WOW / Flair Saddles

equidstar11

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Hi! Interested in buying a wow saddle (well, 2 actually, 1 for each horse) after having some bad experiences with a very popular French saddle with foam panels and short tree points.



I’m very new to wow - both saddles would be jump saddles with forward cut flaps / flat seats. Since I don’t need to change the flaps, should I be looking at the DMK range instead? Are the DMK trees different?



Are they worth buying new? (I don’t have the budget to buy both new, but could perhaps stretch to 1 new, 1 used) or am I better off collecting parts from the fitter/wow/online after finding out what I need?



Also those that jump in wow saddles / saddles with flair, do you use a shock absorbing half pad underneath? I have a Winderen (with the proven tech foam) / vip available to me which I could have the saddle fitted with, but I in general find half pads a bit annoying if they move so would prefer to avoid, unless the shock absorption is really necessary. I read that the air panels are generally better than flock / foam anyway?



Just some general info / gotchas would be useful! Thank you
 

ycbm

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What I have found absolutely necessary after using them for many years on many horses is to give some protection to the airbag overlap which is halfway down the panel. I would not ride in one without a sheepskin, a Mattes/Nuumed wool, or a thin gel pad.

You will lose the ability to fine tune the flaps for yourself and your horse if you buy the version with fixed flaps. It's very useful to be able to angle the flaps back and forwards.

They are so expensive now that I wouldn't buy new if you can avoid it, but it will depend on you wanting flaps, seat and panel that are pretty common or you could be stuck for a long time waiting for the last part you need.

Are you aware how heavy they are? And that they are a "marmite" saddle, you either love them or hate them.
.
 

equidstar11

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What I have found absolutely necessary after using them for many years on many horses is to give some protection to the airbag overlap which is halfway down the panel. I would not ride in one without a sheepskin, a Mattes/Nuumed wool, or a thin gel pad.

You will lose the ability to fine tune the flaps for yourself and your horse if you buy the version with fixed flaps. It's very useful to be able to angle the flaps back and forwards.

They are so expensive now that I wouldn't buy new if you can avoid it, but it will depend on you wanting flaps, seat and panel that are pretty common or you could be stuck for a long time waiting for the last part you need.

Are you aware how heavy they are? And that they are a "marmite" saddle, you either love them or hate them.
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Thanks ycbm.

Makes sense about the flaps. Plus I may change in time also.

I didn’t know that about the airbags overlapping. I’ll take that into consideration when I fit.

I haven’t bothered taking weight into consideration. They’re both big strapping warmbloods (same size of which normally carry big men around a course of jumps) and I’m only 59kg, so I think a little extra weight of saddle wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference!

I have heard that some people don’t like them, but I figure as long as I can sit in a good position and the twist width is ok (eg not put me in a chair seat as some saddles have, it’s a losing battle trying to keep your leg under you in that situation) then I will get used to the feeling as long as the horse is happy!
 

PinkvSantaboots

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Thanks ycbm.

Makes sense about the flaps. Plus I may change in time also.

I didn’t know that about the airbags overlapping. I’ll take that into consideration when I fit.

I haven’t bothered taking weight into consideration. They’re both big strapping warmbloods (same size of which normally carry big men around a course of jumps) and I’m only 59kg, so I think a little extra weight of saddle wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference!

I have heard that some people don’t like them, but I figure as long as I can sit in a good position and the twist width is ok (eg not put me in a chair seat as some saddles have, it’s a losing battle trying to keep your leg under you in that situation) then I will get used to the feeling as long as the horse is happy!
I would definitely try one I rode a Warmblood for someone years ago that had one and loved it but not everyone likes them.
 

SEL

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I've got both my small cobs in them now. One is a typical v short back, bum high, no withers, every saddle moves types. WOW has been a game changer because I could order special short but wide panels for her. We also adjusted the air because she has an old annular ligament injury which means her right hind doesn't land "cleanly". Her shape has changed so much the air flocking is almost symmetrical now. She's just got a normal saddle pad underneath. Told me quite clearly she didn't want anything thicker!

