WWYD - getting paid to ride

[MarniL]

I've tried to figure this out on my own and have got virtually nowhere so I'm hoping someone can offer their opinion. (This will probably be a long post, sorry in advance).

I've been riding/sharing two horses for going on 2-3 years now and while I am so grateful to be riding them and don't want to give them up for anything I'm getting to the age where I really should be getting a job so that I can start supporting myself (I'm 17). I finally worked myself up to asking one of the owners if she would considering paying me and she reacted quite positively. We were able to come up with an idea of what might be suitable for both of us but so far nothing else has been solidified and the plan has not being put in action. I don't want her to think I'm pestering her but this uncertainty is not helping my anxiety.

I've also been trying to think of a way to approach the second owner - this is where it gets tricky. I've recently been told that I'm the only one who is able to ride her horse (she has no time, daughter is busy at school etc.) and to please do as much as I can. Fine, that suits me, I love working with her horse. But then how can I ask her about payment? This has turned into a loan-type situation, seeing as I'm the only one riding, so if anything I should be paying her! I can't very well expect one owner to pay me and the other not, especially when I'm riding one horse more than the other.

Both of these shares are friendly verbal agreements so nothing is set in stone. This is all so confusing and I don't know how to move forward with any of it so some suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm really sorry if I've not explained it properly.

 

[Arizahn]

How about sitting down with the owners and telling them that you feel that you need to start earning your keep etc, so you are looking into riding for payment? And then ask them if they would be willing to provide you with references or to recommend you to other people I'm not sure that asking for payment from they themselves would be appropriate, since it is more of a sharer/loan set up. But perhaps they may feel that it is fair.

Remember whatever you decide, be very honest with yourself re how good a rider you are etc, and also what qualifications you have that may be relatable to working with horses.

Good luck!

 

[Wagtail]

I don't actually think it's appropriate to be honest. I would be looking at other forms of employment. I would think you were being really cheeky if you were loaning a horse of mine and then suddenly asked for payment. I would just advertise for someone else. Sorry but you need honest answers here.

 

[be positive]

I don't actually think it's appropriate to be honest. I would be looking at other forms of employment. I would think you were being really cheeky if you were loaning a horse of mine and then suddenly asked for payment. I would just advertise for someone else. Sorry but you need honest answers here.

I have a girl that comes and helps me exercise, she is now at uni so can only manage holidays unfortunately, I don't ask for payment as it helps me out, she gets a few lessons and the opportunity to compete sometimes, if she asked for money I agree with wagtail that I would find it very cheeky, she is not a professional rider although now very sensible and capable, the only time I would pay her is if she came in to cover for me with stable duties if I had to be away.

I think you need to be realistic, you are still only 17 so are not yet in a position where you can expect to be charging for exercising a horse that you are riding for your own pleasure, maybe try and find paid stable work at weekends and holidays, most yards could do with extra help and it could lead to more riding that would be paid.

 

[southerncomfort]

I don't actually think it's appropriate to be honest. I would be looking at other forms of employment. I would think you were being really cheeky if you were loaning a horse of mine and then suddenly asked for payment. I would just advertise for someone else. Sorry but you need honest answers here.

I think I agree with this to be honest. There is nothing wrong with advertising as a freelance rider but the agreement you have with the owners of your current horses is a share/loan situation which is very different and as you say, normally it is you who would normally be required to make a financial contribution.

 

[Capriole]

I think Wagtail nailed it. Sorry OP.

 

[PolarSkye]

Honestly, I think this is a tough one . . . you've kind of set a precedent by riding their horses for nothing for 2 plus years . . . so it's hard for you to now ask for money. What are the rest of the arrangements? Do the owners pay for all aspects of their horses' care? Do they pay for lessons for you? Do the horses compete and, if so, who pays the entry fees? Do you do yard work as well as riding?

I find it difficult to ride my tricky boy due to injury so for the past two years have had a lovely jockey who schooled him to a high standard and competed him . . . however, I pay for all of his upkeep, I pay for all (regular) lessons and clinics (including some with Paul Tapner, Dan Jocelyn and Piggy French) and all entry fees. She paid for lorry diesel.

