Wrong To Get Off?

[kez81]

I'm in the get and and lead camp. I used to ride in a lot of traffic, so leaping about and napping was just too dangerous, dismounting and then remounting when safe, was the only sensible option. I found that an object that i had to dismount for yesterday (one was a fly tipped fridge) could generally be ridden past (albeit at super fast trot) the following day and was then less of an issue after that. I always made sure that she stood perfectly for me to dismount, lead sensibly and that she stood perfectly for me to remount, so she was having to do as she was asked.

It's funny as I have ridden with 'don't get off or the horse wins' people and every bleddy gate has had to be opened by me, plus I've had to dismount to pick up their dropped phones, sort slipping brushing boots on their horses and even a slipped saddle with them still mounted as they can't get on again. Speaks volumes IMO.

We must have ridden out with same idiots!

 

[windseywoo]

I'm also in the get off camp. If the horse won't go past something because genuinely worried then I'll happily pop off, give him a pat and walk past whatever is the issue and he'll follow me no questions asked. He knows that if "mums" happy to walk past then its ok!! Yes it may be a bit of a pain getting back on, but its better than having a battle on board that I probably will "lose"!! I'm don't get off all the time, but I do find once I've lead past something I don't have to do it again. They probably only say that because they can't get back on once dismounted themselves.
Do what you think is right for your new horse and ignore other peoples unwanted comments.

 

[Goldenstar]

It depends what you want .
If you want a hunter or event horse you can't allow the horse not to go into water when you have asked it too .
I never ever allow a horse to avoid a puddle but I don't put myself into positions where I can lose with a young horse either .
Horse that won't go past things or into puddles have training issues that need addressing in school as well as hacking out .
Riders need training to have secure positions and the correct reactions to prevent trouble and support the horse when it's not confident .
These issues show the horse does not either feel confident in you as a leader or does not accept you as a leader I would ask yourself why that is.
One of the first things I teach my horse is the leg yield shoulder in positioning if they don't like the look of anything they get leg yielded past it then I go on as before no fuss no petting just a quick pat .
As a rider never ever look at the spooky yourself in a leg yield I would look forward and slightly in the direction of the flexion .
Of course the leg yield won't help you get through a puddle crossing a track and it's unfortunate if that happens if this horse where mine I would getting it water training as soon as I could .

 

[conniegirl]

I would not have got off.

I'm very much in the ride them through it camp and my young horse will now go anywhere I need him to (even upto his belly in a river), whether he has seen it before or not. Personaly if she was spooking at a puddle I would have made her walk through it several times. Everytime you get off and lead them past you are teaching them that if they play up you get off thier backs and they get out of doing work, this often leads to horses that play up every time they dont feel like doing something.

I had a friend who got off the horse everytime something got spooky, They were a nightmare to hack out with as the horse would barely go 100 yards before finding something to spook at, then said friend got off, lead them past what ever was spooky and then spent 5 mins trying to find something to mount from (16.2hh from the ground is difficult and also puts enormous strain on a horses back). Eventualy I got so fed up I swapped horses with her, I had one hefty discussion about going past some painted road markings where I conviced the horse that going past it was the far better option, and then we went on with the 30 min hack with very little problem, if she spooked I put my leg on and growled at her and she walked past. I moved off the yard a few months later but now apparently the horse is back to its old tricks and it has escalated and it happens in the school now so soon the owner wont be able to ride at all!

The above horse was just being naughty, however with genuinely worried horses I encourage them to go and touch what ever is worrying them, and praised highly everytime they take a step towards it, ignoreing backwards steps other than to pop leg on a bit and ask them to go forwards again.

But it is your horse and I would not have given you my oppinion unless you directly asked.

