WWYD? Dilemma.

Elvis

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*Warning-super long, I'm incapable of being concise it appears*

As some may already know, I'm putting Elvis up for sale. He's been with an agent for just under a week, I chose this agent as she has a fair reputation and makes an honest assessment and is quick with the selling process. She does not do long term schooling (max 2 weeks before advertised).

She has assessed Elvis, and the conclusion is that he is a project, he's got attitude in the school and won't hack alone. She's valued him at £2000 so we'd get £1800 after commission. My mum paid £3500 for him 18 months ago, I feel I owe it to her to return her initial outlay. (I have no savings). She has also kindly said the money we get from Elvis can go towards another horse if I wish. I feel awful, my mum supports my riding, and just wants me to enjoy my hobby, instead I chose a horse that has caused me to stop enjoying my hobby and now is worth very little. I've effectively thrown away £2000 of my mums money, don't have a horse I can enjoy and won't be able to afford the right one anytime soon, and couldn't ask my mum to add more to the fund as she's done enough and has no spare cash.

So the dilemma, do I tell this lady to go ahead and sell Elvis, but accept that I'll only be able to give my mum about £1500, or do I pursue my other option and use an eventer locally to me who does schooling livery, give Elvis 4-6 weeks to see if he can clean up his act and then try to sell him. Last summer he was a well behaved, talented horse heading for a hopefully successful career in eventing. But there is no guarantee he will return to this. Is it worth risking throwing good money after bad?

My instructors would advise to cut my losses and sell now. But I feel I owe it to my mum to try. WWYD?

To anyone who doesn't know already, I have done every medical check possible, my vet has been out numerous times, as has the saddler, dentist and physio. All agree this is behavioural. The difference of opinion comes regarding whether this is just a teenage phase that needs to be worked through-that a better rider could help, or if this is just him now.

Also I'm not some money obsessed owner who doesn't care about her horse, Elvis would never go to a bad home over a good one for money. I just know he has the potential and the behaviour in him to be a decent horse, it's just whether I put the money and effort into trying to rekindle that or just call it a day.
 
If she can sell him, and you will get the £1800, do it. You may be throwing good money after bad if you send him away for schooling livery. Even if he is at the schooling livery for 8 weeks, at £100pw (guess) - you still have to sell him at the end, and gawd only knows you could spend that £800 on schooling and still cant sell him for more than £1500.

Take the sales livery for sure, then it will be one less drama/dilemma for you to worry about. I talk from personal experience - I can pm you the story if you like.

If your mum will allow you to keep the £1800, then you may find an absolute little cracker for that, and really enjoy riding again.
 
It sounds as though you have had two professionals tell you that you're not really going to get what you hoped you would for him. So you need to have a chat with your mum about the way forward. Yes its sad to lose money, but che sara - you need to be safe and happy, which is why your mum gave you the money in the first place. You could spend a lot more having him schooled etc and still not get your money back. I think I would agree with your instructor and cut your losses. Perhaps ask the dealer to try selling him for £350 more than they said or something?
 
I have no advice I'm afraid....but if it makes you feel better my parents shelled out over £10,000 on one of mine and then it broke 11 months later and it hasn't worked properly for 2 years 3 months. It's unsalable (ever) and currently the prospects of ever doing anything with her are 50/50!

This isn't advice....but id send to someone to school for a bit as I think he can be worked through.
 
If she can sell him, and you will get the £1800, do it. You may be throwing good money after bad if you send him away for schooling livery. Even if he is at the schooling livery for 8 weeks, at £100pw (guess) - you still have to sell him at the end, and gawd only knows you could spend that £800 on schooling and still cant sell him for more than £1500.

Take the sales livery for sure, then it will be one less drama/dilemma for you to worry about. I talk from personal experience - I can pm you the story if you like.

If your mum will allow you to keep the £1800, then you may find an absolute little cracker for that, and really enjoy riding again.

If you could PM me your story I'd appreciate it. :-)
 
If she can sell him, and you will get the £1800, do it. You may be throwing good money after bad if you send him away for schooling livery. Even if he is at the schooling livery for 8 weeks, at £100pw (guess) - you still have to sell him at the end, and gawd only knows you could spend that £800 on schooling and still cant sell him for more than £1500.

Take the sales livery for sure, then it will be one less drama/dilemma for you to worry about. I talk from personal experience - I can pm you the story if you like.

If your mum will allow you to keep the £1800, then you may find an absolute little cracker for that, and really enjoy riding again.

