wwyd dilemma

[Adopter]

OP you have been very honest about your situation.

Last week BHS in an article discussed on this forumn, advised people to give their old unrideable equines a dignified end, and not pass on the pro blem to someone else.

25 is a very good age, many horses do not make it to such an age, and there is nothing for you to feel guilty about, you have cared for her, given her a good life, now the good times have past, let her go peacefully and move on with your life.

Remember the good times and know that she is free of pain.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Former YO was an idiot then. Took a freebie sweetitch pony, with the worst skin condition I've ever come across and treated it. On her yard the sweetitch subsequently became a very manageable condition. The pony turned out to be an absolute little cracker which surpassed the abilities of the daughter's very expensive show pony.

There is nothing wrong in having a sick horse PTS. No humane owner allows a animal to suffer,
The question here is- is it acceptable to put a horse that is not suffering, down simply because the owner doesn't want it ?

Like any older (or young horse) horse, tomorrow it may be sick or suffering. today it is not.

 

[honetpot]

''There was an elderly mare with cushings at my yard until recently, who the owner had lost interest in to the extent that she had two sharers. However I was so impressed with them because when she developed laminitis and the vet was pessimistic, they all pulled together to care for her round the clock, the owner paid the large vet's bills and then she was rehomed with a charity. It is possible. None of them were at all wealthy but they cared for the horse (and for two of them, it wasn't even their horse) which recovered and leads a happy life at the charity.''

This is a prime example of why I will not give money to animal charities that stockpile elderly chronically sick animals and the people that pass on their responsibilities to them are not finding a good home for them they are passing the buck. I feel sickened when people who have little disposable income are guilt tripped into handing over cash for their care. When you have livestock you have dead stock, that's the responsibility of animal ownership.

''But since you have lost interest, you probably won't miss her anyway, and as she is an old unwanted horse, she is meant to be grateful for dying and no-one will miss her.''

First of all this is a childish thing to say, (it reminds me of having a spate with my Mum when I was 12), and you are confusing loss of interest with not caring for her welfare. I have lost interest in looking after my children, one has left home and the other is on the runway but I do care what happens to them.
I would also quite happily guide someone in having their animal PTS if it was right for the animal or their circumstances in person, I find it sad that people have to wait until an animal is distress before they will let go. I have a 29 year old pony and if I ever go down the field and find him unable to get up or in distress I would be truly ashamed.

 

[Mithras]

Deleted - too disgusted to reply.

 

[Goldenstar]

It's nor bravado in my case I do put all my horses to sleep only one my first pony has ever died ( it's assumed he had a heart attack ) I saw him in the morning he was ful of hell and at lunchtime he was dead .
Every single one I have PTS (except the every few I sold all of whom where under eight .)
If you commit to keeping them and don't pass issues on I can't see any way round it.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I find it sad that people have to wait until an animal is distress before they will let go. I have a 29 year old pony and if I ever go down the field and find him unable to get up or in distress I would be truly ashamed.

We are not talking about having a suffering horse PTS though.

How much value does a horse's life have ? Is it acceptable to end a horse's life just because the owner doesn't want the responsibility ?

Why do some posters make excuses and invent scenerio's to sugar coat the reality?

Basically, it seems some HHO posters think its fine to have any horse PTS simply because they want to.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Deleted - too disgusted to reply.

I'm feeling much the same. Disgust is about right.

 

[Goldenstar]

We are not talking about having a suffering horse PTS though.

How much value does a horse's life have ? Is it acceptable to end a horse's life just because the owner doesn't want the responsibility ?

Why do some posters make excuses and invent scenerio's to sugar coat the reality?

Basically, it seems some HHO posters think its fine to have any horse PTS simply because they want to.

That's it , yes I do think it's my desision when I put my horse down not sure who else's desision it could be .

 

[dogatemysalad]

That's it , yes I do think it's my desision when I put my horse down not sure who else's desision it could be .

That is not the question here though. Do you put them down because you are bored with them then ?

 

[Goldenstar]

That is not the question here though. Do you put them down because you are bored with them then ?

No I don't .
But I think there's more to OP's dilemma than boredom .
But I will confess to putting down a perfectly healthly horse in November because I chose not to manage his behaviour anymore .
I know he was healthly because I had spent a fair bit trying to find a reason for his outbursts I decided enough was enough and it was only a question of time before he hurt someone ,he could not be turned out with other horses as well, I will also admitt that it was a relief after I did it .

 

[Copperpot]

I always think healthy includes mind as well as body. GS your horse obviously had a healthy body but maybe not mind, therefore he wasn't entirely healthy or happy I imagine.

