Would you shoe these or persist with bare foot

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Polos Mum

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Lovely TB off the track, 8 y/o had good post race hols now starting to do a little more and we've progressed to the point I think hacking would be really beneficial. Shoes off as soon as he came to me 4 months ago - sound on grass, very tentative over stones, OK on flat concrete.

My biggest concern is that they are chipping and getting smaller and smaller and we'll get to a point there is nothing to fit a shoe on if he can't cope with hacking as they are.
He's so thin skinned boots would rub him raw in 20 mins, leaving a headcollar on nearly did and I know nothing about boots.

To make matters worse just moved to new area and so I can't consult my wonderful farrier who I'd trust implicitly and often recommended shoes off

No hard feed, out 24/7 - handful of formula 4 feet when he comes in (3/4 times a week but ready to increase that now)

These are just one foot but they are all similar - shod pick is how they were 4 months ago

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4 months ago

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They won't wear away, work stimulates growth along with a good balanced diet and a decent mineral supplement. Grass is an issue at this time of year so limiting it, i.e. turning out in a school or bare paddock etc in the day would help the flatness and white line separation.

Ive got boots on my v thin skinned mare, old mac g2s with gaiters, and have had no rubs so far which I'm really surprised by given that she is wearing them every day as remedial treatment for pedal osteitis.

Whereabouts have you moved to so I can try and find you a trimmer?
 
If, when he was shod, he often stood with one front foot forward like he is in the photo, then he's not a horse I would ever put a shoe on again.

Are you worried about the feet being small, or just that they won't be able to take a shoe? I find small feet very strong and easy to manage.

I look at those photos and just feel sad that you would give up the grand job he's made of correcting his own foot balance when the task is only half complete. But if you need him to do more work quicker than he can do without shoes, then you'll have no option.
 
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I am getting used to his tiny feet, they are minute compared to 17.1 irish mutt and he's 16'2 - equally he does have pony size brushing boots so maybe not disproportionate.
My main concern is they look like they are falling to bits - hence my query to people who have done this before - is it OK that they look this bad?

I've just turned him out and he's flown up the field and chased the others round for some fun - so clearly they can't be crippling him when he is left to his own devises.
He does really need the turn out as he needed some weight - taped at 407 when he arrived !

He can carry on working just in the field where he is certainly comfortable - but for his interest in the job / to prevent boredom I think hacking would be better at this stage in his life. He needs to build up a lot before lots of circles are easy!

I'm in East Yorkshire
 
They don't look bad at all :)

Buy a rasp and take off the chips, and they look great.

Tarmac is a great conditioning surface, I'd just get him out hacking and see how it goes. The ottb horses I have taken the shoes off have been much easier when they had pony feet, I hope you will find the same.
 
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cptrayes said:
They don't look bad at all :)
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Many thanks - I guess that was what I was wanting to hear - will they always look like they are separating the layers at the bottom and be really short? or over time (3/6/12? months) will they look better?

I've never rasped myself - does that do anything other than make them look better - taking more off really short feet seems odd?
 
They are breaking up like that because the wall was too long. They will look better in time but better just to run a rasp round to tidy them up to stop the chipping. They aren't actually that short, you are just used to them being over long.
 
They will look even shorter than that by the time they are finished, probably. Barefoot feet can look shockingly short of you aren't used to them.

The separating layers is poor hoof quality. You have a better quality about half way down, and when that reaches the bottom it should stop. (Can you see that it is tighter to the foot?) If it doesn't stop, you need to look at mineral balance and removing carbohydrates from the diet. The better quality horn dates from when you got him, so what you are doing now seems to be suiting him.

Mostly it would make them look prettier to rasp them, but I do like to take off bits in case they tear more off with them, and a take back the peeling pieces so they don't get an infection stuck in the layers. You should be ok while the weather is this dry though.

If he stays sensitive on stones, then a lot of people find that a balancer from progressive earth on eBay or forageplus.co.uk will sort it. Other balancers have too much iron and manganese and to little copper, zinc and magnesium.
 
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Polos Mum said:
Thanks - can anyone send me or post a link to ebay or online place for the right kind of rasp - horsey shops here are rubbish and I'd like the right kind
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I buy ever sharp from farrierysupplies.co.uk

Start gently, they are awesomely sharp. If they won't sell you just one, I can send you one, but I think they do.
 
They really, really dont look that bad at all. This is the ugly duckling stage - there are lovely feet just waiting to bloom!

I've got 3 barefoot TB's, their feet do look small & short to a lot of folk however shod feet now look long and heavy to me, it's funny how your perspective changes.

We have a farriers rasp, £10 from a local tack shop, and just neaten up the edges when needed - there are loads of videos and books on the subject and it's amazing how quickly you can get comfortable doing it. There are a couple of erganomic rasps you can buy, Riders/Radius rasp I think they/it are called, but I found a normal rasp pretty easy to use. Roadwork is brilliant for neatening up feet too.

Diet is super important, don't underestimate the importance of what the horse is eating as it can have a massive effect on the foot.

There's lots to like about those feet - good luck!
 
Also I've never had an issue with boots rubbing, and my guys are all thin skinned TB's. The Cavallos are reasonably priced, easy to measure and very easy to fit, they would definitley be worth a try.
 
cptrayes said:
They will look even shorter than that by the time they are finished, probably. Barefoot feet can look shockingly short of you aren't used to them.
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Yes these feeties are not too short and will get shorter as more sole thickness and greater concavity raise the pedal within the capsule.

No one mentioned the heel underrun and the wrapped around event lines?

