WTF is this about?! (Sitting trot and me being annoyed - help!)

[MyDogIsAnIdiot]

If I take my stirrups away I can do sitting trot for ages with no problem - same when bareback.

Give me my stirrups back, however, and I tense up, grip with my knees, my hands come up to my ears and shoot forwards (?? seriously, wtf), I get serious flappy-arms, and I can't sit to the trot for longer than 3 or 4 strides. It's utterly bizarre. Making my stirrups shorter makes it worse, and making them longer (they're already v long) has no effect or I lose them very quickly due to the knee gripping.

It's something I really need to sort out as it's effecting my ability to 'school' our trot-canter transitions. I can ask fine with no stirrups and they're then really good (guess what I spent today doing? ) or do walk-canter with stirrups with no issue. When in canter I do have a wayward right leg that's to do with a hip problem that's being addressed but I can control it - also something that's better with no stirrups. With stirrups for trot-canter I also throw the contact away completely (see flappy arms point) which is leading to unbalancing my horse and running into the transition rather than jumping into it.

How can I fix this? It's seriously getting on my nerves and needs to be addressed before I screw my lovely, forgiving horse up. It's not fair on horse to expect her to figure out what I'm asking when I'm riding so horribly. I'm planning on a few lunge lessons through the winter (1 a week + 1 lesson off the lunge a fortnight) but looking for something I can do to start fixing it at the moment.

 

[Elbie]

Hmm I don't really know if I can offer a solution but I do have a similar problem.

I used to be very pinchy with my seat and knees with toes out. Took a long time to try and release my hip but I struggle when asking for a canter transition still. I tense up and don't relax my hip to allow the canter transition through. Instead I get this horrible fast choppy trot. Not a massive help but all my instructor says to me is "let it go!" Don't try and sit there looking all pretty. If you lose your stirrups or your legs look weird it doesn't matter. The main focus is on going with the movement and relaxing. Eventually the legs will come (although still waiting for that!)

 

[Elbie]

PS - lunge lessons are a good idea. Instructor says that the reason she developed a good seat was because she spent 2 years on the lunge trotting round and round. We generally can't commit to that kind of training

 

[JillA]

It sounds to me as though you are putting your whole weight in the stirrups, instead of just using them to support the front of your foot.
Try this. Ride a couple of circuits of the school without your stirrups, then drop them and make sure the base of the stirrup is no higher than your ankle bone where your leg is after the time without. Slide your foot in no further than the front of the ball of your foot and sit for a while just ensuring the weight is down through your knees and into your heels not the stirrup. Then build through walk keeping the same thought until it feels natural, at which point you can progress to trot.
Bear in mind homeostasis - the body's tendency to revert to what was the former position until the new one becomes a habit, so keep doing the above and concentrating on it until it becomes second nature.

 

[Wishful]

How's your ankle flexion? Can you comfortably flex your ankle in your riding position? Heel lifts (initially required for slightly too long boots) were a revelation for me.

How are you trotting in light seat? Does it help if you go light seat to sitting as similar movement absorption required?

I always found sitting trot easier without stirrups- and am generally as flexible as a steel girder. Light seat helped me to get the feel of absorbing the movement in my ankles and knees while no stirrup work (while circling ankles) helped with the hips. Then putting the two together and I'm OK on most of the RS horses for canter transitions although my first canter transition on a new horse is usually messy until I consciously sit up and breathe beforehand which lengthens my leg and relaxes the knee grip.

 

[Fides]

It could be that the stirrup bars on the saddle are too far forwards and it is stopping you keeping your leg in the correct place. Could you get someone to photograph you stirruped and stirrup less and compare where you leg is positioned?

 

[MyDogIsAnIdiot]

Hmm I don't really know if I can offer a solution but I do have a similar problem.

I used to be very pinchy with my seat and knees with toes out. Took a long time to try and release my hip but I struggle when asking for a canter transition still. I tense up and don't relax my hip to allow the canter transition through. Instead I get this horrible fast choppy trot. Not a massive help but all my instructor says to me is "let it go!" Don't try and sit there looking all pretty. If you lose your stirrups or your legs look weird it doesn't matter. The main focus is on going with the movement and relaxing. Eventually the legs will come (although still waiting for that!)

The fast choppy trot is exactly what I'm getting. Think I'm going to be waiting a while for my legs to figure out what to do .

