Would you?

summertoots

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Just out of curiosity (sp?) what would you do in this sutuation.
You have a usualy fit and healthy gelding, lets say he is 25, but thinks hes still a youngster, and has a real zest for life.
You take him in one evening and he's not looking right, lets say its a choke. So you phone a member of a certain profesion, and they come out and say yes its choke and treats said horse.
The next day he seems bright, but has a cough, so this profesional you had out the day before sends one of their newly qualified members of staff out to tube your usualy healthy horse to see if he has a blockage.
However, this newly qualified person f*cks up. Lets just say something nasty goes wrong, like when they remove the tube the horse starts bleeding heavily from its nose, perhaps the equivalent of three buckets is lost, not counting the puddles on the floor.
After that this horse becomes very ill. White blood count so low its is critical but too sick to travel as vet school is four hours away. It can no longer eat, drink, its body becomes one huge oedema externaly, it develops an infection from the tube, it cant be put on a drip due to the oedema. A blood transfusion was atempted but this poor horse went into anaphylactic shock so the transfusion was abandoned.
It can by this point only manage small mouthfulls of mushy cubes and SB water, and its getting weeker. it then colics. Is having to be pumped full off morphine and fynadine. He gets over the colic and some how keeps fighting. you spend all your time watching him looking and hopeing he gets better, even a small sign. But in your heart you know you are going to loose him, but while you see he is still fighting you cant make the horible decision.
So here is my question, would you blaim the person who tubed badly, or is it just high emotions looking for someone to lash out at? Remember he was fit and healthy all his life and had a mild choke till this person tubed him.
Oh and just to add, you heard on the grape vine this wasnt the first time this person had made a mess of a simple procedure.
Of course this is all a hypothetical question!
 
I'd want some answers at least!
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That sounds terrible...

I think initially I'd want t o blame the person who tubed, but when common sense kicked in I'd try to get some answers from the practice before taking it further. Vets are human too and no-one is perfect. If said tuber had done same procedure before and made a mess of it I might have a bit more to say!
 
i would challenge the vets, not because im bitter and want anything, but it should not of happened, and its also up to us horse owners to protect the next person and horse,
 
Wasn't sure if I was letting my emotions run away with me.
He's so special you see. I have a picture of us having a yeehaa across our fields last year, he was with a couple of yougsters, but he still took me to the front and showed the lot of them just how to go, cant stop looking at the picture. Too see him now less than a year later dieing infront of my eyes, I can not express how very angry I am that this is hapening to him.
 
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I'd want some answers at least! That sounds terrible...

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Me too. However, over what period did the deteriation of the horse take place?

What was done by the owner to stop the 'professional' from tubing the horse, when it became evident that there was some difficulty being experienced?

Could there be some pre-desposing condition not discovered that could have caused the sudden decline in the horse?

What have the practice said about what happened?
 
I would question the vet and head vet at the practice and see what they have to say.If i wasnt satisfied with the answers i got then i would take it further. Your poor horse, what a shame for you both. I do hope he pulls through. It is in everyones intrest that incompetant people are struck off.
 
I would demand answers and not drop it until I had a satisfactory one! I would also question the skill and knowledge of this newly qualified professional if it is shown that they keep making and have made significant errors on minor procedures - ok they are new but that doesn't mean they can not do things properly!
 
Horse went down hill directly after the tubing. Blood was only stopped after the vet who cocked up was sent off the yard and a senior partner then came and packed the horses nose and we had to hold his head up. (this is a 17hh CBx TB).

Blood loss was when the tube was removed. Was pulled out rather quickly and violently and blood started pouring out the second the tube was out.

This person is no longer to set foot on the owners yard. (Im not the owner, I am staff, this is a large yard)

Practice has said nothing about what went wrong. However we only ever get the senior partners out to the horse now, and he is the priority case.
Too little too late.
 
No pre disposing condition. he was fit, healthy, ate with gusto, fat as a bull if he could be, bright shiny healthy example of a horse.
 
your poor boy, i cant imagine what your going through, im holding back the tears reading about it. def take it as far as you can to get answers.

a friend of mine had problems (though not this serious) with one of our 'newly qualified vets' and is in the process of taking her complaints as high up the chain as possible.

sometimes all it takes is alot of tlc to help horses pull through even the worst of things, do all you can for him and give him all the care and love he needs and deserves.
 
Oedema all through the body, should have been more specific about that. Oedema is due to the blood loss as his organs are no longer working as well as they should due to the low white blood count preventing him from being able to flush toxins from his system.
The oedema we can see externaly runs right down his thraot, down his front legs, between his legs to his sheath.
 
