Wrong to insist your horse isn't lazy?

I don't think anyone on the other topic said horses should be lazy if that's what they're like naturally. There's a difference between a lazy horse and a slow horse. If you've got a lazy horse then yes you should try imo to motivate him/her to work, through improving fitness schooling etc. But if you've got a naturally slow horse then you can't dramatically change their way of going. If their natural rhythm is steady then you can't really get them out of that if they are a responsive ride.
 
I'm with the JFTDs of this world :)

I don't like sharp/fizzy horses in the sense of those who spend their time trying to kill you (in the sense of doing nutty things rather than having human motives, of course!).

But I do think horses should be on the aids and working properly, even if their natural inclination might be otherwise. It keeps them working properly, builds up their muscle and fitness, all of which is something I want in my nag. Won't be needed by others, which is fine with me, as long as I get to do what I want with my horse.

He is also a slower, steadier type and I do occasionally get frustrated and ponder getting something more responsive etc. And then I overhorse myself and lose all my confidence. I have found that a lot of it is my riding and, whilst I do have to work with him, it's about working in the right way. We've improved massively with a new instructor and he's working so much better. Still had a tendency to back up/drop off the aids etc and lack impulsion but I've realised I much prefer to work with that than anything much sharper.

And I also appreciate just how safe and reliable he is which means that we get to do all kinds of fun things like hunting, trekking, holidays and clinics. Occasionally I have to remind myself of this when we have our low moments of course !
 
Yes, it is still Oscar, Kallibear. I did need to get after him at first - he was always a reasonably forward enthusiastic hack, but in the school went into plod mode - previous training I suppose, but not what I needed to work on his schooling. We had a few lessons with instructor chasing him with a lunge whip as I held onto a neck strap! He soon got the hang of what was required when asked nicely, and is certainly no longer a plod - unless being my moving sofa as we trundle around on the buckle!
 
Kallibear said:
Following my other post on 'How to make a fat little cob fizzy and forwards':

Do you think it's acceptable for a horse to be lazy and reluctant to work? That's it's just part of their nature and shouldn't be forced?
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No, because it comes down to obedience. I'm not for one minute suggesting that a little podgy hacking pony will react like a TB, but a horse MUST move off the leg when asked with IMPULSION. Impulsion is not speed, but a desire to move forwards.

In fact I think ANY horse that hacks on roads absolutely MUST move from the leg exactly when asked with Impulsion.

My welsh cob is soo laid back he's horizontal but when schooling he is expected to move forward when asked, he can be as lazy as he likes for twenty odd hours a day, as long as he works when asked in the time I want him to!!
 
Apologies in advance for introducing some fluffybunny NH-type stuff into this conversation . . . but I read a wonderful book by Mark Rashid in which he reminded the reader that horses are prey animals. As such, their natural inclination is to conserve energy until they need it to run away from predators . . . i.e., to only move as far and as fast as is appropriate to the situation. This made enormous sense to me.

Yes, Kal has a high percentage of fizzy TB in his breeding and, yes, he is sharp and can be spooky and naughty (witness him bogging off with me out hacking the other day). But in the school his default setting is to actually be behind my leg . . . he isn't "lazy" . . . nor is he "dead to the leg" but unless persuaded otherwise (I use spurs and lots of transitions) he doesn't really see the need to bounce off my leg aids . . . and I would argue that without appropriate schooling, etc., this is the default setting for most horses. We train them to respond to our aids (with varying success) . . . and we supplement that training with feed and gadgets . . . but most wild horses don't spend their days charging about unless they're being chased by something. They move as far and as fast as they need to . . .

By way of an example . . . when I first moved Kal into his new field, one of his fieldmates B kept charging at him to establish dominance/exert his position in the herd. At first Kal responded by cantering away - as far and as fast as he could. Pretty soon, though, he just trotted away - and didn't go as far. Now he just meanders away . . . he does the bare minimum to appease B and conserves his energy . . . and if you saw Kal the last word you'd use to describe him is "lazy."

So, no, I don't think horses are lazy . . . I just think that those who don't necessarily think "forward" haven't yet seen a good enough reason why they should exert that much energy . . . it's more to do with self-preservation.

P
 
I had a big slow safe and steady ID mare. Once she lost weight, increased fitness and learnt to respond to tiny leg aids she was alot more fun to ride. I also used NAF EnerG supplement which really did increase her energy levels. Last year she had several months off work living out at stud. After 5 failed AI attempts I brought her back into work and it was like having a new horse. The break has done her the world of good and she is still, several months later, very responsive, energetic and alot of fun to ride. She now lives out which helps keep her weight down and I'm quite pleased she isn't in foal as I'm really enjoying riding her.
 
JFTD said:
Ahh, I'm a big believer in the idea that a horse should continue at the pace you asked for until you say otherwise, within reason. So you should never need to nag, or insist. That is a schooling matter and can be sorted - and should be sorted, in my opinion.
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This is exactly how I train my horses too and none of them are lazy, they are all ready and willing to work.
 
REading your other thread op and now your response on here I wonder if it's more the language you are using rather than anyone is saying it's immoral to insist your horse is on the aides. In your previous thread you said you wanted your horse to be more fizzy, which I read as being fizzed up and wound up, personally I don't think of fizzy as a positive word, in my head that brings up images of a horse that won't stop jogging, maybe tosses it's head, breaks into canter without being asked, maybe a horse who gets wound up in company and is quite tense. THat's what I would describe as a fizzy horse so of course if you said you had a nice safe horse and you wanted to make it fizzy I'd think you were bonkers! However if what you actually want is a horse that is quick to respond to the leg and doesn't have to be nagged then I would say you're perfectly entitled to insist on that as that's just good schooling.
 
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