Would you scope?

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HopOnTrot

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My mare had KS surgery last year (standing sedation), since then she has had a few poos that smell, her performance is still behind the leg despite lots of physio/rehab and hock injections.

I’ve owned her 12 years and have heard her wind sick once or twice but this weekend I’m sure I’ve heard her twice.

She is a good doer, never had runny poos, is never left without forage for more than a few hours. Mostly lives out but is muzzled most of the year (comes in for 4ish hours to eat soaked hay).

Logic tells me that she shouldn’t have ulcers but my heart is telling me to scope!

(Also, would they scope at home? She needs her hocks doing again too but I don’t think they’d want her to travel after hock injections? Vet hospital is 15-20 minutes away).
 
You can travel a horse just after having hock injections, so I can’t see why the horsepital couldn't do the scope and the jabs at the same visit. As you probably know, for scoping they’ll likely want her in overnight so they can starve her then scope her first thing in the morning. Or at least that’s what my horsepital does.

ETA Now I think on it I’m pretty sure that my mare had her front coffins medicated and then a scope on the one overnight visit.
 
I didn’t realise it was an overnight thing, I’ll give them a call to book in after half term.

I think insurance will cover it 🤞
 
My mare is being scoped tomorrow as we just can't get to the bottom of her 'performance issues'. I am only a couple of miles from the vet, so I will take her down tomorrow, but she has been 'starved' from 4pm today. Her appointment is at 11am. I have removed all bedding other than giving her a 'pee patch' as she has gone to wee a couple of times and stops as soon as it splashes which I don't think can be any good for her at all. She is currently heavier than I would like her, so I would never have thought ulcers, but I really need to rule it in or out.
 
They don't have to go in overnight if you can guarantee your horse doesn't consume anything once you leave them and they travel ok without hay your OK.

I'm lucky that it's a 20 minute journey to the RVC from me but the last pony I took had been starved all night and she kicked the crap out of my horsebox all the way.
 
And consider if your on a yard you do get other liveries that think they are being kind by feeding a horse that looks hungry and kicking the door unaware that it's not meant to have food
 
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We always leave ours in the clinic the night before as the clinic can keep them separate from those who are getting fed, whereas at home, they know the routine of the yard and even if they are stabled out of the way, they know exactly what happens around dinner and breakfast time and get upset.
 
I keep her at home so being on a yard isn't an issue, she is used to not being fed at the same time as the other one (she gets soaked hay so has to wait for it and whilst the other one usually has her feed waiting, she has to wait for it and do carrot stretches first), not a door kicker either, I'll speak to the vet and see what they prefer, to be fair she would probably drag me off to eat the verge when loading though! She has to be stabled for 24 hours after the hock injections so probably easier to leave her there

@nikicb there's a limited study that shows weight of the horse is not correlation to prevalence of ulcers as I was googling yesterday!

I'm not crazy thinking this though am I? She is such a polite horse and never pulled a face or anything when she was in pain with the KS, but from what I understand pain can cause ulcers so it's a possibility!



I've just emailed the vets to see what they say
 
We have had borses having hock injections and being scoped at home with a portable scanner so depending on your vets that could be an option. As others have said you just need to make sure they can be starved effectively for scoping.
 
HopOnTrot said:
I keep her at home so being on a yard isn't an issue, she is used to not being fed at the same time as the other one (she gets soaked hay so has to wait for it and whilst the other one usually has her feed waiting, she has to wait for it and do carrot stretches first), not a door kicker either, I'll speak to the vet and see what they prefer, to be fair she would probably drag me off to eat the verge when loading though! She has to be stabled for 24 hours after the hock injections so probably easier to leave her there

@nikicb there's a limited study that shows weight of the horse is not correlation to prevalence of ulcers as I was googling yesterday!

I'm not crazy thinking this though am I? She is such a polite horse and never pulled a face or anything when she was in pain with the KS, but from what I understand pain can cause ulcers so it's a possibility!



I've just emailed the vets to see what they say
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Oh that's interesting, thank you.

We just got back from the vets. It worked fine for us starving her at home, and actually probably less stressful for her than stabling at the vets as home is very quiet. I do have total control over feeding etc., so there was no risk of anyone else giving her something, as there may be on a livery yard. She was perfectly polite and well behaved, and travelled the 10 minute journey as she normally would.

She does have ulcers. While I am not over the moon that she has them, I am so glad we have found something at last, as all the other investigations so far have uncovered negligible issues, and it is getting very frustrating.

"The horse was well starved and there was good visualisation of the stomach.
Gastroscopy revealed a n area of Grade 2-3 ulcer on the lesser curvature and 2 small
haemorragic ulcers at the pylorus."

Good luck for your appointment next week @HopOnTrot 🤞
 
webble said:
How long ago were the KS and hock issues? Are they likely to be the cause still or could it be something else causing it?
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KS surgery October 2023 and hocks March 2024. Hocks are being rechecked when she's at the vets (although vet was always of the opinion they were only slight and very much in line with her age) we haven't seen physio since July but there was no reactivity anywhere and she was still not happy moving forwards. Up until August we were using a water treadmill weekly (trailer issues put a pause on that) and she was always up and down, some weeks she would be happy and other times she would be very lazy. Even though we aren't doing much ridden work, she is still doing stretches set by the physio and she wears a NEMS machine for 20 minutes after every ride

I'm also going to get her a new saddle as whilst the saddle fits, that's not to say that there isn't a better saddle, saddle fitter did suggest one so I'm waiting to hear back from her about sourcing one second-hand.