 

[Merrymoles]

It depends what you want .
If you want a hunter or event horse you can't allow the horse not to go into water when you have asked it too .
I never ever allow a horse to avoid a puddle but I don't put myself into positions where I can lose with a young horse either .
Horse that won't go past things or into puddles have training issues that need addressing in school as well as hacking out .
Riders need training to have secure positions and the correct reactions to prevent trouble and support the horse when it's not confident .
These issues show the horse does not either feel confident in you as a leader or does not accept you as a leader I would ask yourself why that is.
One of the first things I teach my horse is the leg yield shoulder in positioning if they don't like the look of anything they get leg yielded past it then I go on as before no fuss no petting just a quick pat .
As a rider never ever look at the spooky yourself in a leg yield I would look forward and slightly in the direction of the flexion .
Of course the leg yield won't help you get through a puddle crossing a track and it's unfortunate if that happens if this horse where mine I would getting it water training as soon as I could .

I agree with all of this in principle but the OP has only had the horse a fortnight and I think her way was probably correct at this stage. As I said, I've always been in the "stay on" camp until recently but none of the tactics I tried on Sunday was working and my horse was getting more and more wound up so, rather than put myself and companion at risk, I hopped off. However, we will be continuing to use the same bridlepath and I will expect him to pass without a fuss next time.
I also think that wind can upset horses on occasions and we, too, had quite a lot of wind that day. My horse relies heavily on his ears and I suspect he became upset because he was unable to hear in his normal way.
As I say, I agree that this is a training issue but sometimes during an "incident" is not the right time to train. I suspect that had I forced my horse to walk past the "bogeyman", he would have either reared or rushed and, as there were other people using the bridlepath, I chose not to force it.

ETA - I was particularly pleased with myself for mounting from the "wrong" side which is something I have struggled with until recently - 40-odd years of habit is hard to break. Even while I was hopping on, I had to think about what I was doing with my left leg However, this is something I have been training myself to do as it's useful in some situations.

 

[gunnergundog]

I wouldn't have got off and am amazed at how few posters are of that opinion too - changing times???

Set your horse up to succeed has always been my mantra; horses get confidence from their rider, but sadly there seems to be a dearth of confident riders around nowadays - or at least that is my perception based on the posts on this forum in recent time........I wonder if the posters here are a typical cross-representation of the riding public or not??

 

[SpringArising]

I wouldn't have got off. It's too much effort!

I always sit things like this out. If you always get on/off etc. how will things ever progress?

 

[Nik90]

I used to & sometimes still do have to lead mine past, over or through things. Works quite well as he has learned that we're going that way one way or another, so he doesn't fight me the same anymore & he does get over whatever it is that's bothering him. He hates water & I eventually got him through a river which was over his knees by leading him through the shallower parts first.

 

[Kikke]

Every situation is different and if a horse is really scared and unwilling to walk past something popping off and walking past may well be the best option. unless you have to do so everytime you gomout I don't think it has anything to do with the horse "winning"

I personally never jump off my horse while out (unless they have a stone or something like that that needs seeing to) I remember doing that while I was coming back from ponyclub 25 years ago or so and lost my pony as she pulled away. shw ran home, crossing a motorway on her own!! so therefore I will not come off as I feel I am more in control when on top.

 

[acorn92x]

Thank you for all of your replies, I am very glad that I am not the only person who would have gotten off! She did walk through some smaller puddles later on in the hack but I would not have made her walk through the one she specifically had an issue with at that time as it was huge. She has mainly hacked on roads prior to me getting her so gigantic lake type puddles haven't been something she has been overly familiar with. Some may say that's wrong but I wasn't going to make her run before she can walk. As far as I am concerned there was absolutely no malice in her actions and she was genuinely nervous. You wouldn't force a nervous human to do something they were uncomfortable with so a horse should not be forced into this situation imo either and I think getting off and leading from the ground gave her suppport and made her feel comfortable to go past. She know I was there and I was talking to her and reassuring her the whole time as she responds well to the voice. My horse is very well behaved, stands still for me to mount, dismount, won't move off until I ask etc so I don't think there is a huge risk of me not being able to get back on etc if I ever have to dismount.

