Written off at 3 years old

I don't know enough about NH to answer that, TB. IMO NH was good old fashioned common sense originally and then it went mad, was given a name and marketable extras and it all went a bit silly.
I have never grasped the right brain extrovert/introvert thing, all my horse thinks about is food...(JOKING!).
 
Clodagh said:
I don't know enough about NH to answer that, TB. IMO NH was good old fashioned common sense originally and then it went mad, was given a name and marketable extras and it all went a bit silly.
I have never grasped the right brain extrovert/introvert thing, all my horse thinks about is food...(JOKING!).
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Ah yes im not overly a fan of it, but it confuses me and i don't really understand it or the techniques :o
 
As e Ireland said of all the horses I've started have never bucked. I'm not for or against NH as said earlier really it's all basic knowledge and common sense anyway. As for this starving of water and seperating from others to so called bond with the trainer what on earth do they think is going to happen the moment that horse clocks another horse in the arena or hacking or in general when it's been deprived. Backing a horse is such an important stage they learn the basic skills they need as a horse in those first stages and it's up to us being the ones breaking or starting whichever u prefer to do it properly and in the best way for the horse. As e Ireland said the only horse I've ever had react to a saddle was one that we found had pain issues and there is no way that after a horse was unhappy with a saddle on you would put s person on board in the hope behaviour and reactions would improve. Does make me cross when people give it a go and it doesn't work out . It's the poor horses that get tarnished as dangerous, aggressive and sharp when it can be avoided with patience and understanding. I hope th. Horse finds a ttrusting and patient home to start his education as he doesn't seem to have had much of a start at the moment.
 
Good question Tessybear!

My horse was 'parellied' as a youngster, although not during backing (that was even worse by the sounds of it) if I had known I probably wouldn't have bought her which would have been a shame. It does make things confusing for us both sometimes!
 
The best horse I got given was parelli trained ( so called) and claimed unrideable. Well she jumps her heart out and going up the ranks in eventing :) not with me though. Seeing them try to load her said it all to me.
 
I've watched some of the videos and can see the attraction.
But, something at the back of my mind seems wrong.

As people say, the whole NH thing is not that different from traditional. Take your time, do things slowly and without force and when the horse is ready, take the next step.

But somethings missing in what I'm watching with Parelli. They seem to turn the horses into automaton/drones.
And the short cuts they use, the halters, the small pens, the coercion.

It's very forceful but it kids the audience into believing that it's not. It's like watching a magician, you know they are tricking you but through misdirection you miss the trick.
And it's only when you have some empathy/understanding of horses that you see that.
 
Aarrghimpossiblepony said:
I've watched some of the videos and can see the attraction.
But, something at the back of my mind seems wrong.

As people say, the whole NH thing is not that different from traditional. Take your time, do things slowly and without force and when the horse is ready, take the next step.

But somethings missing in what I'm watching with Parelli. They seem to turn the horses into automaton/drones.
And the short cuts they use, the halters, the small pens, the coercion.

It's very forceful but it kids the audience into believing that it's not. It's like watching a magician, you know they are tricking you but through misdirection you miss the trick.
And it's only when you have some empathy/understanding of horses that you see that.
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Some people talk absolute *******s.
 
Just out of curiosity, my filly plays in the field and def chooses to buck in play, do you think this will cause issues at backing? She is two currently so I'm a way off having to worry yet! But bucking is being seen as pain on this thread where as she does it in play? Thoughts?
 
dianchi said:
Just out of curiosity, my filly plays in the field and def chooses to buck in play, do you think this will cause issues at backing? She is two currently so I'm a way off having to worry yet! But bucking is being seen as pain on this thread where as she does it in play? Thoughts?
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No - she is playing - even my Clydesdale has a buck or three when she is feeling good and she gets off the ground but has never done it to me under saddle.

Prepare her well and she should be fine.
 
Tell the owner to look at sending youngster to a proper western trainer for starting. Somewhere like Oakridge QHs or Sovereign QHs.
 