I'm not asking her to school or pushing her, all we have done recently is hack round the block, this is about 1.5 miles, I don't feel it is asking a lot but I also feel that there is pain somewhere that is causing her reluctance to go forward, she is reluctant to do more than about 4 strides of trot if it were a schooling issue maintaining trot would be nicer than being nagged to go forwards, so if being nagged is less discomfort than trotting, then there must be pain somewhere. A few hundred yards of trot on a good surface, not too soft, not hard, not rutted, shouldn't be too much to ask of any horse?

Does that make sense?
 
nikicb said:
Oh that's interesting, thank you.

We just got back from the vets. It worked fine for us starving her at home, and actually probably less stressful for her than stabling at the vets as home is very quiet. I do have total control over feeding etc., so there was no risk of anyone else giving her something, as there may be on a livery yard. She was perfectly polite and well behaved, and travelled the 10 minute journey as she normally would.

She does have ulcers. While I am not over the moon that she has them, I am so glad we have found something at last, as all the other investigations so far have uncovered negligible issues, and it is getting very frustrating.

"The horse was well starved and there was good visualisation of the stomach.
Gastroscopy revealed a n area of Grade 2-3 ulcer on the lesser curvature and 2 small
haemorragic ulcers at the pylorus."

Good luck for your appointment next week @HopOnTrot 🤞
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I know what you mean, you don't want to find issues but it's nice to have some answers!

What treatment plan has your vet suggested?
 
HopOnTrot said:
I know what you mean, you don't want to find issues but it's nice to have some answers!

What treatment plan has your vet suggested?
Click to expand...

Today she had an injection of Omeprazole which lasts a week. Then she is on a three week course of Gastroguard and sucralfate, followed by rescoping in four weeks time.
 
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Late to the party but scoping could give you answers. They can scope at home if the vet has the mobile unit. My horse has 6 weeks of injections. Depends where the ulcers are as to how effective the paste is... scoped clear after this course and now on esomeprazole as a preventative measure and pectigus so far so good.
 
Just dropped her off at the vets, hock work up today to see if they need injecting again, scope tomorrow and a worm egg count thrown in for good luck and with a broad "why is she reluctant to go forwards, feel free to run bloods" investigation. Fingers crossed we get some answers.

Good news is that she has lost 4kg since June and is the same weight she was at the end of October last year so at least she hasn't put on weight.
 
Two updates from the vets today. Firstly the orthopaedic vet has trotted her up, really pleased with her hocks and said she is incredibly sound for her age (21) and her back feels really good still, which is a huge relief.

Had another call from the vet that scoped her, she hasn't had any food since yesterday but they scoped they found smelly undigested food in her stomach, they are going to keep her in overnight and allow her water only today (with molasses to encourage her to drink) and rescope tomorrow, until they rescope to see if it has cleared they won't know what the issue is causing the slow emptying. I've just popped over to see her and they'd just finished checking her teeth, nothing there that could cause the issue and all teeth looked good.

Essentially until they rescope and if the food has cleared they won't really know what has caused the undigested food to stay in her stomach, but once they rescope tomorrow we can come up with a plan re: diet to see if we can help, there is a chance it could be caused by ulcers. Not the answer I was hoping for but at least they found something and my hunch seemed right.

So that's 24 hours of worrying booked in for me today :(
 
Just spoken to the vets, they rescoped this morning and there is still undigested food in the stomach, about half of yesterday's amount. Some ulceration was visible. They are doing her teeth whilst she's still sedated to ensure that they are the best they can be although there was nothing glaringly abnormal, they're going to tube fluids in and PEPSI (!) to help break up the mass and rescope this afternoon. They're also going to run bloods as it could be a sign of liver disease. Vet is going to come up with a diet plan although it sounds like her current diet (mostly grass with a muzzle and soaked hay) will have been the right sort of diet. Until they can get a good view of the stomach we still don't have the answers.

I also have a vomiting child at home, had a nightmare school run which took 1.5 hours so poor child has been stuck in the car with a sick bowl. Husband is under strict orders that I need to go to the vets for visiting hours this evening.

I've also found a new saddle second hand for sale locally which the saddle fitter said should be good but I don't want to go and pay £800 for a different saddle until I know the full extent of what's wrong.

So still no answers and I can't even take the dogs out for a walk to clear my head. Just been to check on daughter's pony who has been out on her own since Monday, thankfully next door have two horses out 24/7 in the adjoining field so she's got company, I just hope they don't get moved.

I just want my pony back home and feeling better
 
She’s now on her third scope 🫤

The stomach has finally cleared and they were able to see into the small intestine, there’s a “nodule” that is stopping the stomach from emptying and the lining of the small intestine is white and blotchy (“we’ve never seen that before.”)

Still no real answers but the plans are to medicate for ulcers and inflammatory bowel disease, she’s started Gastroguard and vet is writing a plan this evening of the other meds to be included. Also a low dose of steroids to bring down the inflammation. No hay and constant grass and sloppy alfalfa feeds. She’s currently on a small mash every 2 hours and handpicked grass, they are hopefully going to put her out for an hour in a pen tomorrow. Obviously as she is an EMS type this is all a risk so they’re going to do a blood sugar test (probably one that involves testing 2 hours after food as they don’t want to starve her again). Throw all this at it and rescope in 3-4 weeks. The vet also took biopsies of the small intestine with the scope but she’s warned me this may not be helpful as they only take a 1mm sample.

Best case scenario is a sort of inflammatory bowel disease that can be medicated. Worst case is cancer.

Local school is holding a fireworks display tomorrow so she’ll likely be home on Friday.

On the plus side she looks great, no real clinical signs and her bloods came back pretty normal apart from one slightly raised enzyme.
 
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