To those posters who have said that they wouldn't have gotten off and would have pushed through it, I can completely see where you are coming from, particularly with a horse which is just being naughty but with one which is nervous, I'm not sure. Perhaps it's a confidence issue on my part (I'm not some quivering nervous nelly but I wouldn't put myself in a position particularly whilst hacking where me or my horse could come to harm) but surely nervous horses need support as well as a confident rider? In some situations, surely you have a more reassuring presence on the ground - the horse can see you rather than feel you which may provide some reassurance here too. Yes I could have waited but this was at 7:45pm and I still had 40 mins more riding to do and I wouldn't have wanted to be going back in the dark on a horse I'd had for a fortnight on my own.

It's all horses for courses really, each horse and rider are individuals and both types have their own merits here.

 

[MissMoo]

I would just ignore them! She's your horse and you can do what you like. I would always rather get off and get past it than try and fight a losing battle to get your horse past it whilst still riding. Why make a big deal out of something when you can make it simpler whilst getting off? The horse won't know the difference between you getting of and staying on really, she just knows that she went past the scary thing!

This might not work for all horses but has always worked for me and the horses I have ridden.

This exactly!

 

[Piaffe123]

Out of interest... those in the make them go through it camp what would your view be if you were on a busier road with cars coming past and your horse is threatening to rear?

I don't think it's as straight forward as saying you'd never get off, there's always going to be a time when it's safer to stay on or safer to get off.

 

[Goldenstar]

Out of interest... those in the make them go through it camp what would your view be if you were on a busier road with cars coming past and your horse is threatening to rear?

I don't think it's as straight forward as saying you'd never get off, there's always going to be a time when it's safer to stay on or safer to get off.

Would not be there with out a well behaved companion on a horse I did not trust to behave .
I would never get off on a busy road .
I would use the companion to block the naughty horse in and reassure it .

 

[laura_nash]

I often pop off and walk mine past or up to something genuinely scary, especially if I'm on a time limit or with someone else. I do it more with my current horse because he is nice and small so I can hop back on no problem. If I'm on my own and have plenty of time I'm more likely to wait it out. I don't think the horse thinks you are "losing" at all, he thinks you are providing the reassurance he needs when he is scared. I would be more worried about the treading on your heels, that is something you will probably want to address going forward with some groundwork / leading practice. I think another reason I would prefer to hop off when my hacking companions would insist on staying on board and battling it out is because I have more control on the ground (from doing groundwork etc.) whereas they felt they had more control in the saddle. I often had to give my hacking companions a lead past scary objects (from the saddle), but whether that has anything to do with the fact that I will hop off or is just because my horse is not very spooky and / or I have spent time spookbusting in the school is difficult to say. Mine is certainly not more spooky from doing it anyway!

When I ask mine to work properly in the school, especially if he has had some time off or someone new is riding him, he likes to have a bit of a strop first and that is (I believe) learned behaviour from his previous owner who used to back down and let him plod, or even get off, when he did it, but that is totally different from him being genuinely nervous.

As someone else mentioned, when you have a new horse there is always someone (or several someones) who decide to tell you how you should do everything - whether you asked or not. Sadly in my experience they're not usually the people with the best advice either (or the best behaved horses).

Hopefully it was just the wind and combination of circumstances, especially with her being new, but I would definately do some water training in a controlled situation when you have plenty of time. There's nothing more irritating than hacking a horse that won't go through puddles. I was lucky with mine as his previous owner kept him in a field with a river running through the middle, we always had to give everyone a lead through the local ford as he doesn't even hesitate.

 

[Piaffe123]

Would not be there with out a well behaved companion on a horse I did not trust to behave .
I would never get off on a busy road .
I would use the companion to block the naughty horse in and reassure it .

Two abreast on a busy road though?

Thing is I wouldn't go on a busy road with a horse I didn't trust either but any horse can get spooked by something.

 

[turkana]

Would not be there with out a well behaved companion on a horse I did not trust to behave .
I would never get off on a busy road .
I would use the companion to block the naughty horse in and reassure it .