Personally and this is just my opinion, no I wouldn't pts a horse cos I couldn't ride it or was bored with it. But that's me. However I also wouldn't pass it on to someone else. But I would have difficulty in my mind justifying pts an animal that still had quality of life.

 

[Cherryade]

The horse in question may be healthy and happy in the present situation, if sold on who knows where it could end up. Buted up passed from dealer to dealer, health problems mis-managed etc so the question is pts now whilst happy and healthy or take a risk andd sell on where it could encounter neglect and suffer for years until the next kind person makes the right decision

 

[Parisexx]

I am not "bored" with the mare. I do not enjoy horses anymore and want to do tje right thing. This horse is preventing me from living my life. She has awful sweet itch in the summer needing 24/7 rambo hoody and electric fence all round or else will and has rub herself till she bleeds. The arthritis has been confirmed by a vet. I have looked after her and given her my best but now I need and want to move on in my life. I cannot live at home forever just to keep an elderly horse, how is it disgusting now I have to look at other options? ? Off to see to the "poor" mare now who will have another day in the field and tonight will be bk in to a lovely shavings bed. The horse is not hard done by believe me.

 

[babymare]

parisexx. Please please ring BHS and speak to them. Get some support and advice. Please be assured if you do devide to PTS there are many on here that will offer support to (myself inc) as they did to me when i was in smliar position. Please PM if you want. Just a hug to say i understand totally x x

 

[luckyoldme]

Hi op, this is just such a diverse forum with such a huge range of views. There are plenty of people on here who have working horses who would nt entertain the idea of keeping a horse till its 24. Plenty of working horses who are pts the day they can t do their job anymore.
You look after your horse well and when you decide to call it a day thats your business.

 

[Parisexx]

I think I will ring the bhs as well. I have diverse views on here and only have one or two horsie friends and they are my age x

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Personally and this is just my opinion, no I wouldn't pts a horse cos I couldn't ride it or was bored with it. But that's me. However I also wouldn't pass it on to someone else. But I would have difficulty in my mind justifying pts an animal that still had quality of life.

I am answering this post because the above is a perfectly reasonable argument, however it is a personal viewpoint by someone who is in a position [financial and or lifestyle] to keep a horse properly.
The OP's horse has health issues which will not improve. Now at the moment she could manage to continue with costs, and a lot of people are saying "don't p-t-s a horse just because it is no longer of any use" but what if the OP suddenly had no income to pay for the horse,she would "have" to p-t-s ........ there would be no difference from the mare's point of view.
Not sure if I have made my point, but it seems obvious to me [but not to some others], that if the OP found this an easy decision, she would not be posting on here.

 

[Wagtail]

I would say that it is a financial crisis to be living off your parents mid twenties due to a horse. But that's because I care more about my Mother than I do a horse. Call me weird and all that...

Actually, most mothers hate it when their children leave home, no matter how old they are. It doesn't sound like the mother wants her daughter to leave at all. It is the daughter who wants to leave. So I really don't think how much you love your mother comes into it.

Of course the OP wants to leave home. That is absolutely natural. But I find all this comparing of love for an animal and love for her mother rather OTT and irrelevant (yours is not the only post highlighting this). Her mother probably dreads her going! I speak from experience.

 

[cptrayes]

There was an elderly mare with cushings at my yard until recently, who the owner had lost interest in to the extent that she had two sharers. However I was so impressed with them because when she developed laminitis and the vet was pessimistic, they all pulled together to care for her round the clock, the owner paid the large vet's bills and then she was rehomed with a charity. It is possible. None of them were at all wealthy but they cared for the horse (and for two of them, it wasn't even their horse) which recovered and leads a happy life at the charity.

I personally think what this poor old horse has been put through is disgusting.

So the answer is OP, you have a choice between keeping the horse at DIY livery near wherever you move to, which is what tens of thousands of horse owners do, you try to rehome her to a charity or as a companion, you pay for her to go onto full livery, or you put her to sleep. I also know of several people who keep retired horses on full livery while they work full time or buy second horses.

That is not her range of options. She cannot afford rent and livery. She can only afford livery if she continues to live, and make her partner live, with her mother and father.

As for defining a horse with sweet itch as a companion, ignoring all the buddy's mummy risks, who in their right minds would take it?

And what is the point of rehoming to a charity? It simply means that they will not have room for some other horse, which will then be put down, so no life will have been saved.


