WWYD? Concerned about Welfare.

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ApolloStorm

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Hi all. Here is some background. I part loan a 10 year old TB gelding who's past is uncertain. All we know is that he was broke at 1 1/2 and jumping by 2. He isn't supposed to have been raced, but we all suspect that he was raced.He was also rapped when jumping and I've slooooowly been working through his fear of poles.
However I have a few concerns about his owner, obviously she knows him better than me but there's some things which make me doubt her.

1. After he was clipped she bought him new rugs. ALL at least whole size too small, he is 6'9 she bought him 6'6 and 6'0 rugs. When they are on I can fit a hand or two from his bum to the start of the end of the rug and apparently they 'fit perfectly'.

2. We had a nutritionist out. She called him too thin. Yes, he needs top line and he is lean but I'm working on it. The owner called him OBESE, she said ' this horse isn't bloody thin, it's obese' The owner has cut back is small feed anyway. He used to get 2 scoops of calmer chaff, with a scoop of Low-cal balancer with carrots in. Now he is supposed to get 1 scoop chaff 1/2 low-cal and no carrots!

3. He has rubbish feet, He's a TB. He pulled his fronts off a couple month ago and he went barefoot for a while, his feet steadily hardened and he was fine being worked barefoot. Next thing I know he has shoes burnt onto his feet, and I'm getting charged £20 for half shoes, when this wasn't in the contract. I don't mind paying shoes I'd just rather be involved in the decision.

3. She is terrified to ride him. I mean terrified, she will do anything not to ride him. Today it was someone at the yard's birthday. We were playing pony games. It wasn't my day so she was riding him. She was so so so tense, and he got a little excited and started to back up a little and she started squealing and yelling ' he's a psycho horse get me off ahh!' which made him worse. Bear in mind she is well into her 20s

4. Which brings me to the very very worst of them all I have heard horror stories about her lashing him all over with a whip when he is naughty. Except she doesn't do it when she is on, she does it when she is back in the stable. After the pony games, I was concerned for this I went to check on him, and I caught a glimpse of her raising her hand to him, she looked really angry. But she stopped cos I walked into the barn and then just patted him. Obviously I can't say or do anything until I actually see it. But it makes me sick thinking of it.

Anyway I'm just really unsure of what to do. I'd buy him in a heartbeat, I just don't have the money right now. I can't stop the loan or else no-one would look after him. Plus I've fallen in love with him. Any advice would be appreciated.

Milkyways and Tea for finishing reading :)
 
If you have real welfare concerns, talk to YO. If you cannot, call BHS/WHW.
Failing that if you are not willing to buy it, there is not a lot you can do.
 
If he's not your horse and you're not paying the money you don't get to make decisions about his keep. however if there is a welfare issue and it can be proven (e.g video, substantial evidence etc.) then you need to call the relevant body who deals with it.
 
Another unsure about the burning on of shoes..shoeing hot will not hurt him, unless of course they were branding him with hot shoes which I'm sure you didn't mean. As for the rest of it,if there are any concerns I suggest you write each & every incident down & keep a log which you can present to the welfare organisations as mentioned above..have you any photos of him? TBs do have a tendancy to look a little more 'run up light' for example in the weather we've had (cold wet summer) than say natives or warm bloods,which hold condition far more easily,esp if he's not been ridden correctly/enough and fed the correct amounts.does he have hay/haylage adlib & how often is he turned out?

Also, may I ask how old you are?:)
 
I don't think the poster is actually proposing to report the owner to a welfare organisation, she's just very concerned about the way the horse is being treated by the owner. Apollostorm am I right? I'd be concerned too, they don't sound like an ideal match in any way shape or form. Poor horse, he must be very confused. Also I'm guessing...it's only a guess...that the owner isn't happy that you get better results from the horse than she does, hence her frustration and aggresive reaction.

Would she consider selling him to you? Could you offer her a down payment and then terms? Christmas is coming, have you got relatives and friends who might be happy to substitute prezzies for cash? Just a thought!
 
