WWYD - 4yo dressage horse, sell or...?

tobiano1984

tobiano1984

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 February 2012
Messages
1,017
Visit site
Having a bit of a 'mare with one of my horses - so thought I'd ask opinions on here from unbiased strangers! So...bought a 3yo last year, usually I specialise more in eventer/PC allrounder types to produce (am not a dealer, just have my own yard and the space so tend to back and sell one or two a year), this one is an out and out dressage horse with top german bloodlines (but bred by a friend down the road). Aim was to break him in, compete him lightly as a 4yo and sell around now. Best laid plans and all that! He is an absolute sweetheart, a little simple but very sweet and was totally straightforward to break in - not a buck or hump in him and within days you could just hop on him off a chair and off you go.

1st mistake - I thought - hang on, this guy is so easy and so pretty and so well bred, I'll get him out to some shows and he'll be worth loads!
2nd mistake - not believing in my own capabilities, I had one and then another professional rider to school him a couple of times a week

End result - had the osteopath out last week who is a good friend and therefore tells it straight to me - who said he can't cope with the work and needs a break. Part of the reason I had her out was because I felt something wasn't right, but who was I to question a professional when I am very much an amateur dressage rider. He just isn't strong enough and hasn't developed the top line and muscle to cope with the work - and the osteo said he isn't working properly from behind and just trying to maintain a 'correct' shape is not doing him any good. He looks about a year behind what you'd expect - when I got him as a just turned 3yo he looked like a 2yo, now he looks like a 3yo! I'm kicking myself because I knew it and just didn't feel confident enough to say it. He had started to resist the contact and monkey about, falling in, sticking his head in the air etc, so the solution I was told was to lunge him in side reins until he gives in. Which I didn't do....just knew he had a reason as he's not a difficult horse at all.

So now I don't know what to do - and not-completely-horsey-OH isn't really helping, as he only sees the bottom line and doesn't understand that it's not as simple as taking him to a few shows and slapping a massive price tag on him.

My options as I see it are - give him some time over winter just hacking (walking) and strengthening exercises as per osteo recommendation, build him up and then get him schooling properly in the spring and sold hopefully for a decent amount once he's filled out and ready to go. This of course carries the risk of all horses in that something could go wrong in those months, and of course the expense and hassle of having a 3rd horse to look after. Or sell him now but not as a ready-to-compete horse, just one that is hacking and riding nicely and needs a steady winter before picking it up again in the spring - and this would involve taking a financial hit from what I had hoped to sell him for as a ready to go horse (but obviously save a winter of expenses). And would be a bit upsetting as he is so lovely and has bags of potential, I sort of want to see him through but I have to be sensible about it from a financial point of view!

So if you've made it through my ramblings, let me know your thoughts and what you'd do. I've pretty much decided not to involve anyone else now, apart from the girl who competes my eventer who will hack him out - I don't hack out youngsters having had a horrendous accident on the road, I wouldn't do them any good at all! I would probably just have lessons on him with my trainer who is of the classical persuasion rather than the 'crank the head in so it looks pretty' sort.
 
In answer to your question, in the situation you describe, I'd give the horse winter off as advised and whatever else he needed in terms of vet, osteo, etc, then reassess come next springtime. But I wouldn't push a weak young horse to that extent in the first place. And by my definition of it, you are dealing - backing and selling on one or two horses each year, with the aim of turning a profit. Hope this helps.
 
Kaimar said:
In answer to your question, in the situation you describe, I'd give the horse winter off as advised and whatever else he needed in terms of vet, osteo, etc, then reassess come next springtime. But I wouldn't push a weak young horse to that extent in the first place. And by my definition of it, you are dealing - backing and selling on one or two horses each year, with the aim of turning a profit. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I have to say I didn't think 2 schooling sessions a week would be pushing it - and I didn't ride him for months so was hard to tell (for me anyway). And by definition for tax/income purposes dealing is selling 5 or more horses in a financial year, apparently, so that's why I don't consider myself a dealer. I often have them for at least a year before selling on so they're not coming in and out very quickly!
 
In your shoes I'd:
1) Dump the pro riders (which I think you've done?)
2) Tell the OH to butt out :p
3) Turn away until spring

Could you maybe find somewhere he could go and live out on youngstock livery for the winter?
 
DirectorFury said:
In your shoes I'd:
1) Dump the pro riders (which I think you've done?)
2) Tell the OH to butt out :p
3) Turn away until spring

Could you maybe find somewhere he could go and live out on youngstock livery for the winter?
Click to expand...

Thanks! Yes I have dumped the pro riders :-) and will happily tell OH to butt out! Turn away til Spring - I can't really do on my yard, they have to come in over winter which would probably make him difficult if he's not working. I have looked in the past for youngstock livery for another horse but there's nothing round here unless it's super fancy and costs an arm and a leg! He also does pretty poorly living out in winter (which he did before I got him and was quite underweight). My best effort would be to keep him at mine and just hack him out for a half an hour a couple of times a week to keep him ticking over...
 
