Would you try and persuade her to sell??

I was in a very similar position (putting agreed price up on share horse ).

I paid over the original price and am so glad I did.

My mare is an absolute star and I have enjoyed every single ride I've had on her in the last 2 1/5yrs.

Don't let stubbornness stand in the way if it is your horse of lifetime.

Knowing how it turned out for me I'd have paid 10 times over what I paid if I could have afforded to.
 
In my mind, letting someone other than the loaner ride the horse is about mutual trust and respect. Loaner should respect the owner and ask permission and owner should trust the loaner to only allow suitable people on board.

OP - whilst a lian contract is never a bad idea, if the brown stuff hits the fan it probably won't help much. If your gut feeling is that the owner might take the horse off you then I'd suggest you resolve this pronto.

Eat humble pie, offer the £1700 and if it's rejected the give notice on the loan and cut your losses.
 
FfionWinnie said:
I have to say if the horse is as dear to you as you say it is, you were a bit cheeky saying 1k. 1700 isn't a lot for a horse that's done what you describe for you. At ten he has a lot of years left as well. I think I would let the dust settle, save the 1700 and tell her nicely that you have the money and would like to buy him. If she won't sell at that point, ask for a loan agreement so you know where you stand, if she won't do that, I would give him back or accept you may lose him with no notice.
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Agree with this, in particular the offer of only £1k, very cheeky for a 10 year confidence giver including tack and if I were her he wouldn't be going for £1700 either.
 
It's hard to comment on a specific situation without knowing the people involved, but in general terms - no, I would not try to persuade anyone to sell me their horse. I would consider a loan just that unless it was explicitly entered into as a loan with view to buy.. in my experience people who put their horses out on loan in the first place instead of selling often do so because they don't want to sell. If I got to a point where I wanted to buy my own horse and was no longer happy with a loan arrangement I would tell the owner as much, and unless they then brought a potential purchase of the loan horse up I would be prepared to look elsewhere.

It is terribly hard when you bond with a horse that isn't yours - I have been there and I still wish I could have purchased my mare of a lifetime who was sadly just a loan. But ultimately it has got to be the owner's own decision and I wouldn't want to attempt to influence it.

Of course depending on the individual situation and the rapport between loaner and owner, asking might not hurt. I'd draw the line at making a good offer if I felt I could, but not try to persuade the owner beyond that.
 
I would try to be objective, and wait a few weeks before you bring up the subject, maybe go and look at a few others, this will probably get back to her, but will give you and idea of what is out there.
Tell her you feel you are ready to buy your own horse, and if she wants to sell, can you come to an agreement on a price, if she says 2K, look surprised and say, oh I thought you wanted £1700, and I was thinking £1500. If she says £1700 you still might take it subject to 5 stage vetting, which would be another £200.
If she is just wanting to test your upper limit you have to agree or ask her to take horse back. If you don't do that you will be unhappy.
I don't see a problem with a good rider on the horse as a one off, as long as she had not forbidden it.
I would not school or increase the fitness, as the more you do the more ££££ she will want.
 
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SpringArising said:
If I loan out a horse then I don't care if other people ride it. As far as I'm concerned, the loaner is essentially the new owner - I'm just hanging onto the horse legally.

I think it's a bit cheeky to dictate what someone does and doesn't do with the horse if they are paying for everything for it - especially when it's something as harmless as letting a friend have a little ride. I understand if it's a sharer, but a loaner who does everything is a different ball game.
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I have to agree with this
 
I'd be horribly offended if someone offered me that for mine. When I loaned a TB, the agreement stated that I and one other person could ride her. My current insurance requires named riders only, like a car!

If you want the horse, make a sensible offer and don't let anyone else ride. Some people do not necessarily rate professional riders and not everyone thinks the same about someone else's riding. I've heard so many different opinions about various riders over the years, it's crazy!
 
You may have intended the 1k offer as a joke, but it sounds like she either didn't get the joke or was insulted by it. You need to apologise for the rider incident. It's not unreasonable to have someone else exercise him, but now you know that it isn't what she wants, tell her you didn't realise and say it won't happen again. It sounds like you hit a nerve with the cheeky offer and that's why she went off on one. Wait a few weeks, pay her £1700 if she will accept and if not reconsider the loan.
 
MargotC said:
It's hard to comment on a specific situation without knowing the people involved, but in general terms - no, I would not try to persuade anyone to sell me their horse. I would consider a loan just that unless it was explicitly entered into as a loan with view to buy.. in my experience people who put their horses out on loan in the first place instead of selling often do so because they don't want to sell. If I got to a point where I wanted to buy my own horse and was no longer happy with a loan arrangement I would tell the owner as much, and unless they then brought a potential purchase of the loan horse up I would be prepared to look elsewhere.

It is terribly hard when you bond with a horse that isn't yours - I have been there and I still wish I could have purchased my mare of a lifetime who was sadly just a loan. But ultimately it has got to be the owner's own decision and I wouldn't want to attempt to influence it.