Ideally exercise on the road and hard abrasive surfaces but failing that, get the rasp out and stand up those heels by reducing heel height, put on a cosmetic roll all around to bring the toe back and to maintain a tight white line.
 
Or acquire an old one from trimmer/farrier which isn't quite as sharp as I did.

Do you have any smooth tarmac roads/grassy tracks he could go for short hacks on - all roads aren't the same in my experience, Frank definitely has a favourite one even at his stage!
 
cptrayes said:
Save edge,, not ever sharp :)
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You did have me a touch confused but now ordered - any good websites/ books for describing technique

Would anyone mind posting a pick of their 'looking lovely' feet so I know what I'm aiming for I can't imagine them getting any shorter without hitting blood and/ or hopping !

I'm new to the area so no idea on hacking, he is fine on the concrete yard so a swept road with tarmac might be OK - I will experiment in hand I think then if it's touch he won't be carrying me !
 
Def try in hand, I did a lot of long reining at the start ;)

trimming, only just started myself having a very gentle play with the rasp and using very light pressure. I'm lucky to have a very patient pony while I find out where I am most comfortable to have his foot- so I probably don't do it 'properly' and don't have flaking to deal with so someone else might help better with that/with links. There are a fair few youtube videos if you search for mustang roll but some are more involved than others.

This is a very much non-perfect but serve him well Frank foot post trim if that helps.

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Many thanks - that looks amazing - if we got half way to that I'd be thrilled. How long did that take you to get to? Yours don't looks quite as upright and boxy as Stan's. The bull nose (or whatever the right terminology is) is interesting does that allow him not scrape/ catch bits as the foot lifts - not sure I've seen them like that before but I can see how they'd get close to that shape with wear on roads.
 
that is a couple of years down the line, we started with

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I've also put that pic up to show you actual bull nosing- the convex outline of the front of the hoof wall - caused by reverse rotation of his pedal bones in his instance. - the profile straightened as the new hoof wall grew down.

The roll makes it easier for him to breakover (important for him as he possibly has DJD in his coffin joint) and if it were an issue help with the flaking/prevent too much being pulled off.

This is an old pic - you can see the event line from when we pulled shoes near the bottom of the wall, but it shows how as his feet grow between trims he doesn't maintain the roll himself - We do quite a lot of road work and I can't keep up with his growth using work! I think they are quite different to your feet but hopefully the pics might help.

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thanks - really interesting - I can see how I could become quite obsessive. The quality of yours always was pretty good even when the shape wasn't so nice. It'll be interesting to see Stan's when he's had 6/7 months without cereals to see if the quality improves any.
 
That is a mustang roll not bull nosing :) Its the way a wild horses foot looks on cadavers from walking miles and miles on different surfaces etc - what we all strive for and as you say prevents those untidy looking flakes and cracks. It generally comes with a lovely thick hoof wall :)
Mustang Roll
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Bull nosing
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Usually seen on hinds, and is the hinds way of expressing diet/metabolic/trimming issues as opposed to flaring. My mare manages both :rolls eyes:
 
Just to add my mare is very thin skinned she has rubbed from over reach boots, the binding on a numnah, her reins, her noseband, and the stable door but never from her boots and she only has cheapy cavallo simples.
 
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Interesting that wild hoof model shows some heel under-run; also quarter arching/scoops.

On shod hoof pic, (deleted code now) is that bull nosing or has farrier dubbed off toe to suit shoe?
 
Op - I wish my boy looked as good as yours! But, my trimmer told me at the weekend that we shouldn't worry so much about the exterior top view - that's going to take time - but instead concentrate on all the lovely changes happening underneath - the frogs, the sole, the heel. These chips on the wall are largely superficial - although terrifying to our peers! ;-)
 
They look much better than my TB's feet did in the early stages they looked awful .
I would keep at it .
One thing that helped me where leading him from another horse to get him moving it was along time before he was happy to hack out on the road with the rider .
Luckily we have a surface and a grass schooling field so I could keep him going he went from not being able to walk out the stable to striding across stoney car parks and jumping at clinics completely happily .
He was reshod ( he is better with studs and I hunt him in the winter )but I take him in and out of shoes regularly it's been a very very good thing for him.
Time wise it look nine months to get him ready to be hacking out ridden on the road .
I recommend the forage plus supplements I saw a visible difference in his feet when I started using them.
 
This is really interesting - I've stopped my farrier trimming mine as he would insist on trimming the sole. He hasn't worn shoes for a few years, nor has he had any cereals or molasses in his diet (and very little old grass) but his feet look really flat. Haven't got any pics handy although I might be able to take some soon - I have set up a maze in his field so he has to walk more on the current hard ground to stimulate his soles and frogs. How long before I see any difference, do you reckon, in other words how long before I have to find something else to help? He has had methionine in his diet all winter and is always on magox.
 
Frank has pretty flat soles in front, they are better than they were but not great which is why he can still feel stones a bit more than I would like. I suspect he is restricted by the position of his pedal bone and he also does a lot of road work - horses working more on more conformable surfaces tend to get more concavity.
 
Would anyone be brave enough to post a photo or two of how bad they might look before they start to get better

Or a better way to put it, maybe, at what point to I worry about them - or should I just keep judging on his field soundness?
 
What are you thinking might happen?

Hopefully the worst of the grass is out of the way now, but that tends to make them go flat and can mean the white line gets separated. Hooves tend to chip more in long dry spells but provided seedy toe isn't at the root it shouldn't be an issue. If you can get him on pea gravel it helps loads. You might see some event lines coming down the hoof in a few months.

Your hoof care provider is the best person to keep a check on them - the lady I recommended is coming up around the 14th I think :)
 
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