I suppose it really depends on the numbers involved, it will not cost too much to keep over winter if you are not paying for a pro to school him but will cut into the potential profit, you need to do the sums to see which option makes most sense, if you are buying to sell then you do need to factor in one or two going wrong in some way and that one will lose money while another makes enough to cover that loss at least in part.
You may struggle to sell him as he is, the financial hit from doing so will only be on your "profit" which is never guaranteed so should not really count, to me it would come down to how much I liked the horse as much as the money involved, it is why I rarely made a very good profit on my projects as I cannot think of the bottom line with too many of them so if he were mine I would keep him, enjoy bringing him on properly and hope the numbers balance next year but if they didn't I would be happy to live with it, at the end of the day they are animals not property or stocks and shares my main pleasure is seeing them go on well prepared for a new life not the cash I get although that helps!!
 
I'd do what the osteopath says,
You don't know if the next person to take him on will expect the same or more from him and break him.

Find a field local and send him away for the winter to mature,

Hope all works out
 
be positive said:
I suppose it really depends on the numbers involved, it will not cost too much to keep over winter if you are not paying for a pro to school him but will cut into the potential profit, you need to do the sums to see which option makes most sense, if you are buying to sell then you do need to factor in one or two going wrong in some way and that one will lose money while another makes enough to cover that loss at least in part.
You may struggle to sell him as he is, the financial hit from doing so will only be on your "profit" which is never guaranteed so should not really count, to me it would come down to how much I liked the horse as much as the money involved, it is why I rarely made a very good profit on my projects as I cannot think of the bottom line with too many of them so if he were mine I would keep him, enjoy bringing him on properly and hope the numbers balance next year but if they didn't I would be happy to live with it, at the end of the day they are animals not property or stocks and shares my main pleasure is seeing them go on well prepared for a new life not the cash I get although that helps!!
Click to expand...

This is why I don't do it for a living - I can't let go of them unless I'm 100% happy with them and the new home! Hence I still have one cob 3 years later because he came from a hideous place and is so happy with us that I can't bear to put him through another home change.

Thank you - wise words. On the one hand I would like to keep him over winter and enjoy producing him properly on my own, on the other hand I much prefer my cobs and having come off one too many warmbloods/TBs I don't think I enjoy getting on them these days quite as much! I've just lost the amazing girl who helped ride a few days a week (got a full time job) so it's all down to me now...
 
I'd keep him, he sounds like a dude! Sensible answer though is I would just hack a few times a week as he won't be able to build muscle if he's not in work, gentle walk hacking will really help him and you can do some transitions with him; most youngsters are just hacked in the beginning :)
 
I would get a vets assessment , I know it will cost money but it might save money in the long run .
I would turn away and remove his shoes and in the spring I would restart him as though he had had KS .
I would also consider putting on Myoplast when he comes back to work .
Always follow your gut I have learnt this the hard way as well .
Hopefully it's a blip you have stopped in time and with rest and time you will get back on track .
 
Another one to say give him time to get stronger. Can you not do the odd lunging session with a bungee to get him stretching the back and going long and low? Also do what I do, lead him out off another horse, he'll be using his muscles doing that but without the weight of a rider.
 
I think you need to get the vet out to exclude a physical problem. For example what you say shout EPSM to me, although I am preoccupied with that at the moment!

Realistically you won't be able to sell him now, nothing was selling all summer long the market won't pick up in the autumn for something that needs the winter off. Make sure there is no underlying cause for his difficulties and then develop a fattening programme that works for him physically and mentally so you can sell him from a better place in the spring.
 
Leave him the winter, let him grow and get stronger.

This is the kind of horse that in a year or two, someone will be posting on here saying - whats wrong with him, why isn't he working properly, or, he's lame and going to be a write off.

Far too much pressure to get them going, ge them working and competing. Let them grow up slowly and get strong enough. Take the time to let them mature, and you'll have a lovely horse who will last for years and years.

We all know they don't stop growing until they are 6/7 years old, so let him grow into himself and be the horse he really can be.
 
I'm putting my hand up for keeping him and doing light work over the winter to build up those muscles. I'm personally of the opinion that some light work to keep the spine moving a bit has a bigger remedial benefit than giving him the winter off completely. With it only being light work, he'll still have plenty of rest and recovery time.

Something else to consider - I'm assuming finding the right home is very important. I have a hunch you might find it a bit hard to find the right home to bring him on with the care and experience he needs. And I have hunch that at the kind of price you'd have to offer him for, you'd be dealing with a fair few prospective owners who are well-meaning but over-estimate their abilities to do this kind of work with a horse. Best case scenario is you'd waste a lot of your time with the wrong people looking at him; worst case scenario is he goes to the wrong home and ends up being the kind of horse Brightstar described above.
 
tobiano1984 said:
On the one hand I would like to keep him over winter and enjoy producing him properly on my own, on the other hand I much prefer my cobs and having come off one too many warmbloods/TBs I don't think I enjoy getting on them these days quite as much! I've just lost the amazing girl who helped ride a few days a week (got a full time job) so it's all down to me now...
Click to expand...

But from what you've said he's a darling? My 5yo WB feels like the safest horse in the world, and has done since I first sat on him a month after he was backed as a 3yo. He has always been excellent on the roads, and has given much older sensible cobs who should have known better leads past scary things many times. They're not all loons! You might both get a lot of pleasure out of a winter of hacking and fun. Sounds like he'd appreciate it. But as others have said, might be worth checking there's no veterinary reason he's not coping with the work your pros thought he should have been able to.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top