It sounds to me as though you are putting your whole weight in the stirrups, instead of just using them to support the front of your foot.
Try this. Ride a couple of circuits of the school without your stirrups, then drop them and make sure the base of the stirrup is no higher than your ankle bone where your leg is after the time without. Slide your foot in no further than the front of the ball of your foot and sit for a while just ensuring the weight is down through your knees and into your heels not the stirrup. Then build through walk keeping the same thought until it feels natural, at which point you can progress to trot.
Bear in mind homeostasis - the body's tendency to revert to what was the former position until the new one becomes a habit, so keep doing the above and concentrating on it until it becomes second nature.

I've noticed this lately. I feel like I'm putting a lot of weight on the stirrups, a lot more than I used to in my old saddle, almost bracing against them. I only seem to do this out hacking though which is a problem as I'm currently school-less! I'll give that a go today .

How's your ankle flexion? Can you comfortably flex your ankle in your riding position? Heel lifts (initially required for slightly too long boots) were a revelation for me.

How are you trotting in light seat? Does it help if you go light seat to sitting as similar movement absorption required?

I always found sitting trot easier without stirrups- and am generally as flexible as a steel girder. Light seat helped me to get the feel of absorbing the movement in my ankles and knees while no stirrup work (while circling ankles) helped with the hips. Then putting the two together and I'm OK on most of the RS horses for canter transitions although my first canter transition on a new horse is usually messy until I consciously sit up and breathe beforehand which lengthens my leg and relaxes the knee grip.

My ankle flexion is ok - I do heel lifts on the stairs for 10 mins every day and have for years. Trotting in a light seat I'm ok for a while and then my lower will shoot forwards. I'm addressing this and trying to do 5-10minutes per pace per ride in a light seat without sitting down or balancing with my hands. Doesn't help that my horse decides to use this as a chance to teleport sideways .

Lots to think about, thanks!

It could be that the stirrup bars on the saddle are too far forwards and it is stopping you keeping your leg in the correct place. Could you get someone to photograph you stirruped and stirrup less and compare where you leg is positioned?

I was thinking this as I'm currently riding in a jumping saddle, but it was happening in my last VSD and dressage saddles too. I know that when I drop my stirrups I go straight into the correct 'classical' position regardless of saddle. I'll try and get OH to come and play photographer today.

Thanks for all the advice, some things to think about and try out! .

 

[Horsemad12]

If you are riding in a jumping saddle I think you have answered your own question!

 

[smja]

How fixed is your ankle when you ride? Try riding along, without stirrups, moving your toes up and down with each stride, then round in circles. If you're holding the ankle flexed (i.e. to artificially keep heels down all the time), it transfers to holding the knee and hip still as well. It can also make the lower leg swing forwards, seemingly of its own accord.

As demonstrated by my first ride in my jumping saddle, if the saddle is very forward cut these issues are hugely emphasised - concentrate on keeping the ankle under the hips, rather than letting it creep forwards. Someone standing ont he floor and pointing out when that's happening can be useful here

 

[MyDogIsAnIdiot]

If you are riding in a jumping saddle I think you have answered your own question!

I'm saving my pennies for a dressage saddle but have to work with what I've got at the moment. Would shortening my stirrups help with the bars being so far forward? I like to ride v long (bottom of stirrup is 1-2 inches below my ankle bone) so might try bringing them up a bit.

How fixed is your ankle when you ride? Try riding along, without stirrups, moving your toes up and down with each stride, then round in circles. If you're holding the ankle flexed (i.e. to artificially keep heels down all the time), it transfers to holding the knee and hip still as well. It can also make the lower leg swing forwards, seemingly of its own accord.

As demonstrated by my first ride in my jumping saddle, if the saddle is very forward cut these issues are hugely emphasised - concentrate on keeping the ankle under the hips, rather than letting it creep forwards. Someone standing ont he floor and pointing out when that's happening can be useful here

I try to not fix ankle with heels rammed down as far as they'd go - I'm really trying just lightly resting my feet in the stirrups and only having them down ever-so-slightly. OH has been recruited to play instructor this week so I've already had one schooling session of having 'heels', 'shoulders', and 'look up!' shouted at me .


As a bit of an update, I rode in the field today so I could actually focus on myself without worrying about horse bogging off. Sitting trot with stirrups has improved to the point where I can do up to 10 strides and then lose it but this is still an improvement . Also really focused on keeping my upper body 'open' and not throwing away the contact when asking for canter and....got the most amazing trot-canter trans ever. The canter was lovely and very 'up' but still moving forwards. I only had to sit for two strides and horse was off as soon as I asked - no running into it or anything. I'm not sure who was more surprised, me or horse! We've got a lesson booked for next week so I'm looking forward to seeing if my instructor sees an improvement in us.