I can find one certified Parelli trainer in Essex, so either it's her or it is a trainer who doesn't actually have the right to call themselves a Parelli trainer. And, as far as I can see from the website, the Essex Parelli instructor isn't licenced by them to sell her services as a young horse starter. For those who don't know, Parelli licence their "professionals" at different levels depending on experience. Young horse starting is a specialism, and not every Parelli instructor is considered ready to do that.
 
tessybear said:
Can i ask a stupid question ?

What is the NH way of backing a youngster ? How does it differ from traditional ways and also if a youngster was broken to NH techniques if they were sold on to people who did Traditional riding would if confuse the horse ?

:)

Thanks
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To answer this... I don't know so much about Parelli young horse starting these days. When I did, if it was done well then the horse would transfer fine to traditional riding.

However, the question is about the NH way of backing a youngster, and NH can be very different to what people expect from Parelli. A good "NH" style trainer will just produce good riding horses, as will any other trainer, and therefore there won't be any conflict with traditional riding at all. Of course you'd send the horse to someone who was more "western" if you wanted a western horse, but that's not what it's about. I'll quote Jason Webb as an example, he is starting young horses and re-starting problem horses all the time. They go home to "traditional" lives. His own horses play Polocrosse. The NH trainer might do some things differently in the foundation stages (like doing the initial sit-on bareback) but they should end up with the right result.

The case we're talking about sounds like an example of a bad trainer, that's about it. They might claim to use Parelli methods, but whatever, they seem to be rubbish at it. Just as are so many who are attached to the BHS label. If you want to send your young horse away to be started check the trainer out thoroughly first and make sure you can do plenty of visiting to watch the process. If you hand your horse over to a nutter then you can't expect a good result.
 
Sorry but there may have been someone representing themselves as pnh. But this is not what I have seem from them. I rode my beautifully broken on boy for the first time im months and he has not done much in 5 years and he is responsive and as light as his fitness will allow.

I had a rescue horse and my pnh trainer put a lot of time into her as she was a bucker and he taught me what to do with her, and to be honest I do not think many others Would have bothered or been as successful. She was an extreme case and I learnt a lot.
 
Tnavas said:
No - she is playing - even my Clydesdale has a buck or three when she is feeling good and she gets off the ground but has never done it to me under saddle.

Prepare her well and she should be fine.
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My youngsters have all been ace broncos in the field, that horrible buck when they tuck their head between their front legs and leap, spine first, into the air then spin before doing it all again, interdisperesed with the odd fly buck. Thank goodness not one has yet done it under saddle.
 
TPO said:
Tell the owner to look at sending youngster to a proper western trainer for starting. Somewhere like Oakridge QHs or Sovereign QHs.
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I recommended that, as I think it is the Western she is as interested in as the Parelli, but they are too expensive! TBH, how much is your horse's life and ultimately your life worth.
 
Tinypony said:
I can find one certified Parelli trainer in Essex, so either it's her or it is a trainer who doesn't actually have the right to call themselves a Parelli trainer. And, as far as I can see from the website, the Essex Parelli instructor isn't licenced by them to sell her services as a young horse starter. For those who don't know, Parelli licence their "professionals" at different levels depending on experience. Young horse starting is a specialism, and not every Parelli instructor is considered ready to do that.
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I don't actually think her being Parelli is anything to do with the problem, she is just ignorant about horses, which is fine, so is my OH but he doesn't sell his services as a trainer. I don't know who this person is. THey may well be someone who watched Parelli on Horse and Country and decided it was the way forward!
 
Clodagh said:
I don't actually think her being Parelli is anything to do with the problem, she is just ignorant about horses, which is fine, so is my OH but he doesn't sell his services as a trainer. I don't know who this person is. THey may well be someone who watched Parelli on Horse and Country and decided it was the way forward!
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Agreed, I think that's pretty much what I said. There are loads of piss-poor "horse trainers" about.
 
I did Parelli years ago before it became very commercialised. I had excellent results with my horse at the time. Over the years I have used a mix of tradition and natural methods and am happy with what I now do. I do have friends who still use Parelli. One has been to America twice and it almost a 1 star instructor. She has many horses, all backed by Parelli and they are awesome. My other friend has just backed her Sec D with Parelli and she is going fabulously too.