Go directly to the senior partner and speak to them - or if you feel that you can't speak rationally about it then write them a letter.
I had a problem with a vet treating my horse badly, but luckily it was nowhere near as bad as this, and I called out different vets to treat my horse. (Bloody cow vets should be banned from even approaching a horse!) I was so wound up by what the vet had done I had to write a letter to the senior partner.
We did receive a written apology from the vet in question and the practice - but seeing how much worse than this is I would be going for compensation at least.
It turned out that the cow vet that couldn't manage to treat my horse had been kicked out from his previous practice for almost exactly the same thing that he had done to my horse.
I really hope your horse pulls through - but if I were you don't let the vets get away with this.
 
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Oedema all through the body, should have been more specific about that. Oedema is due to the blood loss as his organs are no longer working as well as they should due to the low white blood count preventing him from being able to flush toxins from his system.
The oedema we can see externaly runs right down his thraot, down his front legs, between his legs to his sheath.

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It sounds just awful - I'm so sorry. Poor, poor lad.

Yep would definately be taking it further with the practice. But I can't help wondering if the extreme reaction denotes something going on that was triggered by the lack of care by the attending vet.

I really hope he pulls through for you.
 
I would first ask why he bled and why he had choke, was there some other reason, i.e a blockage like a tumour and after having been scoped it caused the tumour to burst? (Could it have been visually missed by the scope?)

Then once you have answers, i'd go from there, if the vet is negligent then you obviously have grounds to sue.

What a terribly horrible thing to have to go through, am very sorry for you and your poor horse
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Were not wanting compensation in the form of money, that wont undo what has been done. Just don't want to see some other horse or owner going through this
But the angry person in me wants this person not only sacked, but no longer able to practice with horses. I have to say though as a rule this vet practice is very good, and the senior partner still remains my vet of choice.
Lessons to be learned by all concerned, why did it have to be this horse who teaches them.
 
i would definatly want answers for what has gone wrong.

sueing wouldnt be too far from my mind also - which i wouldnt normally say as i hate todays sueing culture - but, this was clearly a fcuk up by the vet in question and ultimatly could lead to you losing your horse, it must be costing a fortune in vet bills too plus your own tears and anguish..

i really really hope he pulls through for you - he sounds like a fighter so fingers crossed for you.

do keep us posted.
 
That was exactly my thoughts wizoz.
Something would have gone extremely wrong for a horse to loose so much blood from a scope, if it was negligence on behalf of the vet then I would take it as far as I could, but there may have been a complicating factor that the vet couldn't have prevented?
 
i do agree that no amount of money will ever heal this situation.

however sometimes the only way to hit some proffesionals is through their pockets.
if said newly qualified vet ends up costing the company x amount - they may think twice to letting him do horse related call outs.

not to mention the damage to said persons career when this gets out - i know if i lived closer to you i would want to know his name so he could never come near my horses.

the damage to such a new career could see him doing cats and dogs from now on.
 
The horse world is small here so i have no doubt that the jungle drums are beating as i write. As a rule we, as a yard, try very hard to stay out of the gossip, so when something happens that involves us its hot news.
However I cant possibly name and shame while all this is still on going.
 
That is something we just dont know though. All we have to go on is the fact this horse was very healthy before hand, the picture of health. We dont know if there was something, lurking internaly. There was no blockage when they tubed him, the blood loss was huge and a direct result from being badly tubed.
The only way we will find out the true answers is from a PM and to perfectly honest I would rather he get well and the mystery hung over us that have him die.
 
Oh how awful, thsi reminds me of when i lost my pony about 10 years ago. He broke down at a team chase (he was 19) and we had to box rest him for I think it was 6 weeks? Anyway, I think poss due to shock and suddenly being shut in (he was normally out during the summer) he got colic. Nothing out of the ordinary though but a vet did come out and as far as I know (sadly I was away at uni so just got updates from my mum) they tubed him too.

Shortly after that he the got peritonitis and just went downhill, became recumbant and died with my mum holding his head before the vet could come out to put him to sleep. Now, we just put it down to a tragic loss and that his body went into shock (it may well have done) but, over the years I have learned more about horse illnesses and treatment and, working for an insurance company come across many problems and it did cross my mind that whether the reason for his demise was in fact a botched stomach tube and in fact a puncture/rupture of the bowel as a result causing the peritonitis. This I will now never know, all i know was it wasn't our usual vet who carried out the procedure and it does make you wonder.
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I just hope your horse does pull through this, he sounds like he is a fighter and I hope the treating is questioned about their handling of this.

I shall keep my fingers crossed for you.
 
I dont think you can blame the vet until you know why it happened. It may have been an inevitable part of the process due to an unknown problem within the horse.
I would want some answers before pointing the finger Im afraid.

Hope he pulls through.
 
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