She loved the air flocking from the first moment I tried it

My saddler dismantled my old WOW (retired 15.2 chunk of a mare) & used the flaps and seat along with a set of loan panels for a trial on my other cob. He wasn't convinced by the lack of stability to start with but for the change in his movement I stuck it out. He's bred to trot and for the first time I could really feel his shoulders move - actually hard to sit to initially. I did have him in a slightly thicker pad but we're due a check and he's popped a bit of weight on so thin pad right now and he seems ok with it.

Saddler is everything though. I hated WOW with my old mare but when this saddler took that one apart she asked me if it had kept slipping back. It hadn't - in fact slipping forward was the issue - but it looks like the girthing was set up to avoid it going back. No wonder the horse hated it. New saddler was also a bit bemused at how narrow a head plate was in given the size of my retiree. I have a feeling I would have liked the saddle a lot more if it had been fitted by current saddler.
 

sbloom

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There's a very interesting remedial fitter, Liv Life Saddles, in Yorkshire. I don't know her personally but she works with Wow in her own way - I think using flocking more than air, and has her own headplates for some horses. Well worth a look if you're in her area (even though she's a direct competitor!).
 

ycbm

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There's a very interesting remedial fitter, Liv Life Saddles, in Yorkshire. I don't know her personally but she works with Wow in her own way - I think using flocking more than air, and has her own headplates for some horses. Well worth a look if you're in her area (even though she's a direct competitor!).


Interesting. I've always fitted my own as you know and I don't fit anything like WOW tell you to. I'm not wedded to air, I used WOW more for the lateral flexion in the front arch (which i found horses absolutely love) and the gullet plate range than the air.
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Ellibelli

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There's a very interesting remedial fitter, Liv Life Saddles, in Yorkshire. I don't know her personally but she works with Wow in her own way - I think using flocking more than air, and has her own headplates for some horses. Well worth a look if you're in her area (even though she's a direct competitor!).
Liv has been a total game changer for my horses 😊
 

equidstar11

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Interesting. I've always fitted my own as you know and I don't fit anything like WOW tell you to. I'm not wedded to air, I used WOW more for the lateral flexion in the front arch (which i found horses absolutely love) and the gullet plate range than the air.
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Out of curiosity, what do you mean you don’t fit anything like WOW tell you to? What’s different about the way you fit etc?
 

ycbm

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Out of curiosity, what do you mean you don’t fit anything like WOW tell you to? What’s different about the way you fit etc?


I dislike the panels that aren't tabbed, I don't use the "right"width gullet plate but a wider one, and when I buy second hand panels fitted by a WOW fitter they almost always have more air in them than I would ever use, those are the main things.
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Ellibelli

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I dislike the panels that aren't tabbed, I don't use the "right"width gullet plate but a wider one, and when I buy second hand panels fitted by a WOW fitter they almost always have more air in them than I would ever use, those are the main things.
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Interesting - a lot of similarities to how Liv fits Wow saddles too
 

irishdraft

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I have a wow dmk jump, I bought it for a horse who was difficult to fit and it worked a treat for him. My one is an older one which has foam & flair, I used the saddle with just the foam, no flair although the option is there. I didn't use any special saddle cloths. Sadly I lost the horse but have the saddle is for sale if your interested. It's a 17" two tone brown.
 

Ratface

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I've had two. Flair, not foam. Eventually gave/sold them to other people, who seemed happy with them. I found them too heavy to lift onto the horses that I had at the time.
I changed to Ideal saddles, which the horses liked.
 

JGC

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My local saddle fitter does a lot of WOW, so I was considering one, but actually reading the thread I've gone off the idea again - not least as I'd forgotten how heavy they and I am constantly have to diet to stay at a rideable weight as it is!

I get a sore back from all Cair saddles I've tried, so I guess Flair might well be the same
 

ycbm

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My local saddle fitter does a lot of WOW, so I was considering one, but actually reading the thread I've gone off the idea again - not least as I'd forgotten how heavy they and I am constantly have to diet to stay at a rideable weight as it is!

I get a sore back from all Cair saddles I've tried, so I guess Flair might well be the same


Cair was dreadful when it was first released and still bears no relationship to Flair. The air in it can't be adjusted and the airbag is really small compared to Flair.
.
 

equidstar11

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Cair was dreadful when it was first released and still bears no relationship to Flair. The air in it can't be adjusted and the airbag is really small compared to Flair.
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Ycbm (or others), what’s your opinion on flair vs flair mk2?
 