Many many many "trainers" in all disciplines ruin horses on a daily basis because they are not up to the job. You are not an automatic horse ruiner if you do natural horsemanship.

I am not sticking up for Parelli at all. It is very commercialised now and Pat himself does a lot of things I don't agree with.

A couple of weeks ago I went to a local show to watch my friend in the 65cm jumping. There was a Parelli horse there. Parelli bridle, bit, reins, Parelli saddle and saddle cloth, etc etc (we worked out the horse was wearing about 5k worth of stuff) The woman was in full Parelli merchandise and sporting a cowboy hat which she did swap for a riding hat before getting on (eventually) Well, it was like watching a new rider and a green horse! She kicked and kicked and kicked and flapped like a chicken (not something Parelli teaches!) she socked the poor horse in the mouth at every jump, which was knocked down. As she passed her OH at the gate (Also looked like a cowboy) She shouted something like she should of brought her other horse as this one was useless! All the gear and no idea sprung to mind!
 
Well with that younsgter I would turn it out in the field and leave it until the end of summer to let it reset itself. Would get handling of the basic variety and some grooming, NO work at all. Then bring in maybe end of Aug and see how its mind is set towards a bridle and roller. If throwing another fit then leave again until spring with just a winter of basic handling, grooming and time spent changing its experiences.

I would then assess in the spring and go from there. I have NO time for parelli or other NH methods, I have nothing personal against any who do as I have friends who do but it is not something i would try or encourage, but again nothing personal to those for whom it works for.
 
HaffiesRock said:
I did Parelli years ago before it became very commercialised. I had excellent results with my horse at the time. Over the years I have used a mix of tradition and natural methods and am happy with what I now do. I do have friends who still use Parelli. One has been to America twice and it almost a 1 star instructor. She has many horses, all backed by Parelli and they are awesome. My other friend has just backed her Sec D with Parelli and she is going fabulously too.

Many many many "trainers" in all disciplines ruin horses on a daily basis because they are not up to the job. You are not an automatic horse ruiner if you do natural horsemanship.

I am not sticking up for Parelli at all. It is very commercialised now and Pat himself does a lot of things I don't agree with.

A couple of weeks ago I went to a local show to watch my friend in the 65cm jumping. There was a Parelli horse there. Parelli bridle, bit, reins, Parelli saddle and saddle cloth, etc etc (we worked out the horse was wearing about 5k worth of stuff) The woman was in full Parelli merchandise and sporting a cowboy hat which she did swap for a riding hat before getting on (eventually) Well, it was like watching a new rider and a green horse! She kicked and kicked and kicked and flapped like a chicken (not something Parelli teaches!) she socked the poor horse in the mouth at every jump, which was knocked down. As she passed her OH at the gate (Also looked like a cowboy) She shouted something like she should of brought her other horse as this one was useless! All the gear and no idea sprung to mind!
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I have to say I agree with this post. How often do we see the 'All the gear, no idea crowd,' One of the gripes I have had with Parelli, and there have been a few, is the fact that so much talent is lost because of the pricing system, but, you can get around that if you really want to.
 
I don't think you can blame parelli for this, its obviously an individual that claims to be a trainer, then finds its difficult to get results with this horse and so decides to make up some excuse at the expense of the owner and horse.

No matter what kind of humane training style you use it should be coupled with common sense, empathy and respect for the horse. I think there must be loads of people out there with the dvd's following it to the Nth degree but just dont have a clue because they lack certain skills themselves like coordination, sensitivity etc and their goal is misplaced. Hope the horse finds a new sympathetic owner and skilled in whatever style, Parelli or other, its the outcome that matters
 
If anyone is interested in an update, the owner moved the horse to a Parelli trainer down in Hampshire and he is going great guns, is backed and ridden away. She is now going down there to have a weeks training with trainer and horse before she brings him home. She is delighted and has got a sweet little horse again. Good news!
 
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