It worked for us because she had a decent horse to ride with minimal expenses and I had a decent jockey who brought my horse on in leaps and bounds. If I had had to pay her, I wouldn't have been able to pay for lessons/clinics/entry fees.

Now that she has moved on (has started a new job), Pops has a new jockey - same arrangement. Although both riders are professionals who charge other people to ride their horses, they are/were both happy to ride Kal for free because of the other "perks" . . .

. . . you need to figure out what's in this for you . . . build a plan that works for you financially (or otherwise - it could be that you're getting great experience with quality horses that you might not otherwise have) and sit down with the owners and talk it over.

You sound lovely . . . and, tbh, it sounds as though the owners feel they are onto a good thing . . . but if you need to make a living and are competent enough to be paid for the service you provide (or at least receive perks in lieu) then you need to state your case. Of course the other side of the argument is that you could get a job elsewhere and ride the horses in your spare time . . .

P

 

[Lolo]

I don't actually think it's appropriate to be honest. I would be looking at other forms of employment. I would think you were being really cheeky if you were loaning a horse of mine and then suddenly asked for payment. I would just advertise for someone else. Sorry but you need honest answers here.

This. I appreciate where you're coming from, but unless this horse is a nightmare then you'd be lucky to be paid and I'm impressed the other owner has said yes.

In terms of getting paid to ride, unless you're really good (and I mean really decent, not just competent) and have something to offer the owners in return for the payment that they won't get from another keen teenager, your best bet is to start doing yard work and see what you can pick up through word of mouth. All my sisters good job opportunities came through word of mouth, her asking the right people to look out for her having worked hard to impress them with her determination. She also worked hard at making herself an attractive prospect, looking at what she could offer that other people couldn't and finding her 'niche'. For her, this was she is small enough to ride 13hh ponies (5'5 and slim), has a lot of hunting experience, is good with children and good at ride and lead, and can drive. Once she turned 18 she got her HGV license too. And as she worked hard developing her marketable skills (and also riding her current horses as well as she could and making sure she was always professional in her attitude and appearance) she got more and more work as a rider, and was eventually offered horses on competition livery. It was a long graft and she did start at the very bottom picking up poo and smiling politely about it!

 

[Honey08]

It would be very difficult to cross over from being a sharer to being paid. 99% of people are probably going to say no, so be prepared for that.

If I was going to pay someone to ride my horse I would expect them to have their own professional insurance, be experienced, capable and reliable.

 

[windand rain]

No way would I pay someone to ride when they had been riding for free for years. To be honest if you want to be paid you need to get new clients and either keep your loans/shares as they are or give them up first and see if the owner still wants to have them ridden by you and are prepared to employ you but then you get the nitty gritty of employees insurance and tax and national insurance payments as being self employed just because you are working for cash doesn't mean you don't have to comply with the law

 

[Fides]

I have a horse that I have part loaned to a couple of teens. Both were very good but I wouldn't have paid them anything if they had asked as they were not adding anything of value to my horse, other than excercise. I would pay for a professional to bring on my horse, someone with better riding skills than me, but not a teen sorry.

 

[MarniL]

Both owners pay for their DIY livery, shoes etc. I pay for lessons and on the rare occasion that I do one of the shows/training sessions/games at the yard I'll pay for the entry. I also poopick and clean the tack regularly. Generally if there's anything else they need me to cover (like bringing them in for the farrier) I'll do it without hesitation. It's been a fairly good set up for all of us until now, though I'm beginning to get frustrated about the lack of communication; I both love and hate being left to my own devices. At the moment I doubt it would be possible to juggle school, the horses and a job, especially with my anxiety being so high right now.

 

[twiggy2]

sounds more to me like you are getting a free loan, if I was the owner and this cropped up I might pay you short term and advertise for a paying loan to take over from you.

my 17yr old has been paid over the holiday to ride one of the horses where I work, she was however asked to ride and the payment offered.

 

[MarniL]

Thank you to those of you who have commented so far, it's all very helpful. As someone mentioned I do need honest answers and I'm grateful that nothing is being sugarcoated.

 

[PolarSkye]

Thank you to those of you who have commented so far, it's all very helpful. As someone mentioned I do need honest answers and I'm grateful that nothing is being sugarcoated.

