WTF is wrong with people?

[Clodagh]

Never had dogs without dew claws until these 2, but given the trauma with Bear, I'm quite happy. He is a stoic dog, but his dew claws have meant he has been in pain and had 2 operations for the one dew claw. I'd prefer my dogs not to be in the vets if at all possible!

I know you didn’t get to choose whether it was done. It does just seem a bit excessive to cut off a useful piece of kit just in case, especially now they understand where they are in the structure and support system in the legs.

 

[Birker2020]

My sister and I are both agreed that anyone wanting an ear cropped dog should have to have their ears cropped too.

Yeah and I'd kindly like to offer to do it for them free of charge without anaesthetic.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Yeah and I'd kindly like to offer to do it for them free of charge without anaesthetic

and I would help you.

 

[MurphysMinder]

One of Bear’s fore dew claws (he has a rear one, fairly rare, I think?) kept snapping/needed chopping and we took him to the vet. Then it grew straight out and got damaged so we chopped it and it’s never been a problem since, but he’s definitely suffered quite a lot of pain with it each time it got damage. I’m quite glad the pups had their removed, although there is some scabbing and occasional fussing over them even now.

I didn't think front dew claws were removed routinely in the nest , what was the breeders reasoning for doing so ?

 

[Birker2020]

Our beagle which we had from a foot hunt pack in 2000 had her dew claws removed and ears tattooed as standard. She was only a few months old and was the runt of the litter, and our friend who was Kennelman at the time said if my partner didn't have her she would have been shot as she was too short at the shoulder to run with the pack. So he took her on. We had her 14 years, the most beautiful eyes and long eyelashes you've ever seen.

I assume that dew claw removal/tattooing is standard practice with hounds but certainly not with the vast majority of other dogs.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I didn't think front dew claws were removed routinely in the nest , what was the breeders reasoning for doing so ?

Seems to be standard with working line springers, along with docking. I’d say the majority of adverts mention this for working lines.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Oh ok . I know docking is allowed if going to a working home , but I know a lot of working line cockers that have their front dew claws .

 

[MurphysMinder]

Our beagle which we had from a foot hunt pack in 2000 had her dew claws removed and ears tattooed as standard. She was only a few months old and was the runt of the litter, and our friend who was Kennelman at the time said if my partner didn't have her she would have been shot as she was too short at the shoulder to run with the pack. So he took her on. We had her 14 years, the most beautiful eyes and long eyelashes you've ever seen.

I assume that dew claw removal/tattooing is standard practice with hounds but certainly not with the vast majority of other dogs.

View attachment 97873

Tattooing was the main form of id for most breeding/show/working GSDs before microchip . Far better in my view and the last litter I bred were both chipped and tattooed. I agree that front dew claw removal isn’t standard practice , and don’t think it has been for many years .

 

[CorvusCorax]

As MM, all our dogs were ear tatooed before microchips became the preferred option for ID. I didn't actually like them as someone who had to check IDs at events, as they were often hard to read in older dogs.

My mother wrote a letter to the canine press decrying routine dewclaw removal when she was a teenager!!

 

[misst]

Birker you girl was beautiful!

 

[Clodagh]

Our beagles are ear tattooed but still have their dew claws.

 

[GSD Woman]

I didn't think front dew claws were removed routinely in the nest , what was the breeders reasoning for doing so ?

With the gundog breeds it is supposed that it will prevent snags and the ripping off of the dewclaws. I don't know why the terriers and Dobermans have them removed.
Someone would probably tell me "tradition."

 

[Books'n'dogs]

With the gundog breeds it is supposed that it will prevent snags and the ripping off of the dewclaws. I don't know why the terriers and Dobermans have them removed.
Someone would probably tell me "tradition."

Or "preserving the breed standard", which was the excuse I recently saw used by a Doberman breeder when challenged on the ethics of cropping and docking.?

 

[SilverLinings]

Or "preserving the breed standard", which was the exc
use I recently saw used by a Doberman breeder when challenged on the ethics of cropping and docking.?

How can it be a 'breed standard' when they aren't born like that?! If you're having to mutilate them/perform cosmetic surgery to have them meet the breed standard then you're* breeding from the wrong dogs. Not that I am advocating that humans start breeding dogs with stumpy tails and cropped-looking ears, just agreeing that it was a moronic statement.