I sort of understand where you're coming from, the owner does sound lacking in knowledge/ experience but from what you've said this doesn't sound like a welfare case? Buying rugs too small is annoying, but it's not horrendous neglect.

Perhaps she doesn't enjoy riding the horse, which is why she has him on a share. Again, not a case of cruelty.

The only part of this that sounds like a welfare case to me is the whipping, but it seems you have no evidence of this? Does he ever have marks? Is he scared of crops etc? Just sounds a bit like speculation unless you have proof.
 
First of all I will assume you genuinely have his best interests at heart - BUT - it is her horse. Unless he is seriously badly looked after you need to either tred very gently or walk away.

You sound very dismissive of his owner. Have you discussed your concerns with her? Carrots will not help his nutrition or his poor quality feet - so he won't miss them. His diet may or may not be appropriate but unless he conditions scores really badly it is not up to you to change it. If the YO and other people are truely concerned too then perhaps a gentle word from them might help.

Have you actually seen her beat him - or is this just nasty yard talk?
If she is scared of him - well actually that is her business too, there is no law saying she cannot be scared or not want to ride.

To be honest I read this as sour grapes - you love him, don't like her or her treatment of him, cannot afford to buy him (assuming she would sell him to you) and seem to despise her riding......

If she read this would she be surprised or have you been honest with her?
If you were my sharer I think I would be uncomfortable.

Sorry if I have read this wrong.
 
casinosolo said:
I sort of understand where you're coming from, the owner does sound lacking in knowledge/ experience but from what you've said this doesn't sound like a welfare case? Buying rugs too small is annoying, but it's not horrendous neglect.

Perhaps she doesn't enjoy riding the horse, which is why she has him on a share. Again, not a case of cruelty.

The only part of this that sounds like a welfare case to me is the whipping, but it seems you have no evidence of this? Does he ever have marks? Is he scared of crops etc? Just sounds a bit like speculation unless you have proof.
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I dont think the OP was saying it was 'horrendous neglect' or cruelty. In fact she didnt even mention about reporting it to a welfare organisation.- just mentioned she was concerned about the horses welfare which is fair enough- I would be too.
 
hollieeb said:
I dont think the OP was saying it was 'horrendous neglect' or cruelty. In fact she didnt even mention about reporting it to a welfare organisation.- just mentioned she was concerned about the horses welfare which is fair enough- I would be too.
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Fair enough, but if it's not bad enough to be a welfare case, and it's not her horse then there's not much she can do other than speak to the owner.

I just think the post sounds a bit odd, that's all.
 
It sounds like a typical horsey person story of bitterness and rivalry to me!

The amount of calls like this that get made to welfare organisations due to disputes between owners/loaners is unbelievable, and very rarely involves any real welfare issue.

Sorry OP if my cynicism has made me judge incorrectly, but even if it has, I really don't read anything concerning to any major degree that would warrant a welfare check. Unless you have any evidence of the 'beatings', or unless the horse is skin and bone or heading that way.
 
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It sounds like a typical horsey person story of bitterness and rivalry to me!

^^^ I am glad it is not just me that read the OP this way Moomin1
 
Most of us who have had horses on loan or share have disagreed with the owner at some point, but there you go, you want to do things your way then buy your own.

The feed thing, well if he drops weight she'll soon see, and thoroughbreds are supposed to look lighter than other types. The rug thing, not ideal but if she bought them...

I think its a bit harsh you're criticising her for being nervous of him, although her reaction does sound silly. You can ride him better, pretty sure all sharers think that deep down ;-)

I take it your half payment for shoes is just fronts?

The whipping is a concern but as others have said, try to form your own opinion based on fact.

I loaned a horse off a girl who was public enemy number one on her yard, she was just a bit clueless and lacked social skills. She was too heavy handed with the horse and that did concern me, but I admit most of that concern came out of hearsay and a couple of whipping occasions where she lost her cool.
 
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