Would you sue?

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flyingfeet

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Now I'm not a fan of legal action in any form as only the lawyers win

However a friend put their horse in full livery, which had very restricted turn out. So even this time of year paddock turn out is alternated with horse walker

Anyway they get back from holiday (horse been there under 2 weeks), to go find their horse turned out in a paddock with another young horse and their horse has a broken leg.

The Vet was called to have him pts, and no clear evidence of a kick was there (flat field, potentially he could have messed around a broken a hindleg??).

If it was me I'd be fuming, as I wouldn't want my horse turned out with an unknown quantity without my permission.

So is the livery yard liable as they have full care of the horse?
 
I'd be upset and angry but not sure I'd be looking to sue in that particular instance.
I think to prove liability would be tricky.
 
For a start what a dreadful thing to happen.

As for the sueing bit, would it not depend on what agreement/contract had been arranged? If it had been stipulated (in writing?) that the horse was to have individual turnout then yes there would be a reason to consider legal action. If that hadn't been stipulated and all due care had been taken then, personally, I'd sadly just consider it something that can happen with horses and there was nothing to be done about it.
 
No I don't believe the livery yard is liable. What happened was an awful accident - accidents happen.

I wouldn't be angry; just very sad at the loss of my horse. I would never sue as ultimately the horse is my responsibility.
 
Are the horses supposed to be turned out individually or with a 'regular' friend?

Presumably the kick had happened moments before their arrival and the horse had not been like that for some time?
 
Tell her if she treathens to sue the peoples insurance company will pay out straight away rather than going to court

Don't know how successful she would be in a court of law, however I would be really upset if my horses had been turned out with an unknown horse and ended up with a broken leg. Why did the owners have to find it as well, makes you monder how long it had been like that.

What a tragic accident
 
Sadly, accidents happen, particularly with young horses so providing the yard took all due care (the other young horse wasn't known to be a thug/hooligan - or theirs' wasn't either, it takes two to start a fight) then I would be very miffed, more than miffed if I'm honest (if I was yard owner) if they decided to sue.
Presumably, horse was insured and if it wasn't then that was their own bad luck IMO.
I also presume they must have been happy with conditions and care to have left it there in the first place.

I've lost 2 horses through accidents caused by livery horses over the years; the owners were sorry, we're still friends, my horses were insured, end of story.
 
thats terrible circumstances, were they there to give the vet the nod or was this done while they were away? i lost a previous horse due to kick in field, but she'd been there 4 years so it was just pure accident. I think they put things down to "animal behaviour" and if turn-out was part of the livery i guess unless they stated not to (and in writing) the yard has done nothing wrong?
 
TBH, I would be more concerned that when I got back from holiday to go and see the horse that they hadn't noticed it had broken it's leg in the field. Also surprised the yard had turned the horse out with another one in under two weeks of it being there. Most of the yards I know all have quarantine periods before horses can be mixed.
 
Did your friend have a written agreement? As she was away for some time, I am pretty sure the yard will say they used their discretion as they must be allowed to. Very sad time, but suing will not bring horse back or solve anything. What has the YO got to say? That should be your friend's first port of call I would have thought. I presume the horse was insured?
 
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I would be very miffed, more than miffed if I'm honest (if I was yard owner) if they decided to sue.

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I would be too! So much so, that I would close my yard down and throw everyone else off!

Livery yard owners generally do a good job, for which there is often little or no thanks. They do it for a pittance and for the love of the job. If people were to go down the sue-culture line because of an accident then I think many more livery yards would close and the ones that remain will up their insurance and charge their customers more for the privilege.
 
unless I'd specified individual turnout and had it written down then there is no way on earth I'd consider sueing, I would however be claiming on my insurance.
 
QR.

What a horrible thing to happen.

Firstly, I have had horses on full livery and have left them whilst I go on holiday...... there has never been a problem, but if I understand correctly then the horse had only been at the new yard two weeks? I would never go away and leave a horse somewhere that I hadn't had time to fully get a measure of - that is up to the owner really.

These accidents do happen, I used to turn two ponies out together, it was just those two everyday in a flat post and rail field. About a year after they started going out together, nothing had changed but one pony kicked the other and it had to be PTS as a result - these things sometimes happen, it is tragic but they do.

However, from this day I turn out at the same time but all in individual paddocks rather than a big field (I don't even like to pair as there were only two in the above accident). They still have company but can't get at each other. When they go on livery, I ask specifically for individual turnout. If they agreed to this and then turned out with another horse without my prior permision, whether there was an accident or not, I would be fumming.

So, I guess what I am saying is, if it was in the contract, or they specifically agreed to always turn the horse out alone, then I would sue.
If not, then I wouldn't for two reasons
1. It is my understanding that unless you specifically state otherwise, at a livery yard, you have to expect that your horse will get turned out with company.
2. If it was only a couple of other horses, then they haven't exactly been negligent as most horse owners do turn horses out with company and sometimes accidents do happen.

It comes, down to, for me, whether thy broke a term of the contract. Negligence isn't really a factor here (from what I understand).
 
I would hate any horse of mine to have individual turnout without some very pressing reason (personal opinion) so accept the risk and would just be very sad unless, for instance, the horse had been like that for say over 12 hours and no one had noticed.
 
This was full livery - the horse had been there under 2 weeks. The owners only went away for the easter weekend. I am not sure how long the horse had been there with a broken leg, awful for the owners to find.

