WOW Saddle on eBay not as described

[ycbm]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wow-Saddl...998524?hash=item25b32f1a3c:g:riUAAOSwUdlWcVc8


I've tried to warn eBay about this but there is no way to do it other than phoning them up and their call centre is awful. So if anyone is interested in buying this saddle, be aware that it is not as described. For a start it's not brand new. If you blow the photo up to the maximum, you can see that it has creases on the twist that only ever happen after use. For a second, it is at least nine years old. This can be seen by the fact that the stirrup bars are clearly visible and there is no stitch line on the edge of the leather above them. This also means that it is a resin seat, much heavier than the leather treed seats that have been supplied for the last eight years or so. This is backed up by the leather covered screws at the back of the panel, something WOW have not done for about ten years. From the lack of a screw hole, the panel is the very first design which slotted on instead of screwing on, which makes them not easily interchangeable with current panels and worth little second hand. As a consequence, it was most certainly NOT bought for £2,600 as the seller describes, which is today's price, and is worth nowhere near the amount of money which it is listed for. Don't be fooled by it if you are looking for a WOW.

 

[webble]

You can report items on ebay using the report item feature. That said it doesn't say how long ago it was bought new and then not used so it could have just been ins storage which would also potentially explain the creases

 

[ycbm]

You can report items on ebay using the report item feature. That said it doesn't say how long ago it was bought new and then not used so it could have just been ins storage which would also potentially explain the creases

It does not allow you to report wrong wording, only categories of problems, and this does not fit any category they are trying to force me into.. The creases are characteristic of these saddles, and cannot be explained except by the saddle being sat in and the jointed tree rocked. The back plate is also scratched if you enlarge the photos enough. This is a VERY old and out of date WOW with a panel and seat design discontinued many years ago, being sold implying it was relatively newly bought and is current.

In case he is unaware of this, I have sent him a message to let him know.

 

[jrp204]

In fairness, it may have been bought ' new' and it may have been bought more recently than you think. it does state it wasn't used due to illness so may have been sitting around for a while. It does look in very good condition and they have put a mobile number.
I guess anyone who's interested can ring and check it is what they want. Not sure why it needs reporting there is nothing in the advert that is making it out to be something it isn't, apart from the suggested creasing.

 

[ycbm]

You don't think it's a issue that it's being sold as equivalent to a new one, when the seat weighs several pounds more - and weight is a big issue with these saddles - and the panels are not interchangeable - when the interchageability is the main reason why most people buy these saddles?

I do, and it's doing no harm to let people who are less sharp eyed than me, or who don't know the little design changes that give away major internal modifications, that this saddle simply isn't worth what is being asked for it even though it looks good from the outside.

 

[jrp204]

It says it was bought brand new, it may have been, they may have recently paid £2600. It may be 9 yrs old and they may have been ripped off. Maybe the saddle was what they wanted and due to illness was never used. It does not state it is a new model and you can ring the seller to check the details. To some people it may not matter it's a bit heavier or the panels aren't interchangeable.
They can ask what they want for the saddle and if they overpaid for it I suppose they will want to make something back.

 

[ycbm]

It says it was bought brand new, it may have been, they may have recently paid £2600. It may be 9 yrs old and they may have been ripped off. Maybe the saddle was what they wanted and due to illness was never used. It does not state it is a new model and you can ring the seller to check the details. To some people it may not matter it's a bit heavier or the panels aren't interchangeable.
They can ask what they want for the saddle and if they overpaid for it I suppose they will want to make something back.

It says 'cost new £2,600' and also says it was bought new.

I personally think that is extremely misleading and suggests that this actual saddle cost £2,600 and is therefore nearly new. Only people like me who really know WOWs inside out will be able to tell that it isn't. I think the ad is practically fraudulent, but for the moment I will assume that the seller simply doesn't know how out of date in two crucial ways this saddle is.


Anyway, I'm grateful for you bumping this thread so that plenty of people will get to see it.