I would largely agree with this the market being as it is if you can get 1800 back for him you could easily pick up a cracking pony or horse for that money and if the market picks up it will once again have the value your mum paid for the first one should you sell
 
It sounds as though you have had two professionals tell you that you're not really going to get what you hoped you would for him. So you need to have a chat with your mum about the way forward. Yes its sad to lose money, but che sara - you need to be safe and happy, which is why your mum gave you the money in the first place. You could spend a lot more having him schooled etc and still not get your money back. I think I would agree with your instructor and cut your losses. Perhaps ask the dealer to try selling him for £350 more than they said or something?

I've asked her to keep working him, maybe try and improve him in the school, do a bit of jumping (his strength) and try for £2500 if she can. I'll speak to her mid-week to see what she thinks then.
 
I have no advice I'm afraid....but if it makes you feel better my parents shelled out over £10,000 on one of mine and then it broke 11 months later and it hasn't worked properly for 2 years 3 months. It's unsalable (ever) and currently the prospects of ever doing anything with her are 50/50!

This isn't advice....but id send to someone to school for a bit as I think he can be worked through.

Thank you, I know it's the way it is with horses. I just feel so awfully guilty, we aren't hard up, but my mum works extremely hard to support mine and my sisters riding, because she loves watching us enjoy riding. And to thank her for all that I no longer enjoy riding (except on others horses) and I've lost her at least £2000. What thanks is that :(

I think I may ask the event rider to come and trial elvis and hope he'll honestly tell me whether it's worth a go at schooling or call it a day.
 
Can you get the event rider to assess him and see what their opinion of length of time schooling and potential sale price?


I can understand the quick way.
Less money.but quick sale and you know at least get a chunk of the money.

But the eventer may know what buttons to push to get the best out of him and having the name associated with him could push up price.
 
Thank you, I know it's the way it is with horses. I just feel so awfully guilty, we aren't hard up, but my mum works extremely hard to support mine and my sisters riding, because she loves watching us enjoy riding. And to thank her for all that I no longer enjoy riding (except on others horses) and I've lost her at least £2000. What thanks is that :(

I think I may ask the event rider to come and trial elvis and hope he'll honestly tell me whether it's worth a go at schooling or call it a day.

I don't know all the history here but did she buy Elvis as an investment opportunity for you/her? Cos if not, it's not really a case of losing money. Get what you can for him and spend it on something more straightforward that you can enjoy and get your confidence back on. I don't think value will really come into it - surely she'll be happy that you're happy? She sounds lovely!
 
I would largely agree with this the market being as it is if you can get 1800 back for him you could easily pick up a cracking pony or horse for that money and if the market picks up it will once again have the value your mum paid for the first one should you sell

Thank you, I just can't imagine getting what I need for £1800.

It has to be over 16hh, a saint to hack in all situations (as I'll accompany my sister on naughty pony) ideally hunted. A brave jumper, ideally with some experience. 5 or older. No TB blood unless very small amount. My mum won't buy an older horse as the pony is older and will retire soon (he will never go anywhere) and she wants a horse my sister and I could share in the future.
 
I don't know all the history here but did she buy Elvis as an investment opportunity for you/her? Cos if not, it's not really a case of losing money. Get what you can for him and spend it on something more straightforward that you can enjoy and get your confidence back on. I don't think value will really come into it - surely she'll be happy that you're happy? She sounds lovely!

No she bought him because I liked him and we were suited (then) and she liked him too. But I'd always said if she needed/wanted to sell him he should return what she spent, and others agreed. And there have been times previously he could have sold for £4000-£6000, and she knows that and never asked me to. She is lovely, the most fantastic mum, completely non-horsey, but knows how much my sister and I enjoy it so is happy to forgo the luxury holidays she loves so we can have horses. Do you see why I feel so guilty?
 
My dad forked out for my horse and 5 years later i sold him for less than quarter the price. I felt bad about it but at the end of the day i was not enjoying him and his new owner does, and im happier than i was with him. The money is gone, and it won't ever come back. In your case, you can work with him but unless you make a huge turn around and get him going well you will probably not get that kind of money for him again. If all you want is a decent hacking horse who does a bit of shcooling then you will definitely get it for 1800 but it won't be flashy breeding and might be a little rough looking and end of the day the price of the horse doesn't dictate the quality. Mine was a rescue and cost £150 to adopt i believe.
 