But what if your horse is the one who is usually the well behaved companion? I had an incident in the middle of a village with my normally very good horse - she threw a massive paddy (with bucking & rearing) in the road because she wanted to turn left, not right? I was on my own so I backed down as it was too dangerous to fight it out.
She's been as good as gold since.

 

[EQUIDAE]

Would not be there with out a well behaved companion on a horse I did not trust to behave .
I would never get off on a busy road .
I would use the companion to block the naughty horse in and reassure it .

I bet the local drivers love you... We need to be fostering good relations with motorists, not antagonising them just for the sake of 'winning' a battle with a horse and not getting off.

 

[caras mum]

I wouldn't have got off and am amazed at how few posters are of that opinion too - changing times???

Set your horse up to succeed has always been my mantra; horses get confidence from their rider, but sadly there seems to be a dearth of confident riders around nowadays - or at least that is my perception based on the posts on this forum in recent time........I wonder if the posters here are a typical cross-representation of the riding public or not??

I don't think there is a dearth of confident riders about. I for one would ride anything and have been many a horses first rider.
But times have changed in that our roads, tracks and bridle paths are a lot busier.
Allowing a nervous horses behaviour to escalate to the point where it could explode, buck, rear, try to take of is very very risky when there could be kids, cyclist, buggies, old folk or anything 100 yards round the corner. We do live in busier times and that's probably why the majority of us have had to re-evaluate wither battling through a situation is a wise idea or not. Because the consequences of getting that decision wrong could be devastating.

 

[Lucky788]

I get off if I need to, once I'm on the ground my boy just follows like a dog seemingly forgetting the frightful object/person/plant that we couldn't possibly pass and will stand nicely while I get back on.

I know when he genuinely is frightened and don't want to battle with him so I find this option far easier and safer

 

[Goldenstar]

Two abreast on a busy road though?

Thing is I wouldn't go on a busy road with a horse I didn't trust either but any horse can get spooked by something.

Defiantly two abreast .using the bomb proof grown up one as a block on the offside .

I would not be on a busy road when there might be puddles on a horse that was not ready for that .
I would be there on a horse that would not stand .
I have been riding for just short of fifty years and I have never got off a horse on a busy road .

 

[Piaffe123]

I don't think there is a dearth of confident riders about. I for one would ride anything and have been many a horses first rider.
But times have changed in that our roads, tracks and bridle paths are a lot busier.
Allowing a nervous horses behaviour to escalate to the point where it could explode, buck, rear, try to take of is very very risky when there could be kids, cyclist, buggies, old folk or anything 100 yards round the corner. We do live in busier times and that's probably why the majority of us have had to re-evaluate wither battling through a situation is a wise idea or not. Because the consequences of getting that decision wrong could be devastating.

I quite agree. I'm a confident rider and will get on pretty much anything within reason, but when you have to deal with cars/cyclists/etc coming past you it's not just what you're capable of sitting on.

I also think that just because I can sit a rear doesn't mean that I should have to. It's nice to know I am confident to handle the situation (or at least attempt to!) should it arise but personally I'd rather avoid it happening altogether, call me a wimp if you like.

ETA - Goldenstar I don't think you can ever assume the situation is that black and white with horses but it seems we'll have to agree to disagree. I've only had to get off once and it wasn't really a busy road, but it was one of those circumstances where everything was unusual and not what we had planned. A huge lorry was unloading building goods down the single track road we usually go down and they said they'd be a while, so I went to go the alternative route which involves trotting up a busier road to cut into the other end of the single track lane where the stables are located (the busier road is still a country road to be honest but not single track and does have more cars). She isn't used to that route as I never take it to avoid cars, and then there was scaffolding on a house with flappy banners that just proved to be too much and she planted and tried to spin round, and she was supposedly babysitting a less confident horse on that ride - typical moment of a normally reliable horse letting you down! There were cars coming and her tension and total refusal to go forward was starting to upset the less confident horse, so I just hopped off and she trotted along with me running next to her until we got off the road and I then got back on. I wasn't hugely impressed at having to run up a hill but it avoided an argument in the middle of the road which would have upset the other horse.