Thanks for the advice everyone, it seems to be working! .

 

[Pigeon]

Apparently when you sit the trot, your hips move in the same way that they would when you are jogging. That was a bit of a lightbulb moment for me, I think before I was trying to keep my hips too still!

 

[Elbie]

Apparently when you sit the trot, your hips move in the same way that they would when you are jogging. That was a bit of a lightbulb moment for me, I think before I was trying to keep my hips too still!

This.

Until I had lessons with my new instructor (about 2 years ago now!) I never even considered that there are 2 sides to the horse which move independently. I just always used to move myself as a block. I knew that I should feel my pelvis being moved up by the trot but used to try and move my pelvis as a whole instead of independently moving the right and left side.

 

[Auslander]

Bit of a cheat, which works well in a saddle with bars too far forward. Just be aware that there is an increased risk of the leather slipping off the stirrup bar (and please don't judge me for the filthiness of that saddle - it's a spare one!)

 

[MyDogIsAnIdiot]

Apparently when you sit the trot, your hips move in the same way that they would when you are jogging. That was a bit of a lightbulb moment for me, I think before I was trying to keep my hips too still!

I've never thought about it like that before! I've been trying to absorb the movement through my lower back which, now I think about it, is why horse rushes when I sit to the trot - lots of movement in my seat. Schooling tonight is going to be fun, looking forward to trying this .

This.

Until I had lessons with my new instructor (about 2 years ago now!) I never even considered that there are 2 sides to the horse which move independently. I just always used to move myself as a block. I knew that I should feel my pelvis being moved up by the trot but used to try and move my pelvis as a whole instead of independently moving the right and left side.

Thank you, this might be a bit of a ta-dah moment!

Bit of a cheat, which works well in a saddle with bars too far forward. Just be aware that there is an increased risk of the leather slipping off the stirrup bar (and please don't judge me for the filthiness of that saddle - it's a spare one!)

I'll give this a go too! Never know, might be a post from me later saying I've cracked it .

I wouldn't worry about the state of the saddle, I've been considering buying a new bridle to save me cleaning my current one.

 

[Mike007]

It could be that the stirrup bars on the saddle are too far forwards and it is stopping you keeping your leg in the correct place. Could you get someone to photograph you stirruped and stirrup less and compare where you leg is positioned?

This!. It does amuse and also bug the hell out of me! Watching riders warming up for the dressage phase eventing at the lower levels. They sit perfectly at sitting trot yet the moment they rise to the trot it all goes to rat ****. Why have so many of them never figured it out? It is the saddle .!or to be more precise ,the position of the stirrup bar!

 

[Piglit]

I'm having exactly the same issue. Sitting trot is my nemesis and it's really depressing me. I'm better if I just forget about the stirrups and let them flap about or if I ride with no stirrups at all. Try put it all together and its a joke! I also fall apart with lateral work. I also ride in a GP and do feel the bars have a lot to do with it. Am hunting for a dressage saddle. I tried loads at the Nationals this weekend and it made such a big difference.

 

[Tnavas]

It sounds to me as though you are putting your whole weight in the stirrups, instead of just using them to support the front of your foot.

Agree with the above, try thinking about relaxing the weight rather than forcing your heels down

In an enclosed area

Shut your eyes and while in walk focus on how the hindquarters move your hips around, move on into a soft trot, still focusing on how the horse is moving your hips, allow your hips to move with the horse. If you lose the feel, go back to walk and start again. Gradually make the length of time in trot longer and as the time gets longer make the trot more active.

With your eyes shut you are able to focus more without the physical distractions. It takes time and will work if you are patient and remain relaxed.

 

[old hand]

sounds like it is the position of the stirrup bars on the saddle to me, can you borrow another that fits to try? have hip problems too and have had to change my saddle. this happened to me when the bar was too far forward. It makes you sit on your seat bones and your feet go forwards. Or try moving the stirrups back on the bar on your saddle. Don't really see it can be abything else if you are ok on the same saddle without stirrups.

 

[TGM]

Another solution to the stirrup bar problem is to have a saddler make you a small leather band which you can slide onto the stirrup bar before you put the stirrup leather on, this means the stirrup leather is positioned further back and is a very cheap, unobtrusive solution.

 

[Mike007]

Martingale stops are as good but cheaper,also avoid thin narrow stirrup leathers.