 

[smellsofhorse]

Anyone buying on eBay has to be careful.
Plus buying a saddle for that amount of money they should do proper checks and look carefully at the pictures and even ask for more.
Looking at their feedback I don't think they are dodgy. Maybe just clueless about saddles!

 

[Makemineacob]

Why not ask the seller a question (by email through ebay) as to how old it is? If they are trying to be misleading then you will have concrete proof and can report the listing.

 

[ycbm]

Anyone buying on eBay has to be careful.
Plus buying a saddle for that amount of money they should do proper checks and look carefully at the pictures and even ask for more.
Looking at their feedback I don't think they are dodgy. Maybe just clueless about saddles!

Agreed.

But if I can help an HHOer not make an expensive mistake, it's costing only my time to do it

If he ever answers me about how old it actually is, I'll update the thread.

 

[ycbm]

Why not ask the seller a question (by email through ebay) as to how old it is? If they are trying to be misleading then you will have concrete proof and can report the listing.

I have, as I posted above. I can't report the listing, as I have posted above.

 

[conniegirl]

no where does it say or imply it was bought new recently!

It could have been bought from new a number of years ago and then stored due to the illness, often people will hang on to things for years hoping that they will one day be well enough to be able to use them!

 

[ycbm]

The most amazing black 18 inch brand-new WOW Saddle. Cost new £2600 this is the general-purpose model and so incredibly comfortable you would not believe it.

As you know these saddles can be adjusted in every way possible and is therefore ideal for any horse around 15 16.2

no where does it say or imply it was bought new recently!

It could have been bought from new a number of years ago and then stored due to the illness, often people will hang on to things for years hoping that they will one day be well enough to be able to use them!

Does that text not strongly imply to you that it is current and was bought. for £2,600? It does to me.

Also, it is NOT fully adjustable. It lacks two bolt holes that are required to attach the current design of panel, so it will not be possible to change the panels without sending it back to the manufacturer to have the bolt holes added, if they can be.

No answer yet to my query, I'll update if I get one.

 

[conniegirl]

No actually I don't read anywhere that even vaguely implies it was bought recently. As for the price how do you know that they didn't pay £2600 for it when they bought it new?
Any saddle where the gullet can be changed is often concidered fully adjustable.

I realy don't see why you are getting your knickers in such a twist about this.
It does not read to me as though they are trying to rip anyone off just that the saddle has been sitting around for a while and They have finally come to the point where they either need to sell it to fund something or the wife has finally lost hope of ever riding again and the saddle is now causing unwanted emotions

 

[webble]

No actually I don't read anywhere that even vaguely implies it was bought recently. As for the price how do you know that they didn't pay £2600 for it when they bought it new?
Any saddle where the gullet can be changed is often concidered fully adjustable.

I realy don't see why you are getting your knickers in such a twist about this.
It does not read to me as though they are trying to rip anyone off just that the saddle has been sitting around for a while and They have finally come to the point where they either need to sell it to fund something or the wife has finally lost hope of ever riding again and the saddle is now causing unwanted emotions

^^this

 

[ycbm]

Well I've shown the advert, without discussing it, to several people and asked them to tell me how long ago they thought the saddle was bought, and all of them said it was bought within the last few months. So there are plenty of people who are not as clever as Webble and Conniegirl, and for them, I'm happy to try to stop them from getting a huge disappointment by finding out they can't even change the panels on a 'new' WOW saddle and it weighs a ton more than they expected it to.

No answer to my question from the seller yet.

 

[webble]

Well I've shown the advert, without discussing it, to several people and asked them to tell me how long ago they thought the saddle was bought, and all of them said it was bought within the last few months. So there are plenty of people who are not as clever as Webble and Conniegirl, and for them, I'm happy to try to stop them from getting a huge disappointment by finding out they can't even change the panels on a 'new' WOW saddle and it weighs a ton more than they expected it to.

No answer to my question from the seller yet.

If the tone of your question to the seller was similar to the tone of your posts on here I wouldn't answer you either if I was the seller, you seem disproportionately angry about something that could be taken more than one way and could also be an innocent mistake

 

[katherinef]

Agreed.