Of course depending on the individual situation and the rapport between loaner and owner, asking might not hurt. I'd draw the line at making a good offer if I felt I could, but not try to persuade the owner beyond that.
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Now that I think about it this is also a very good point :/ If she doesnt want to part with her horse then I don't think its fair to try and persuade her. I understand it must be very frustrating for you however :(
I think she was most likely angry that you had let someone else ride him, and also she may have taken your joke about offering £1000 completely the wrong way and just got defensive.
I think its worth asking once things have calmed down, but dont argue or try and change her mind if her answer is still no.
 
If you want this horse, I'd apologise preferably in person about letting someone else ride him and it was wrong of you, you weren't thinking and should have asked permission, then state your previous offer was meant in jest and you realise you may have accidently caused offence by that, 1700 is the right price if she ever decided to find a home to sell to, that you adore her horse and despite your previous mistakes would never do anything that would ever cause harm or strife to him, say that if he was yours you'd have felt exactly the same, it's just that you and the horse get on brilliantly together and you never thought you'd have the privilege of having him.

Then stop talking.

Leave it and let her get back in touch with you. You might well get your horse.

Due to injury, I loaned my very good horse (deceased) in avatar out to a place in England (I still lived in Ireland a that time), conversations were had about what they could do with my horse. They didn't follow terms, I wasn't happy, they said 'take him back then' in a rather cocky fashion. I had a transporter pick him up that night. A few weeks later a letter arrived, full of apologies and desire to have my horse back, I ripped the letter up, dropped it in cattle grid and walked up driveway home.
 
Illusion100 said:
If you want this horse, I'd apologise preferably in person about letting someone else ride him and it was wrong of you, you weren't thinking and should have asked permission, then state your previous offer was meant in jest and you realise you may have accidently caused offence by that, 1700 is the right price if she ever decided to find a home to sell to, that you adore her horse and despite your previous mistakes would never do anything that would ever cause harm or strife to him, say that if he was yours you'd have felt exactly the same, it's just that you and the horse get on brilliantly together and you never thought you'd have the privilege of having him.

Then stop talking.

Leave it and let her get back in touch with you. You might well get your horse.

This, good luck!
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I think you need to leave this a little while, and then try and buy him, it sounds like she's just got a bit annoyed with all the offers and a low one, even if it was a joke, was yet final straw. I don't think 1700 is a lot for him and if you think that much of him you probably won't buy another as good for the price. And If we have a Loan horse and we want someone else to ride it we always ask the owner, chances are they'll probably agree if they just know
 
I thought she said she'd take £1200? I which case a jokey offer of £1000 shouldnt offend anyone. I'd get the £1200 out in cash, offer it and she either takes it or takes the horse back
 
As someone who is about to put their horse on full loan due to redundancy I can say there is very little the potential loaner, or anyone else, could say to persuade me to sell my boy. I have made this clear to all potential loaners, but have caveated it by saying if for any reason I did need to sell they could obviously have first refusal. Perhaps this is what the owner meant when she said that she may consider selling the horse for £1700, £1500, £1200 or whatever price you originally discussed.
 
Has the whole thing been a misunderstanding? The owner said she would only sell to you and you took it as she would sell to you at some point. Maybe she meant only that she would not sell him from under you. You seem frustrated that she wants to retain rights over him but not do anything with him, surely that is the exact reason why people loan a horse out? Regarding the other rider I have two thoughts, you say they gave him a good work out, that could have got back to her as either they worked an unfit horse hard causing her to feel cross or that they worked him well causing her to decide he was worth more after all. There are at least two well known and respected riders in my area, one Olympic, who having seen their training methods I would not let touch mine with a barge pole. Nothing dodgey, ordinary training, just methods I feel very strongly about in a negative way. Good Rider is a subjective term. You do not want to be dictated to on your own yard but whoever's yard it is she still owns the horse. You do not sound suited to loaning, if I am honest. There is nothing wring with wanting to do everything your way but you need to own really to ensure that. If I was the owner I would be cross with your offer too. How many times is something said supposedly as a joke when really it is anything but? Sorry but saying you'd give her the cash today does not sound like a proper joke to me it sounds like you meant it. She had already knocked 500 off the asking price when you said it was too much. Offering 1k is nearly half the original asking price and taking the p. It does not really matter what you think he is worth, she thinks he is worth 1700 of course she is going to be offended being offered almost half that. I do think you should be careful. Having annoyed her she could now feel no guilt about taking her horse back one day. Although I think saying she will never sell shows she will not do that. I think you are lucky she did not decide to have him back right away, through anger.
 
I dont think you can 'persuade' someone to sell. Her horse,her call! And I think if I was an owner who had loaned a horse to someone and that person let someone else give it 'a good workout' I would be more than furious! And whos responsibility would it have been if the horse had got injured while a third party was riding it? And as for your offer.... well, that was just plain rude and if it was a joke it was in very poor taste and if I was the owner I would have been rather insulted by it.
 
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