Would you put front shoes on..

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Megibo

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My welsh D mare has been 'barefoot' for a couple of years if not more now. However, she's never NOT been 'ouch my feet' over stones etc and is only comfortable on the smoothest of tarmac roads which we rarely find. Would you put front shoes back on her?

My other mare was like this I just hacked her more and she improved whereas my current one never has. I'd prefer her not to have shoes on due to concussion etc but need her to be comfortable. She gets no hard feed at the moment, but even when on a 'barefoot diet' still felt her stones.
 
Im often curious as to why people only shoe the front two hooves? Horses have four hooves, of which the back two actually always wear down quicker, as horses power from behind, whether you believe the horses weight is on the forehand or not, the hind is equally as important as the front end...
 
1. Horses carry a higher percentage of their weight on the front hooves.
2. The hind soles tend to be more concave, so cope with being BF/unshod more easily.
3. Why would you shoe four hooves when shoeing two is all that is needed to make the horse comfortable?

Have you found a difference in wear between the fores and hinds to be common? I have three BF/unshod horses and I haven't noticed any difference in wear on my lot.
 
Would you walk around with one shoe on? Work horses were always shod all around but then i suppose you musnt be working your horses enough to realise the difference. I suppose if you are trying to save money then shoeing 2 instead of 4 works for you fine. The back hooves have a higher rate of fricton as they work to power the horse forward, so you might believe that the forehand is heavier thus needing shoes but actually the wear behind is just as important to take care of. And yes i see it all the time time where horses are shod on the front and there is plenty of hoof to trim back when they are due for shoeing, but then there is next to nothing left on the hind - people think that this means the hoof is perfect because it doesnt need trimming- but in fact its quite the opposite as the unshod hooves result in no hoof growth.
 
GypsyMare said:
but then there is next to nothing left on the hind - people think that this means the hoof is perfect because it doesnt need trimming- but in fact its quite the opposite as the unshod hooves result in no hoof growth.
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Umm, it's called self trimming - it's when the horses workload matches the growth of the hoof. Hooves grow constantly, infact the more a bare hoof works and is stimulated the more it grows, hence they often don't need trimmed as often as a horse normally needs shod. Of course a shod hoof needs trimmed, theres no self trimming going on with a shoe between the hoof and the ground.

If a bare hoof wasn't growing then the horse would soon get sore as the hoof would be worn to the point of discomfort.

My horses are barefoot and all in work, at the moment I am trimming them every couple of weeks due to the rate their feet are growing. Previously I trimmed less often because they did enough work on concrete to self trim, as explained above...
 
You have obviously completely missed my point- probably because i am replying to the thread maker- not discussing your horses needs - as she isnt sure whether shoes will help her foot sore horse- hinds will help for the very reason we are both putting accross, hoof wall wear. Obviously they wear down due to friction and this is my point.
 
It was theory that unshod hooves result in no hoof growth (as opposed to constant production and wear) that I found bizarre, not that people don't realise that four hooves wear down.

If the horse is comfortable on the hinds why would you want to put shoes on them?

My lads hinds IME do wear down faster than his fronts, due to the fact they are better constructed (better concavity and frogs) he is never sore on them, whereas he hasn't always been 100% in front.
 
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I'd tend to look closely at that horse

- are her mineral and vitamin intakes adequate (two horses on the same pasture may need quite different nutritional support)
- does he need a lower sugar diet
- what about PPID - maybe worth testing
- what's the trimming regime? Does she need less or no trimming?

I think too we need to get realistic about barefoot horses. If they gimp over a surface that is like caltrops strewn over a hard surface then that's just because they can feel their feet. We need to be reasonable here - if they don't have 7m of steel to lift them off the ground then sometimes they are going to feel their feet and we shouldn't be surprised.

A couple of mine will walk over a carpet of gravel no problem, but when there is a scattering of stones over a hard surface they don't like it and they worry about sliding. I don't like it either and I have boots on.

t's unfortunate that people tend to think that if a horse expresses discomfort over a challenging surface that it's a failure of barefoot and they should put shoes on. My lads are entitled to express dislike for a surface as much as I am! If I'm concerned about it I boot up.
 
ester said:
It was theory that unshod hooves result in no hoof growth (as opposed to constant production and wear) that I found bizarre, not that people don't realise that four hooves wear down.

If the horse is comfortable on the hinds why would you want to put shoes on them?

My lads hinds IME do wear down faster than his fronts, due to the fact they are better constructed (better concavity and frogs) he is never sore on them, whereas he hasn't always been 100% in front.
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I could probably have worded it better, as in a horse in constant work will naturally wear them so 4 shoes is going to help her footsore horse- i assume the horse is being worked perhaps it is not, maybe 2 works for a light worker or something that isnt being worked to the point of friction causing wear? *Edit (In which case why shoe two at all?) As i said earlier i have always wondered in the reasoning for two as a pose to four? As all four do count. So many people cant explain their reasoning and seem to think the hind are less important? I see what you are saying, you feel that your horses hinds are stronger which is fair enough. What does your farrier say about shoeing two?
 
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ester said:
It was theory that unshod hooves result in no hoof growth (as opposed to constant production and wear) that I found bizarre, not that people don't realise that four hooves wear down.

If the horse is comfortable on the hinds why would you want to put shoes on them?
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^ This.

ETA - I've just seen your rely GM. Don't forget that shoes damage hooves, so if the hinds cope bare, why shoe? I've known many horses just shod in front, it's quite a common thing and it's not really the same as a human only wearing one shoe.
 
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But wear is good for a bare hoof.

The OP's horse doesnt sound like it has sore feet due to them being worn down to far, this is incredibly rare in a correctly managed barefoot horse, but actually a management issue stemming from an issue with diet/minerals/metabolic problem. IMO the mangement needs looked at before I'd start hammering nails into it's feet.