Sometimes it isn't ideal at all but it's the safer option.

 

[The Snowman]

I wouldn't have got off and am amazed at how few posters are of that opinion too - changing times???

Set your horse up to succeed has always been my mantra; horses get confidence from their rider, but sadly there seems to be a dearth of confident riders around nowadays - or at least that is my perception based on the posts on this forum in recent time........I wonder if the posters here are a typical cross-representation of the riding public or not??

I don't think that there is a dearth of confident riders nowadays I think that there are a lot of other factors that come into play as well, such as who else you are riding with - if they are on a young horse and the horse you are riding plays up, how is that going to make them react? Not to mention cars, cyclists, pedestrians and dog walkers to watch out for as well! Yes, I realise that you and your horse have to deal with things like this in order for them to not be so scared, but with a new horse sometimes the easier option is the better one, and this occasion it could well have been. I get annoyed with people who constantly dismount all the time, so wouldn't recommend people did it at every little thing, just on the occasion where it could be a battle that you may lose.

I would say I'm a confident rider, don't really mind what I get on, and I will make sure that the horse knows I am in charge and it has to get over scary things, but time and patience is plenty and if you are just getting to know a horse why risk it losing confidence in you?

 

[conniegirl]

Out of interest... those in the make them go through it camp what would your view be if you were on a busier road with cars coming past and your horse is threatening to rear?

I don't think it's as straight forward as saying you'd never get off, there's always going to be a time when it's safer to stay on or safer to get off.

Been in exactly that position, went to cross a 60 mph fairly busy road, horse got to the central white line and threw a tantrum about crossing the painted line. He reared so my schooling whip came down on his bottom so hard that he shot forwards to the other side of the road. He did know better and had been across that road many times previously.
Never had a problem with white lines after that and he never even threatened to rear again.

If it were a young nervous horse I would not be out on a busy road to start with, without havig done sufficient training for the horse not to be bothered. My current baby spent weeks going round the local quiet roads and bridle paths on the long reins before we ever set foot on a busier road. His first busy road was the main road into Hull at rush hour on a Friday, it was not planned, we got lost! But because he had had sufficient training the only problem we had was him wanting to investigate the tractors as they went past.
He also walked into a river up to his belly when asked because he had enough training to trust nothing I asked of him would hurt him! He had only ever seen puddles up to that point and had only been broken 6 months

 

[Speedyfluff]

I wouldn't have got off and am amazed at how few posters are of that opinion too - changing times???

Set your horse up to succeed has always been my mantra; horses get confidence from their rider, but sadly there seems to be a dearth of confident riders around nowadays - or at least that is my perception based on the posts on this forum in recent time........I wonder if the posters here are a typical cross-representation of the riding public or not??

You are assuming that people who say they would have gotten off are lacking in confidence. That certainly isn't the case. Sometimes it is because they are sensibly assessing the danger of the situation and at other times it is because they have learned, like I have, that horses (particularly mares) actually respect you more as a leader for getting off and leading them past. IME it takes much less time to get a nervous horse out hacking past scary things alone by getting off and leading, than it does battling it out. That is certainly my experience, anyway. Having been in the "never get off camp" for many years, I was actually surprised by this but it was one of my defining lightbulb moments.

 

[DD]

You are assuming that people who say they would have gotten off are lacking in confidence. That certainly isn't the case. Sometimes it is because they are sensibly assessing the danger of the situation and at other times it is because they have learned, like I have, that horses (particularly mares) actually respect you more as a leader for getting off and leading them past. IME it takes much less time to get a nervous horse out hacking past scary things alone by getting off and leading, than it does battling it out. That is certainly my experience, anyway. Having been in the "never get off camp" for many years, I was actually surprised by this but it was one of my defining lightbulb moments.