Aside from that, the idea of a 'breed standard' is entirely about what is aesthetically pleasing to the human (even if some of the traits originated from the need to perform a certain job), so how can any form of surgery be justified for that? We don't allow children to have cosmetic surgery because they can't 'consent', so why do we allow it in dogs?

*Not you BnD, the generic 'you'.

 

[Books'n'dogs]

How can it be a 'breed standard' when they aren't born like that?! If you're having to mutilate them/perform cosmetic surgery to have them meet the breed standard then you're* breeding from the wrong dogs. Not that I am advocating that humans start breeding dogs with stumpy tails and cropped-looking ears, just agreeing that it was a moronic statement.

Aside from that, the idea of a 'breed standard' is entirely about what is aesthetically pleasing to the human (even if some of the traits originated from the need to perform a certain job), so how can any form of surgery be justified for that? We don't allow children to have cosmetic surgery because they can't 'consent', so why do we allow it in dogs?

*Not you BnD, the generic 'you'.

I agree 100% and the fact that cropping, docking and the removal of dew claws is so widespread in the USA is making my search for my next dog rather difficult because I refuse to support a breeder who does any of the above.

 

[SilverLinings]

I agree 100% and the fact that cropping, docking and the removal of dew claws is so widespread in the USA is making my search for my next dog rather difficult because I refuse to support a breeder who does any of the above.

I admire you for making the effort to avoid them as cropping/docking is so prevalent where you are. I have mostly had spaniels, and as I live in the countryside in the UK a large number of advertised litters are docked, but it isn't massively difficult to find puppies that aren't (and none are ear-cropped of course). I hope you find a lovely dog before too long

 

[GSD Woman]

I agree 100% and the fact that cropping, docking and the removal of dew claws is so widespread in the USA is making my search for my next dog rather difficult because I refuse to support a breeder who does any of the above.

BnD, what breeds are you thinking of? Several friends have different breeds that are natural. there are Boxers, Dobes, and Aussies.

Silver Linings, you were much more eloquent tha."n I could have been about what a load of hoo haa breeders are spewing about "breed standards

 

[SilverLinings]

Silver Linings, you were much more eloquent tha."n I could have been about what a load of hoo haa breeders are spewing about "breed standards

It required some thinking to write it in a polite way! I think it comes down to the fact that some humans are stupid and selfish, and will spout any old cr@p to justify their poor decisions. At least on here we can see that there are also lots of kind and thoughtful people who put the dogs' needs first, and try to make the world a better place for them

 

[Books'n'dogs]

BnD, what breeds are you thinking of? Several friends have different breeds that are natural. there are Boxers, Dobes, and Aussies.

Silver Linings, you were much more eloquent tha."n I could have been about what a load of hoo haa breeders are spewing about "breed standards

I haven't settled 100% on a breed yet but it will probably be something in the range of 15-25#, I would love another GSD (which aren't hard to find in a natural state) but my life is dictating I need to go with something smaller; so far I've looked at various terrier breeds, Shetland Sheepdogs and Pembroke Welsh Corgis. I can find undocked corgis, and obviously Shelties aren't docked or cropped, but they all have their dew claws removed and I won't have another dog who has had that done after having two dogs that suffered from botched dew claw removal.

I admire you for making the effort to avoid them as cropping/docking is so prevalent where you are. I have mostly had spaniels, and as I live in the countryside in the UK a large number of advertised litters are docked, but it isn't massively difficult to find puppies that aren't (and none are ear-cropped of course). I hope you find a lovely dog before too long

Thank you, SilverLinings.?

 

[GSD Woman]

I have sent an email to a friend who is a Pem person. I'll see what I can find out on natural Pems.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I know this is an old thread now but I read this today: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...ire-animal-rights-activists-cropped-ears.html

Good on him, if more big names started speaking out against it perhaps it would fall out of fashion faster.

 

[GSD Woman]

I'm glad he was educated on the ear cropping but I felt that some comments were a little harsh. Obviously he didn't realize what he had done. People can be educated without being shamed.