But if I can help an HHOer not make an expensive mistake, it's costing only my time to do it

If he ever answers me about how old it actually is, I'll update the thread.

The seller by the way has 100% positive feedback.
In any event if they are selling for personal reasons they may feel quite emotionally sensitive as it is so I don't think this is helping the situation really.
I would back off I think.

 

[Casey76]

Anyone looking seriously for a saddle wouldn't believe that saddle to be new.

Not with the scratches on the cantle and the indentations where the stirrup leathers sit.

 

[Dry Rot]

If I remember my contract law correctly (from back in the Stone Age), an advertisement is an "invitation to treat" so intended to draw in an interested party to discuss matters further and make a deal. I realise the law changed some time during the Bronze Age and an advertisement can now be considered as part of the contract but I don't think you are meant to take what an advertisement, especially one posted by a private seller, as the gospel truth. If you'd been led to buy the item on the basis of what was written in the advert, that would be a different matter. You'd have grounds to return it. But you've used your knowledge and intelligence to work out that the advert might be misleading. The sensible thing would be to contact the seller and ask specific questions. If the answers are untrue, then that is misrepesentation and a dfferent matter. But I'm not a lawyer and could very well be wrong! Never ever believe everything it says in the advert. It is designed to draw you in for further negotiations! A lot of sellers will also (quite rightly!) leave out the bad bits. They are not obliged to volunteer information but they are obliged to answer truthfully if you ask (but that's not a lot of good if you can't prove they've lied!).

 

[ycbm]

Why is anyone on this forum bothered about someone wanting to post facts about a saddle for sale?

I'm not expressing any opinions about the seller. All I want is to try to protect an innocent buyer from making a bad mistake. Why is that wrong?

Webble, The question I asked the seller was can you tell me how old your saddle is please'. I have not had an answer yet.

 

[Doormouse]

Seller notes: “Bought brand-new for my wife 8 years ago and never used as she was diagnosed with arthritis just afterwards following a fall. Has only ever been on the horse for a fitting and one outing.”

That is in the seller notes, I read that first so knew it was bought 8 years ago.

 

[Goldenstar]

It's very clear the saddle is at least eight years old ,the listing makes it crystal clear.
It's clearly lightly used rather than unused .
It far far too much money but the pictures are good and very clearly show it's condition so I don't really see a big issue .

 

[ycbm]

It's very clear the saddle is at least eight years old ,the listing makes it crystal clear.
It's clearly lightly used rather than unused .
It far far too much money but the pictures are good and very clearly show it's condition so I don't really see a big issue .

Seller notes have been changed this morning since I last posted.. Good result

 

[Leo Walker]

As someone who just bought a second hand saddle fro ebay for a 1/5th of what thats advertised for, I read the ad, looked at the pictures, then called the manufacturer to confirm using the serial number. I think most people who are interested in buying a saddle, apart from the few that take a gamble on a very cheap potential bargain, make the proper checks.

I cant imagine that anyone buying one of these saddles doesnt do the same. People who buy WOWs either have one already or have a list of the specific parts that they need from their fitter dont they? Plus who spends that amount of money on a whim without checking it out first?

 

[Annagain]

I see the seller's notes have been updated this morning, which is good. Not sure if the actual description has changed too, but I take it to mean that if you were to buy a similar saddle brand new now it would cost you £2,600, not that this particular saddle cost them that price. I agree it's not the clearest description though.

 

[fatpiggy]

As someone who just bought a second hand saddle fro ebay for a 1/5th of what thats advertised for, I read the ad, looked at the pictures, then called the manufacturer to confirm using the serial number. I think most people who are interested in buying a saddle, apart from the few that take a gamble on a very cheap potential bargain, make the proper checks.

I cant imagine that anyone buying one of these saddles doesnt do the same. People who buy WOWs either have one already or have a list of the specific parts that they need from their fitter dont they? Plus who spends that amount of money on a whim without checking it out first?