I admire your attitude to your own horses. I am currently deciding how long to keep my oldest horse, eleven this year, because if he's with me much longer I feel I will owe him a home for life. But that home for life would not include an endless retirement, far less allowing his life to dictate where and with whom I live.

 

[Patterdale]

In real life, as opposed to the internet, I know so many people who own elderly and/or unsound horses that they can't ride any more but who still put a lot of effort into caring for them. Yes, it disrupts your life, but if you buy an elderly horse (appreciate you didn't know she was 19 when you got her but you must have known she was no spring chicken) that's inevitable.
.

I agree, I don't find RL anywhere near as trigger happy as HHO.

it's not often something on a forum sickens me, but some of the trendy attitudes on here have.

The phrase 'trendy attitudes' is spot on.

I am not "bored" with the mare. I do not enjoy horses anymore and want to do tje right thing.

This is where I wish people would not beat around the bush and try and 'sugarcoat' everything.
You are not trying to do 'the right thing' (Which would be to find a way to take responsibility for the mare and keep her until her quality of life is genuinely compromised). You are trying to do the easy thing (PTS to save yourself this hassle).

Is that wrong? That's not for me to say, that's down to your own conscience.

But a lot of the phrases on this thread really annoy me, with people clearly just trying to justify to themselves.
'Its the kindest thing' - no, the kindest thing would be to keep her as long as she's happy and care for her.
'You're securing her future' - no, you're deleting her future so you don't have to worry about it.
'Its kinder than passing her on' - but who says you have to pass her on? Put some effort into finding some cheaper retirement livery and do without a few takeaways and new shoes.
'You're so brave' - no, brave would be to solve your problems head on, not simply eliminate them.

OP, if you want to have the mare PTS then that's up to you. Im not against it to prevent suffering.
But I just WISH that the people on this forum were capable of calling a spade a spade, and not coming out with the above crap to make the fact that you want to PTS your horse because you're fed up of it, a bit more palatable.

 

[touchstone]

I dreaded my children leaving home, but actually I would have dreaded them being tied to working to keep an unwanted horse more. A few years ago a friend was rehoming a pony that I was very attached to, and I would have loved to taken but finances wouldn't permit. My daughter wanted to take him for me and make all the payments and look after him, even though she isn't 'horsy' at all. I wouldn't let her as I knew it would affect her future long term. Ideally the OP wouldn't have got a horse in the first place that she couldn't look after long term, but as it has happened then it has to be dealt with in a way that doesn't affect the welfare of the horse. I love my children at home, but I want them to be independent adults too.

It is all very well wanting to 'save' the individual, but when there are horses abandoned left right and centre and neglect soaring then a dose of reality isn't a bad thing. I know of someone who recently had two yearling colts dumped on their land, they made an attempt at rehoming, which was unsucessful and ended having them pts. Given the comparison, I think pts an older horse with medical issues isn't the worst thing that can happen. The bottom line is that horses are sadly disposable in society today, through overbreeding and rising costs there are hundreds that are neglected, and until the issues of too many horses for too few homes is resolved then pts is not a wrong choice for welfare reasons.

 

[BBH]

I agree, I don't find RL anywhere near as trigger happy as HHO.



The phrase 'trendy attitudes' is spot on.



This is where I wish people would not beat around the bush and try and 'sugarcoat' everything.
You are not trying to do 'the right thing' (Which would be to find a way to take responsibility for the mare and keep her until her quality of life is genuinely compromised). You are trying to do the easy thing (PTS to save yourself this hassle).

Is that wrong? That's not for me to say, that's down to your own conscience.

But a lot of the phrases on this thread really annoy me, with people clearly just trying to justify to themselves.
'Its the kindest thing' - no, the kindest thing would be to keep her as long as she's happy and care for her.
'You're securing her future' - no, you're deleting her future so you don't have to worry about it.
'Its kinder than passing her on' - but who says you have to pass her on? Put some effort into finding some cheaper retirement livery and do without a few takeaways and new shoes.
'You're so brave' - no, brave would be to solve your problems head on, not simply eliminate them.

OP, if you want to have the mare PTS then that's up to you. Im not against it to prevent suffering.
But I just WISH that the people on this forum were capable of calling a spade a spade, and not coming out with the above crap to make the fact that you want to PTS your horse because you're fed up of it, a bit more palatable.

Totally agree.

 

[biggingerpony]

I agree, I don't find RL anywhere near as trigger happy as HHO.



The phrase 'trendy attitudes' is spot on.



This is where I wish people would not beat around the bush and try and 'sugarcoat' everything.
You are not trying to do 'the right thing' (Which would be to find a way to take responsibility for the mare and keep her until her quality of life is genuinely compromised). You are trying to do the easy thing (PTS to save yourself this hassle).