Previously the horse had not been turned out much full stop - this was a 12 year old hunter and they put it out with a youngster.

We have a livery yard and I wouldn't dream of putting horses out together that are not mine without making the owner understand that this carries risk .

Just wondering how much responsibility a yard takes on when they do full livery? I have to say we would give a horse a month to settle down before mixing them.
 
No I wouldn't sue, It's a horrid ACCIDENT to happen, and I would be devasated *sp* If it happened to my horse, but its not the liverys fault if a horse breaks its leg. If you are only going to sue people when things go wrong then maybe you should do it your self, Then theres only you to blame. Did the livery do such a crime in turning a horse out, like there designed to do...*Both horse and livery* I think you can go on sueing till everybody but yourself is to blame, but it won't stop accidents.
 
Well I think unless there is a policy of individual turnout - or it was agreed between both parties that this horse would only be turned out on it's own - it is, as many have said, just an awful accident.

Terribly sad for all involved. But having horses comes with such terrible risks for all involved.
 
I have been on a few yards and they have never asked which horses can go out with mine. I agree that unless they specified individual turnout, I am afraid these things happen as sad as it is.
 
Wow what lovely natural lifes our horses live... Never getting to socalise, stuck in boxes, walking a circult on hard ground, while people are payed to give them pillow beds....So there mummies can justife them selves. No wonder horses act the way they do when given half a chance to be a horse....Rather then this glass baby we treat them like.
 
This does not sound like neglegence to me. If that is the case, why sue and ruin someones business that they have worked hard to build. What is it with this compensation culture we have in this country - and a disclaimer isnt worth the paper its written on either.

The YO should have an insurance policy which includes 'Care, Custody and Control' which you need to have with full liveries.

Accidents do happen and there is not always 'someone' to blame.
 
if they were told no turnout or individual turnout and it was turned out with another horse then they have a case and yes - I would sue

Discussion with insurance company recently about something vcompletely different they said a HUGE percentage of their claims were as the result of turnout 'accidents' and it is this that keeps everyone's insurance premiums sky high

I'd also investigate if the other horse has any previous 'convictions' for agressive behaviour when turned out in company and if the other horse has been at that yard a reasonable length of time

If the other horse is a known kicker and has caused previous injuries then thereis definitely a case to sue - yard up road from me had legal action against them 10 years ago as they had one livery that actually killed 4 horses - the owner of the 4th horse took legal action (settled out of court) when it became plainly clear that the offending horse was known to have caused 3 previous deaths and was still by the YO being turned out in company.

yes there are accidents - but there are also ways to avoid some of them. The case stands on whether there was a known history, the contract in place and what was done to prevent injury - i.e. had these two horses been turned out in adjoining fields first to 'get to know each other' before being dumped in a field together.

Management of new horses into an existing herd requires exactly that - MANAGEMENT - which si the responsibility of the YO as no individual livery should/can be aware of the foibles of every other horse on the yard - that is the job of the YO.
 
Llwyncwn nice point...whats gianed in sueing the livery yard? Like Tia said liverys will turn out like riding schools, shutting down or charging more to cover insurance...Wheres that leave us...Traveling non stop and paying a bomb...
 
You could only take legal actions if you had a binding contract that stipulated your horse was not allowed to be tunred out with another indiviual or it was a horse they wished for their horse not to go out with
 
I am with many of others in this one. Unless there is a contract saying individual turnout untill you came back home, there wouldn't be much they could do.

In a strange place, some horses are actually worse by themselves when they can see others.

Last April, I lost my best showjumper, bought to do the higher classes. He was a brilliant horse and being part-bred shire you would think his legs were made of steel.

He was walking down a track to the paddock when a lorry started it's engine. He started galloping which they often do. For some unknown reason, he fell and snapped his leg mid-cannon. Luckily this particular horse always had lots of adrenaline and when the vet arrived within 10 minutes, pain tests revealed he was feeling very little and so before he calmed down was very quickly pts.

To this day, I cry my eyes out over him. I would have loved someone to blame, perhaps the lorry driver, the YO for the track not being perfect (in a perfect world maybe), but at the end of the day, it was a freak accident.

Sometimes things happen and whilst we cannot make sense of them, we have to accept them, although it is so hard to do.
 
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Wow what lovely natural lifes our horses live... Never getting to socalise, stuck in boxes, walking a circult on hard ground, while people are payed to give them pillow beds....So there mummies can justife them selves. No wonder horses act the way they do when given half a chance to be a horse....Rather then this glass baby we treat them like.

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I'd still be p*ssed off if I have just moved to a new livery yard and they had killed my horse off within 2 weeks.....

Our horses live as a herd inside as well as out - that said we screen them first, make sure there is a leader and extract trouble makers.

The problem is 'some' livery yards bung horses together without thinking - so is that lack of thought a 'lack of care' and therefore negligence?

Any horse I compete only goes out with their best mate or alone - they can groom with nice fence between them - so no behaviour lost.
 
I do think Heather your situation is a little different to this one (potentially anyway). We had a lovely mare that's leg was broken a couple of years ago in the field at my previous yard - no ones fault, just one of those things. The group were very established, and no particularly aggressive horses in the field. So yes tragic accidents do happen.

But it will be interesting to hear what the turn out arrangements were for this horse ultimately.
 
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