ETA: the hinds are just as important, but they are different to the front feet and sometimes need different routine. Just because the front are shod it doesnt mean the hinds need to be too.
 
GypsyMare said:
As i said earlier i have always wondered in the reasoning for two as a pose to four? As all four do count. So many people cant explain their reasoning and seem to think the hind are less important?
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the reasoning is that many horses only get foot sore on the front feet so only the front feet need shoes.

if the backs are not an issue why put shoes on?

my mare is barefoot and I agree with brucea that i dont worry if my mare is cautious over stones on hard ground as long as she is sound on all other surfaces-my mare has had slightly thrushy feet we are just coming to the end of it and getting really good strong frogs now, she is only cautious with the one foot that is still slightly thrushy but shoes would have lifted the frog from the ground and made her sound but not solved the underlying issue it would have just got worse due to the frog not getting any stimulation.
 
Faracat said:
^ This.

ETA - I've just seen your rely GM. Don't forget that shoes damage hooves, so if the hinds cope bare, why shoe? I've known many horses just shod in front, it's quite a common thing and it's not really the same as a human only wearing one shoe.
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Many people do.. But can provide no explaination for as why when you ask them.
brucea said:
Wear is good. Wear stimulates growth and development of the whole hoof ;-)
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Absolutely! But it sounds like the thread maker is saying hers is now footsore, thats what i was replying to. :)
 
twiggy2 said:
the reasoning is that many horses only get foot sore on the front feet so only the front feet need shoes.

if the backs are not an issue why put shoes on?

my mare is barefoot and I agree with brucea that i dont worry if my mare is cautious over stones on hard ground as long as she is sound on all other surfaces-my mare has had slightly thrushy feet we are just coming to the end of it and getting really good strong frogs now, she is only cautious with the one foot that is still slightly thrushy but shoes would have lifted the frog from the ground and made her sound but not solved the underlying issue it would have just got worse due to the frog not getting any stimulation.
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Why do they only get sore on the forehand and not the hind? I really find it odd since the hind are renowned for wearing down quicker due to friction from powering behind. What does your farrier say about it? Good to hear your horse is getting better either way :)
 
twiggy2 said:
the reasoning is that many horses only get foot sore on the front feet so only the front feet need shoes.

if the backs are not an issue why put shoes on?

my mare is barefoot and I agree with brucea that i dont worry if my mare is cautious over stones on hard ground as long as she is sound on all other surfaces-my mare has had slightly thrushy feet we are just coming to the end of it and getting really good strong frogs now, she is only cautious with the one foot that is still slightly thrushy but shoes would have lifted the frog from the ground and made her sound but not solved the underlying issue it would have just got worse due to the frog not getting any stimulation.
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One of the most common reasons for barefoot failure is central sulcus infections - if you don't get a comfortable heel first landing it all goes wrong.

I tell folks to get in there with a strip of gauze and povidone and "Floss" - clean out the central sulcus - often you may be surprised by the speed with which the back of the foot decontracts when you do this. A closed up central sulcus will decontract to 5mm in a couple of weeks when you "floss the sulcus" every couple of days :-)
 
GypsyMare said:
Why do they only get sore on the forehand and not the hind? I really find it odd since the hind are renowned for wearing down quicker due to friction from powering behind. What does your farrier say about it? Good to hear your horse is getting better either way :)
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because.. as both faracat and I have both stated the hind feet are often better constructed with better concavity than the front.

Fwiw you will only get friction behind if your horse is not landing 'true' ie sliding as the foot is placed, otherwise I don't think, based on pure physics you get any more friction in front or behind- arguably you would get greater effects in front due to the increase weight.

I haven't asked my farrier about fronts only- as my horses shoes were removed for a reason (and prior to that he was shod all round, and I would have wanted to for studding purposes).

Faracat I'm not sure people do always need to understand why they do something if it works :).
 
I think that horse owners do need to understand hooves, plus nutrition and other things that contribute to hoof health EG hoof balance etc...

But sometimes not understanding 'why' doesn't matter. It depends on the situation, I suppose.
 
brucea said:
I think too we need to get realistic about barefoot horses. If they gimp over a surface that is like caltrops strewn over a hard surface then that's just because they can feel their feet. We need to be reasonable here - if they don't have 7m of steel to lift them off the ground then sometimes they are going to feel their feet and we shouldn't be surprised.

A couple of mine will walk over a carpet of gravel no problem, but when there is a scattering of stones over a hard surface they don't like it and they worry about sliding. I don't like it either and I have boots on.

t's unfortunate that people tend to think that if a horse expresses discomfort over a challenging surface that it's a failure of barefoot and they should put shoes on. My lads are entitled to express dislike for a surface as much as I am! If I'm concerned about it I boot up.
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Very wise words
 
GypsyMare said:
Why do they only get sore on the forehand and not the hind? I really find it odd since the hind are renowned for wearing down quicker due to friction from powering behind. What does your farrier say about it? Good to hear your horse is getting better either way :)
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my farrier reckons the majority of horses he does only have fronts due to the fact that the majority do not need hinds, because of the weight carrying ratio.

where do you get the impression that '...the hinds are renowned for wearing down quicker due to friction from powering behind'? in over 25yr of working with horses and having my own I have never heard anyone express that opinion.

the front feet IME wear quicker as they carry more weight and horses pull their bodies and weight with the front as well as powering from behind. if they all power soley from behind why would so many be so on the forehand? if those that were so on the forehand power soley from behind they would be pushing their front end in to the ground surely?

as the front feet carry more weight the hooves will feel more of what is underneath them as physics will play its part too.
 
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