Your final paragraph - made me laugh! You wouldn't believe how many people do exactly that then go whining to anyone who will listen to them including the press and TV. All they do is highlight their own stupidity. There was one a couple of days ago - woman bought two TVs from a white van driver and found the boxes were empty when she got them home. Remember the adage "a fool and his money are soon parted".

 

[Luci07]

Well, I think the original ad was misleading because I would have thought the saddle was almost new!

 

[Leo Walker]

Your final paragraph - made me laugh! You wouldn't believe how many people do exactly that then go whining to anyone who will listen to them including the press and TV. All they do is highlight their own stupidity. There was one a couple of days ago - woman bought two TVs from a white van driver and found the boxes were empty when she got them home. Remember the adage "a fool and his money are soon parted".

I'm half heartedly selling the two saddles I have that dont fit, and everyone so far has asked sensible questions and anyone seriously interested has asked for the serial number. For the record though, despite GFS stamping their saddles with a serial number, they dont keep records! So I have had to get them to confirm in writing that it is what I say it is, otherwise people are too wary that its not as described

 

[LouiseHa58]

FIRSTLY, I AM THE OWNER OF THE LOVELY WOW SADDLE. Normally I do not get involved with people such as "ycbm" but madam you have gone one step too far. I have seen the advert that my husband put on his EBay account and there was absolutely no ambiguity. It was described on EBay as New (Other - “Bought brand-new for my wife and never used as she was diagnosed with arthritis just afterwards following a fall. Has only ever been on the horse for a fitting and one outing.”)

Interested parties were told straight away that it was bought for me just before my diagnosis of a life changing degenerative disease, Early Onset Osteo Arthritis which we believe could have been caused by a fall. As you come across as a busy body you can hear the back story. After having 5 trapped nerves removed and a back injury I was inching my way back to health, I was bought a cross trainer and a treadmill costing far in excess of the price of this saddle, I was also bought a beautifully bred calm Irish Cob as my Hanoverian sports horse was too much of a man for me after this kind of an injury. I had a beautiful day having this WOW saddle custom built for me and the mare by our trusted, reputable saddler. Indeed on the same day my husband also bought two saddles from her as well as all the tack for the Irish mare. I like every other horse woman was full of plans and expectations, but I knew I had to work to become fit enough to carry these plans out. Within a matter of days I came off the treadmill, my knee was swollen and I put it down to the previous fall. I rested for 6 weeks and at last gave in to seeing a specialist and having it x-rayed. I was devastated to find the diagnosis was early onset arthritis. Without further ado I was told that I was too young for a knee replacement and as a degenerative disease, with no cure, all I had to look forward to was pain management (which is not possible I assure you). How dare you suggest that I have been riding with that saddle when I am finding it difficult to even walk up the stairs. I am a registered Blue Badge holder, going from a healthy fit country person who has been surrounded by horses and animals all my life to working out how far I can walk in the supermarket before having to turn around as I may not make it back! My darling husband has left no stone unturned and I have seen specialists from one end of the country to the other including Beckham's orthopaedic surgeon to Professor Shetty, the top stem cell consultant in the country. As one of the thoughtful contributors to this forum suggested to you, that it was perfectly reasonable to think that someone with an illness would hold onto a saddle in the hope of getting better! Let me thank her/him right now. She was half right. I am a fighter and since this devastating diagnosis, I have not given up hope even though I am increasingly immobile. Great strides are being made in stem cell research and I intend to know of every single advancement. You have caused me in your unfounded vociferous rant, great mental anguish and deep distress, having to re-live some of the darkest moments that other people have been known to take their own life for in the fear of the future and what it may bring to them.