No she bought him because I liked him and we were suited (then) and she liked him too. But I'd always said if she needed/wanted to sell him he should return what she spent, and others agreed. And there have been times previously he could have sold for £4000-£6000, and she knows that and never asked me to. She is lovely, the most fantastic mum, completely non-horsey, but knows how much my sister and I enjoy it so is happy to forgo the luxury holidays she loves so we can have horses. Do you see why I feel so guilty?

I do. It's a horrid situation :( Ultimately though (and I know it's easier said than done!) there's not much point focusing on how much he could have been sold for in the past. That opportunity has been and gone

If you can afford to pay for the eventer to have him for a while in the hopes of achieving a higher price, then that would seem the most sensible option. If they come to the same conclusion as the other person then so be it - you'll have your answer as to what he's definitely worth now. Seems like there's a chance they might be able to help with him though so surely that's worth exploring?
 
Have you asked your mum what she wants to do ?

Say - " Mum, we can sell him now, hopefully, for £1800 - and with that money I will find one more suited I promise, or...
We can send him to xxx eventer, it will cost x per week, but you know, speculate to accumulate and all - and we might get £2500 back, but they wont sell him for us, so when he comes back we still have to sell him, what do you want me to do?"

You never know, she may have already decided what is best ;)
 
The trouble with horses is they are only worth what someone is willing to pay. If you look at the money you have *lost* divide that up by the time you have had him and think what you would have spent if you had decided to play golf or a musical instrument etc. What other people spend on the gym or membership or a custom car etc is huge.
I bet your mum would rather you were happy. I certainly would with my kids . You cant take money with you so make the most of each day .
There are average horses being sold for very low mney at the moment and perhaps a loan with a view to buy ? . Good luck with whatever you decide .
 
The eventer would sell him too, so Elvis would be on sales/schooling livery. So I wouldn't have to worry about selling him myself. The eventer is actually slightly cheaper than the agent (only £20/week less though) but takes 15% instead of 10% on sale. I think the reason I'm considering the eventer is because that's what Elvis was bred for and would be his most likely career.

I'm going to speak to my mum tomorrow. She has ultimately said it's my decision and she trusts me. But when I mention he might only go for £1500 I can see she looks disappointed.
 
Hi,

I just looked at a video of Elvis jumping less than a year ago. I have not followed all of your threads, but if there are no major health concerns I would send him to the eventer as he does seem to be quite talented and a willing jumper. I think you would get more money, but that is not the primary reason..... If you were to invest in some correct event type schooling for what seems to be an event type horse I think you would maximise the chances of Elvis getting the most appropriate home, where perhaps in a few years time you would be able to see him out competing and think "I owned him!".
The other option may well work, but if he were already helped over that hump of misunderstanding and misbehaviour, then he would more likely find a suitable home.
IMO selling as a "project horse" is often more of a lottery for the horse as to where he ends up.
The eventer seems to be offering a good deal, cheaper per week and more commission at the end, so at least they will have the schooling to achieve a reasonable sum in a reasonable time at the forefront of their mind. Plus, as you say, the deal is the same otherwise, with Elvis not needing to come home.
 
See what you can get. Then look for what you want. If you removed your 'no TBs' prejudice, you could get everything you wanted for £1500 easily. I did, ten years ago, and when looking recently for a friend, could have done so again, many times over. TBs can be nutty, but many of them are very sweet, loyal, safe horses who will turn a hoof to whatever you want. Obviously those are the ones that are a complete flop on the racetrack!!!
 
Hi OP. You sound a lovely daughter to look at things from your Mum's point of view. As a Mum, and as someone who has lost money on 3 different horses that it turned out I couldnt ride.... I would say - it is irrelevant to your Mum what you get back for Elvis as long as you can use that to get a lovely horse that you and your sister will be able to ride. I'd have thought that £1800 should do that. If not, can you get a part time job and save up, or even get one on loan?

Also I am trying to sell a horse, fewer issues it seems than Elvis, I paid £5000 for him and couldnt sell him this winter for £2000 despite being on sales livery. I am contemplating gifting him to a friend! So I would say take the £1800 if you can because in this market there is no guarantee of selling at all.

Do hope it all works out for you OP. And your Mum is obviously the best kind and just wants you and your sister to be happy and safe and have fun. For Mums, thats as good a feeling as riding is to you! :)
 
If it were me it would come down to where I was 'at' with him. If it was a case of me KNOWING I would NEVER have the confidence to ride and do what he was originally bought to do on him, I'd cut my losses and sell (although looking at the figures I'd go with the eventer, £20/wk less and specialised training sounds worth it for an extra 5% cut on a bigger price? Especially as someone upthread said he looks talented jumping.)