Melody Grey

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I have sue Carson dressage saddles with flair and really rate it- wouldn’t want to go back to flocked now.

They're really adjustable with wide gullets and have fit everything they’ve been on with minimal adjustment from warmbloods, TBs, native x tbs and cobs.
 

HelenBack

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I've not used Flair mk2 but from what they say about it on the website it sounds like it's more suitable for heavier riders or chunky horses, which doesn't sound like your situation?

I've had two horses in Wow saddles now and both have gone better in them than in traditional flocked saddles. One did have a Bates saddle for a while and as YCBM says, Flair and Cair are worlds apart, both for horse and rider, so don't let a previous bad experience with Cair put you off.

Both of my horses have been found by the physio to have much less tightness through their backs with their Wow saddles than with other saddles and the one has a noticeably freer shoulder and stride length.

I personally just ride with an ordinary thin numnah and not a wool one and have never had the issue with the horses feeling the airbag overlap but obviously that's just my experience.

I think they're the most comfortable saddles I've ever ridden in and can sit in them much better than other saddles I've tried. I know some people just don't like them but I can't see me using anything else from now on.

I agree that getting the right saddler is the most important thing, but that's probably the case with most other saddles too.
 

equidstar11

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I've not used Flair mk2 but from what they say about it on the website it sounds like it's more suitable for heavier riders or chunky horses, which doesn't sound like your situation?

I've had two horses in Wow saddles now and both have gone better in them than in traditional flocked saddles. One did have a Bates saddle for a while and as YCBM says, Flair and Cair are worlds apart, both for horse and rider, so don't let a previous bad experience with Cair put you off.

Both of my horses have been found by the physio to have much less tightness through their backs with their Wow saddles than with other saddles and the one has a noticeably freer shoulder and stride length.

I personally just ride with an ordinary thin numnah and not a wool one and have never had the issue with the horses feeling the airbag overlap but obviously that's just my experience.

I think they're the most comfortable saddles I've ever ridden in and can sit in them much better than other saddles I've tried. I know some people just don't like them but I can't see me using anything else from now on.

I agree that getting the right saddler is the most important thing, but that's probably the case with most other saddles too.

Makes sense. No, I am light and the horses are normal warmblood types. Decided to stick to normal flair.

Having ridden in the saddles at the trial fitting, I couldn’t get over the comfort of them! Tried a few variations of things but just in general, they are so comfy.

One of mine has some muscle loss around the trapezius from (I think) short tree points on the last saddle. Excited to see how he rebuilds in this new one - he was immediately more free and happy; and even offered me some nice bend and canter on his worst side, which is usually a bit of a nag.

I loved the idea/saddles so much I ended up buying 1 for each horse (rip my bank account)… but now I need the free space girth perhaps?? I have read the long thread about them and it is very temping indeed
 

ycbm

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I didn't know about MKii. I wouldn't swap because I've never had a problem, but I think they are probably a good development.

I love the fit too. They have a dip at the twist that the top of my inner thigh locks into.

What length Free Space do you need? I kept 2 saddles and a 32inch Free Space but in truth I doubt it's ever going to get used again so you can buy it for a decent donation to a charity of your choice if you want it.
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sbloom

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My local saddle fitter does a lot of WOW, so I was considering one, but actually reading the thread I've gone off the idea again - not least as I'd forgotten how heavy they and I am constantly have to diet to stay at a rideable weight as it is!

I get a sore back from all Cair saddles I've tried, so I guess Flair might well be the same

Cair is foam, but in a sealed bag. That's the only reason it's "air" - flocked panels etc aren't airtight so the physics are all about the flock, in Cair it's about foam and sealed air.
 
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equidstar11

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Cair is foam, but in a sealed bag. That's the only reason it's "air" - flocked panels etc aren't airtight so the physics are all about the flock, in Cair it's about foam and sealed air.
I’ve had 3 bates saddles (and a wintec) with Cair over the years and they’re nothing at all like wow. Bates panels were very firm, the wow panels feel a LOT softer, like flocking, provided they aren’t blown up too much!
 
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