I do not intend to let you get away with this. I have been entertaining this weekend and one of my dear friends husband is a QC, she has looked at your defamatory and unfounded accusations and she is not only adamant that it is libel, she feels it is written I.I.E.D. as well as trying to prejudice a sale which leads me to your assertion that it is over priced. This saddle has NEVER BEEN USED, it has never been cleaned or saddle soaped as it has never gotten dirty as once again it has NEVER BEEN USED. You are quite at liberty to think what you will about the price just as I am at liberty to price it at what it is worth to me. It is the most reluctant of sales and looking at it once again I really don't wish to part with it although I would have no expectation of using it again in the future even if I do recover to the point of riding again. It is my last link with my old life.

How dare you suggest there is anything misleading or either myself or my husband would sell to someone who obviously didn't know what they were doing. You madam have gone beyond the pale. You further suggested that there are creases in the twist. I have looked over those pictures which my husband took at close quarters in high resolution and with flash, even to the point of showing the dust on the saddle horse. There are no creases. There is only the difference in the leather tension from a highly sculptured seat. You are making a fool of yourself and to top it all you have neither seen the saddle nor asked for further pictures nor contacted us on the mobile number provided and you are AT THE MOMENT hiding behind the anonymity of this forum. To add wild insult to unsubstantiated injury, you sound like a wild football thug with your smug assertion "RESULT".

Now the point is you asked my husband this question on EBay "I'm confused about your description for this saddle. From the stirrup bar covers (short, no stitch line) it has the heavy resin seat which has not been made by WOW for about eight years now. Can you please confirm how old it is? Thanks."

He replied, "Yes my wife bought it quite a few years ago and quite literally was diagnosed unable to ride again following a knee injury directly afterwards she fell off a different horse not this one and bought this saddle and horse for when she recovered but sadly she never did. She's kept the saddle ever since because she simply couldn't bear to part with it and admit she wouldn't be writing again hope this helps".

My husband immediately added to the description on EBay under the description NEW (Other) as follows, "“Bought brand-new for my wife approx 8 years ago and never used as she was diagnosed with arthritis just afterwards following a fall. Has only ever been on the horse for a fitting and one outing.” I.e. adding the words, "APPROX 8 YEARS AGO" to the description to ensure that there could be no ambiguity. As you will see from his EBay feedback he has a 100% reputation of which he is rightly proud and which was also pointed out to you by another contributor to this forum. You then subsequently start this unreasonable thread despite the EBay advert already having been updated by husband immediately he had answered your EBay question of his own volition although no one else seems to have misunderstood.

Surely a sane well mannered person would have approached the perceived problem thus, "I have seen your advert and I hope you don't mind if I make a suggestion that it may not be immediately obvious to some that the brand new does not mean that it was brand new this year, I think it might be better if you amend your advert to avoid ambiguity". My husband as a decent gentleman and would have thanked you and made the suggested amendment immediately. Had you the merest of actual interest, you would have checked back on EBay and seen for yourself that he had already amended the advert BEFORE YOU STARTED YOU PROVOCATIVE THREAD. Indeed it seems this is your only intent. To conclude you have tried to provoke, this beautiful unused saddle is in excellent condition. It was fitted especially for my horse and anyone who were to have it could only find it an extremely beautiful piece of equipment and an asset to their tack room. On top of all that I do not care if it sells or not as I only allowed the offer of sale as my husband was selling some of his saddles and at his suggestion.

Out of this has at least brought some merriment to my friends over the weekend, one who is a criminal psychologist who thought your unfounded assertions were almost pathological and seemed to her that you have a deep sense of insecurity with an even greater need to seek attention. Whereas my friend with her QC husband took it into her own hands to print it off for him to look at when they return from holiday in the New Year. While everybody went about the house seeing creases in cushions and asking when the sofa was bought etc. and making endless jokes.

I on the other hand am taking this seriously, I have been though too much in the past few years to stand by and see my darling husband who has gone though so much for me be portrayed in such a light by somebody over an innocent advert for what is in anybody's standards a beautiful saddle. It is hideous and ridiculous in equal measure. But thank you to the other contributors to this forum for their sensible measured comments. May I wish them a Merry Christmas a Happy New Year and joyful riding. I only wish I could join you.

And to you madam, you can be assured because of your added provocation I will not be leaving it here.