Like I said, you sound lovely . . . I hope you work something out that suits you . . .

P

 

[MarniL]

Basically yes, however what bothers me is that a free loan was never the arrangement and has not yet been addressed. When I first began riding for them payment was briefly suggested, though at the time I was young, glad to have horses to ride and thought that expecting to be paid was rude. My riding has improved immensely since then and now I feel like I might actually have something to offer.

 

[windand rain]

You sound like a level headed youngster so it may well be worth asking but not getting miffed and angry if they say no. As is evident from this thread most people would not pay you but the worst they can say is no and if they take offense, ask you not to ride anymore if the latter you could advertise your services else where and hope there is someone who will employ you. If it is a small amount you need and don't mind the job how about advertising a poo picking service in your spare time or dog walking or some other task that you could do but can pick and chose when you do it

 

[sasquatch]

Being honest, I'm around the same age as you and if a sharer expected to be paid to ride my horse, I would say no and find another sharer asap.

If you advertised yourself as a rider willing to exercise and 'horse sit' during the week and charged say, £5 per week + petrol for half an hour riding, mucking out and grooming, that would be different.

Honestly, with 10 years riding experience, including very young, green horses and some very challenging horses, I am very very hesitant about even asking to ride someone else's horse for free. If it was offered to me, I would happily do it, but by asking someone else it is completely different and my main worry would be that at 17, you agree that you are paid x amount to look after someone elses horses, then find you don't have enough time for life and school and then end up neglecting one area.

Even with the experience I have, and the fact I know what is within my limits, I would be very very wary of asking for money in return for riding especially if you have limited competition experience and don't get off your yard much. It's very hard to find a free share, and for that not only are you lucky but I wouldn't take it for granted by asking for any sort of payment.

You are better off advertising yourself as willing to ride for payment and exercise ponies/horse sit and keep your share arrangement as is, or maybe look into doing something else for money. Now is the time to apply for christmas staff positions!

 

[Theocat]

I'm going to disagree with most on here and say "it depends".

If you are actively improving these horses week on week, and your ability is such that the horses are benefitting and increasing in value, I don't think there's any harm in asking. If you need an "in", explain that there's a possibility you might need to cut down on days / hours because you're going to have to start looking for paid work to cover a few expenses - and see what they say.

if you aren't at a level where you really are improving the horses, and are instead exercising them or keeping them ticking over, then payment isn't appropriate.

Bear in mind that if you decide to look at working as a rider and charging people, they might expect you to start getting on their problems - people are much more likely to pay for help when things are going wrong; if things are ticking along nicely it isn't hard to find a rider for free even if you don't want payment! I also echo the poster above who said if you're going to be paid, do it properly with tax, etc.

You sounds extremely switched on and grown up. If your posts match your riding, I'd happily pay you something to hack my perfectly sensible horse a couple of times a week

 

[Jnhuk]

In addition to the other comments already made on here, I would check the position of insurance as soon as you are getting paid for professional riding services I suspect you will no Ionger be covered by owner's insurance so you would need you own

 

[Fides]

In addition to the other comments already made on here, I would check the position of insurance as soon as you are getting paid for professional riding services I suspect you will no Ionger be covered by owner's insurance so you would need you own

As an owner, my insurance doesn't cover anyone else to ride my horses, I would expect them to insure themselves. Never assume that because the horse is insured, you are.

 

[Dry Rot]

Supply and demand. In some areas it is very difficult to get good riders and what takes the time finishing a young horse is getting them hacked out.

Do some research, find out how many others want their horses exercised, then you can legitimately go back to your first clients (?) and point out how much it is costing YOU to ride their horses. It is called "opportunity cost". A brain surgeon on £500 an hour is crazy to service his own car when he can pay someone £12 an hour to do it for him. If there is a local demand for riders at a specific rate (and anything has got to be better than nothing!) then your existing clients need to match it or you go elsewhere. Just be careful you do not end up jumping from the frying pan into the fire!

Edited to say I have public liability insurance which does cover a casual rider. I believe it is also possible to get rider insurance for under £100/pa.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Whilst I currently pay for someone to exercise H, whether I'd hire you would depend on whether you have a proven track record of bringing on/adding value to the horses you currently ride and/or a decent competition record in my chosen discipline. I'd also be wary due to your age as at 17 you're technically still a child.