^^^
this

 

[Goldenstar]

I bet the local drivers love you... We need to be fostering good relations with motorists, not antagonising them just for the sake of 'winning' a battle with a horse and not getting off.

It's not about winning a battle my horses are not badly behaved in public because I train them in private .
I have no qualms about riding two a breast if the situation demands it in fact we do to prevent people overtaking in stupid places .
I would be standing on the road until traffic passed and I would stand there all day if that is what it took .
Two horses is no wider than a JCB or a tractor or a little road brushing thingy or two people on bikes .
Two abreast is often the best way to keep a young horse safe if stuff is going a little pear shaped .
My grown up companions don't misbehave on the road , they just don't and my young horses learn from them. I could ride Fatty down a motorway ,he could go from here to the police he would stand all day supporting a young horse if it was needed .

 

[Goldenstar]

just to be clear I am not saying OP was wrong to get off how she wishes to approach her own horses development is up to her not the other people on her yard .

 

[BSL]

I think it depends on the horse and situation. I used to get off my boy and lead him passed/through/over things when he was younger, it helped build his confidence and faith in me and we didn't have anyone else with us to follow. Very, very rarely do I have to do it now. But I will if needed. I dislike this "battle" it out thing. It can end up making a small thing into a big issue. Sometimes they are genuinely scared and just need that extra support on the ground. If it works for you, don't worry about other people.

 

[Barnacle]

As long as you got her past it, getting off was fine IMO. However, personally, I prefer to persist for considerably longer before I give in... I have spent probably hundreds of hours on nappy horses pushing them past the things they nap at and always avoid dismounting with habitual nappers. I'll dismount if I'm fairly certain they are reacting to a genuinely new situation and are actually fearful. If they are fearful, getting off and leading the way is a good way to show them everything's ok. But habitual nappers who just refuse to go past a certain point I just sit on. I'd only dismount if I thought it was dangerous - e.g. if the horse might rear and flip over (in which case it needs more groundwork before it's ridden anyway!). Horses do some generalising but not much so they can learn to only nap when you are on board at a specific spot and that's not going to be helped by dismounting and moving them on... In your case it sounds more like genuine concern (because the puddle is presumably ephemeral!) in which case dismounting may actually have been the right thing, not just "ok".

 

[gunnergundog]

You are assuming that people who say they would have gotten off are lacking in confidence. .

No....I am guessing that they have not set their horse up to succeed by not doing sufficient training/preparation in advance and a true risk/assessment. Yes, that sounds very modern day health and safety, which, trust me, I am not! With a horse I am unsure of though I have been known to drive a route in advance to check out potential issues; also, I have been known to enlist the help of someone on a quad with a lunge whip strategically placed where I think an issue may occur; also, with a horse that had issues going over motorway bridges to have escorts - one either side, two in front and two behind....all confident, trusted jockeys that would maintain the formation in a forward trot regardless.

A number of people have posted that they are confident, but would still get off...... whilst you guys may believe you are confident you are obviously not communicating that confidence to the horse if you can only do it by dismounting and leading. If the horse will follow you when led, why won't it 'follow' your instruction when mounted??

And to address another point that has been brought up.....riding two abreast is in my opinion the sensible thing to do as it creates an 'obstacle' that is of sufficient size to prevent motorists attempting to squeeze past and thereby unnerving the outside horse - at best! And it is no bigger than the numerous peletons that we see increasingly on our roads with cyclists at least three abreast.

And to address yet another point...we frequently ride and lead but endeavour to have a 'solo' leading and rear file; their job is to 'communicate'...to communicate with approaching traffic - requesting and thanking - and to communicate with those doing ride and lead giving advance warning of any potential issues.

It has also been mooted that you shouldn't push an issue with a new horse......to me that is the prime time when rules and boundaries should be set. However, maybe I have more experience in assessing new potential recruits or have just been lucky to-date in not getting anything too untoward for my skills/experience.

Above comments are not targeted at any one individual, but are to address 'themes' that I see re-occurring here or on other threads.