Is that wrong? That's not for me to say, that's down to your own conscience.

But a lot of the phrases on this thread really annoy me, with people clearly just trying to justify to themselves.
'Its the kindest thing' - no, the kindest thing would be to keep her as long as she's happy and care for her.
'You're securing her future' - no, you're deleting her future so you don't have to worry about it.
'Its kinder than passing her on' - but who says you have to pass her on? Put some effort into finding some cheaper retirement livery and do without a few takeaways and new shoes.
'You're so brave' - no, brave would be to solve your problems head on, not simply eliminate them.

OP, if you want to have the mare PTS then that's up to you. Im not against it to prevent suffering.
But I just WISH that the people on this forum were capable of calling a spade a spade, and not coming out with the above crap to make the fact that you want to PTS your horse because you're fed up of it, a bit more palatable.

I completely agree, while I can see the reasons to put to sleep to prevent suffering. I could not face putting a horse to sleep for selfish reasons. I own one 22 yr old mare who is on retirement livery, now on paper it would be much easier to put her to sleep (I am a 22yr old constantly skint final year uni student) but I just could not live with myself for putting her to sleep. So I forgo nights out, new clothes etc for the reason that my lovely mare is living out her days happily. I owe her everything and I'm sure she will tell me when the time has come and I won't just do it when it is convenient for me!

But that is just my opinion, I hate the thought of anything suffering and if you think that is the case then PTS may be the best option.

 

[Cortez]

It would be interesting, purely from an academic curiosity, to know the backgrounds of those who are pro putting the elderly, arthritic, sweet itch afflicted, unwanted mare down, and those who are con.

Here's a guess: Pro = people who have had multiple horses over a long time period (i.e. more than 10 years). Con = people who have never actually yet been in the situation.

P.S. I prefer putting down BEFORE there is suffering myself.

 

[lilacjackie]

It would be interesting, purely from an academic curiosity, to know the backgrounds of those who are pro putting the elderly, arthritic, sweet itch afflicted, unwanted mare down, and those who are con.

Here's a guess: Pro = people who have had multiple horses over a long time period (i.e. more than 10 years). Con = people who have never actually yet been in the situation.

P.S. I prefer putting down BEFORE there is suffering myself.

This

 

[Patterdale]

It would be interesting, purely from an academic curiosity, to know the backgrounds of those who are pro putting the elderly, arthritic, sweet itch afflicted, unwanted mare down, and those who are con.

Here's a guess: Pro = people who have had multiple horses over a long time period (i.e. more than 10 years). Con = people who have never actually yet been in the situation.

P.S. I prefer putting down BEFORE there is suffering myself.

I'm a freelance trainer/rider and keep most of my own personal horses until the end. I've had (and have clients who've had) many elderly horses so I am not coming at this from a whimsical view.

Only last summer I had a 16 year old PTS because of cushings and various related laminitis/condition problems. But that truly was to prevent suffering - not because I'd 'gone off him.'

 

[Zebedee]

This is really a very simple problem to solve.
Will all those in the 'a horse is for life camp' please form an orderly queue so that the OP can select which one of you gets to take it on.

OP this is not a dilemma. Have it PTS and move on with your life. (I would say more but many already have so no point repeating them)
Good luck.

 

[Goldenstar]

Hi op, this is just such a diverse forum with such a huge range of views. There are plenty of people on here who have working horses who would nt entertain the idea of keeping a horse till its 24. Plenty of working horses who are pts the day they can t do their job anymore.
You look after your horse well and when you decide to call it a day thats your business.

Like this ,
While I enjoy these airings of views I basically happy in myself with what my approach is .
I do know that that if I felt I had got to the point where I had to PTS one of my pampered retired horses because it was suffering I would be disgusted with my self I would like to think I would never let that happen ( acute disease and injury aside of course ) .
I know other people take different views and as now thankfully I no longer have to engage with views of others in the real world unless I chose to.
I have lived abroad in a society where they don't believe they should PTS animals although the inconstancy of an attiude that makes it ok to eat meat but not ok to PTS say a racehorse i was something i struggled to understand the whole time I was there , that hardened my view considerably as did my time as a welfare officer .

 

[Parisexx]

I give up, I cnt win either way

 

[Zebedee]

I give up, I cnt win either way

You don't need the permission of an online community to have your mare PTS regardless of circumstances. If that's your decision then get on with it.
(FWIW I don't have a problem with the PTS option, and if money is tight get the hunt rather than the vet)