If I thought I could ride him again if the issues were ironed out, I'd put the money into that if he's still a young horse, as the loss on the price would as you say price me out of finding what I want - I think you'd be lucky to buy a large, accomplished, saintly horse in it's prime for £1800 or so...not impossible! But not really likely.
 
The eventer would sell him too, so Elvis would be on sales/schooling livery. So I wouldn't have to worry about selling him myself. The eventer is actually slightly cheaper than the agent (only £20/week less though) but takes 15% instead of 10% on sale. I think the reason I'm considering the eventer is because that's what Elvis was bred for and would be his most likely career.

I'm going to speak to my mum tomorrow. She has ultimately said it's my decision and she trusts me. But when I mention he might only go for £1500 I can see she looks disappointed.

I think what you need to do OP is really sit down and write out all the costs - to the worst extreme for both.

You may get more money by sending him to the event rider for 6 weeks but once you take out say £100 thats £600 less (preuming you get £2500) so you would only be getting £100 more than if to go to the other lady. Plus you say the eventer has higher commission costs so you would likely get the same or less.

So like I say, sit down with your mum and really work out the costs, and dont be stingy work it out using the max budget so to say that you would be willing on spend on schooling, this will then prepare you for worst case senario.

Hope all works out for you ok though OP.

Oh and P.S. you will be able to find what you are looking for for £1800 its a buyers market so dont be too worried about it :)
 
Personally I would cut your loses now because in 8 weeks you could still be in the same situation and more money gone. Just one bit off food for thought, I was told that my old horse was behavioral and she needed riding through it ended up with me in a and e with really bad concussion. Sought a 2nd opinion and in turn a 3rd opinion and eventually we found out that she had a compressed vertebra in her neck causing her bad behavior. Not saying this is the case with you horse at all but thought it was worth a mention.
 
That's horses for you. Win some and you lose some. Let the horse sell. Buy yourself something nice in the spring. Quit beating yourself up, your mum will understand! Talk to her, you will tonnes better if you let her know how your feeling.
 
If it makes you feel any better I sold a horse I paid £4500 for £800!!! Fortunately I have a very understanding husband, that like your mum, would rather I had a horse that I enjoy and felt safe on.

If I was in your shoes I would go with first option and try and get a quick sale, so that you can move on.

It is a buyers market and there is no harm in looking at horses £2000 plus and seeing if they are open to negotiation.

Good luck!
 
try not to feel guilty, things like this happen, due to behaviors or injury, all the time. a lot of horses go down in value, not up. my friends parents bought her a possible eventer, for about £5000, 6 months later she was lame, diagnosed with navicular and kissing spine= £0, went to blood bank

to be really negative... what is during 6 weeks with the eventer he injures himself and then cant be sold until recovered, so even more costs of livery? i would sell asap.

also, future plans- in this market you can get a lot for £1,500. why have you said no TB? my boy is an ex-racer and is a donkey, safe for novices... i would not rule TB out, especially as they often are at bargain prices.
 
I've ruled TB's out as Elvis is 3/4 TB, and he initially was a complete dope, super safe, and I was a TB convert, it's taken 18months but he's now far too sharp for me, and as much as the TB in him might not be to blame, I've become cautious about them now.

Thank you everyone for the advice, it means a lot. I sat down with my mum this morning, explained everything. She's decided she'd like to try the event rider as she's worried that selling him as a project might not find the right home, especially as the agent isn't even 100% sure she could get near £2000 for him- and that she doesn't think he'll be a quick sell.

I've spoken to the eventer and he sounds really lovely, very understanding, and honest. He's even going to pick Elvis up for me, plus he gets turnout with this place- something he currently doesn't have which I don't think is helping.

I've suggested to my mum we put a time limit on this, as otherwise it could go on forever. This could be a stupid route to take but I understand my mum's thinking behind it. This guy specialises in buying and selling eventers. This is what elvis was bred for and what he has been trained for.

Thank you again, everything has been made much easier by everyone being so lovely, including both the agent and eventer I've dealt with.
 
I am sure you are making a good decision, doing right by Elvis, and giving yourself a chance to make some of the money back too.
I hope that in the future you see Elvis competing with pride. If you visit him at the training yard I hope you get pleasure from that too. Maybe you could even have some lessons on him there when he is settled. No necessarily to have him back, just so you can see how he has changed and learn from that experience.
I did not know you had no turnout, makes me think even more that you are likely to have a good outcome from this, for all of you.

Let us know how it goes!
 
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