically, the field is grim but it would also have to get quite a bit worse for me to consider it a welfare concern / need to move him immediately. Hopefully even though it's only January, we're far enough through winter that it won't get that much worse now, and it may even start to improve as we get more daylight, especially if we do get the odd dry or warmer day. If it gets worse and I can't stick it anymore then maybe I'll have to rethink.

If he does go anywhere involving stabling then it will definitely be somewhere where he can go out all day every day and somewhere that shuts down when the weather is bad or only turns them out for a couple of hours a day. For me that would be far worse than his current situation and I simply couldn't do that to him. Fortunately I know all of the yards in the area well enough to know which ones to avoid in this regard!

Jenny06 said:
I could have written this post a few weeks ago. I was in the same position with an older horse on grass livery and the winter turnout had turned into a mudbath. I tried to convince myself to stay until the spring but ended up moving her, and 2 weeks in its the best decision I’ve made purely for the effect it was having on my mental health. It’s not my perfect set up but its just until the spring when i’ll reevaluate the situation, I feel like the constant worrying took away all the joy of horse ownership for me and I’m much happier now.
Click to expand...

This is one thing I did want to pick up on though as I do find myself stressing and worrying a lot, certainly more than I did in previous winters where he was still out but we weren't in this situation for various reasons. Did you move your horse to a stabled set up or is she still out? And if she's in do you worry about her getting stiff? I don't want to swap one lot of worry for a different one! I guess part of me does think it's worth at least trying a place where he's stabled overnight in the winter as if he can cope with it then that gives more options, but if he can't then at least I know that and will have to move him again accordingly. On the other hand, several of the places I'm waiting for are places where either he can mostly live out and I can choose to bring him in to a stable as and when, or places with better fields/ ground and with shelters. So the other part of me things just hang in there and wait for one of these to come up, with the caveat that I don't know when that might be!

So clearly I'm still a bit confused but I'm leaning towards hanging on for now but with the proviso that I will definitely have to sort something else out before next winter.
 
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