 

[Jnhuk]

As an owner, my insurance doesn't cover anyone else to ride my horses, I would expect them to insure themselves. Never assume that because the horse is insured, you are.

I agree with you Fides but some insurance polices do cover other riders with owner's permission. I know as mine do.

 

[Umbongo]

I agree with the majority that it is quite cheeky, there is no harm in asking but I wouldn't be too surprised if one of the owners told you to take a hike. There are plenty of other keen teenagers who would be willing to take your place, or paying sharers/loaners. I have been in the same situation as you. I had free shares in the past and would never have dreamed of asking for payment, as I would not have been able to pay for riding/shares otherwise. I had to look into other forms of employment.

If I was looking to pay someone to ride my horse, I would be looking for a professional with more experience, competition record etc. If my horse did not have any major problems and did not need professional help then I would look for a sharer....but I would not be paying them. I would be tempted to keep your arrangement as is and look for other work. If you think it may be too much then unfortunately something will have to go, and you may have to ride one of the horses less/only have one share.

As said, you can ask, but just be aware they may not be happy about this. It is promising that one has reacted positively, although if the arrangement has always been a bit vague/lack of communication then do you think it will be able to suddenly become a regular paid arrangement? If you think it may work then suggest a formal chat with the owners and draw up a contract. Maybe mention that you may have to cut down the riding if you cannot manage school, riding and a job? One of them/both of them may decide that they would like to keep you and pay you?

If you do go down this route then you may need to consider insurance, tax etc. Good luck

 

[Dry Rot]

I agree with the majority that it is quite cheeky, there is no harm in asking but I wouldn't be too surprised if one of the owners told you to take a hike. There are plenty of other keen teenagers who would be willing to take your place, or paying sharers/loaners. I have been in the same situation as you. I had free shares in the past and would never have dreamed of asking for payment, as I would not have been able to pay for riding/shares otherwise. I had to look into other forms of employment.

If I was looking to pay someone to ride my horse, I would be looking for a professional with more experience, competition record etc. If my horse did not have any major problems and did not need professional help then I would look for a sharer....but I would not be paying them. I would be tempted to keep your arrangement as is and look for other work. If you think it may be too much then unfortunately something will have to go, and you may have to ride one of the horses less/only have one share.

As said, you can ask, but just be aware they may not be happy about this. It is promising that one has reacted positively, although if the arrangement has always been a bit vague/lack of communication then do you think it will be able to suddenly become a regular paid arrangement? If you think it may work then suggest a formal chat with the owners and draw up a contract. Maybe mention that you may have to cut down the riding if you cannot manage school, riding and a job? One of them/both of them may decide that they would like to keep you and pay you?

If you do go down this route then you may need to consider insurance, tax etc. Good luck

Please tell them to PM me! BTW, I am in the Scottish Highlands and finding anyone reliable, of any age, is like looking for hens with teeth, pay or no pay! As I have said, it is supply and demand.

 

[Wagtail]

It must depend where you are in the country. When I was sharing two of my horses (I had 3 at the time) I was never short of people willing to pay £30 a week for 2 - 3 days share. They didn't have to do any chores for that. It was only a few years ago.

 

[ester]

Perhaps if it were approached differently and you said that as you now feel you need to be earning your keep you will need to take on paid rides or get a job and so might not be able to ride anymore - and see if the offer of payment comes up.

 

[Honey08]

I agree with you Fides but some insurance polices do cover other riders with owner's permission. I know as mine do.

My third party cover covers other riders, so my sharers are covered. If there is payment for riding involved the rider is classed as a professional and wouldn't be covered. When I paid a local freelance to keep my mare fit while I was away she had her own cover.

 

[MissTyc]

My third party cover covers other riders, so my sharers are covered. If there is payment for riding involved the rider is classed as a professional and wouldn't be covered. When I paid a local freelance to keep my mare fit while I was away she had her own cover.

^ this

As soon as you are getting paid, you need professional liability insurance, and of course any other accident/injury insurance for yourself that would like. Depending on how much you are getting paid, you may find it's not quite worth it for just one or two horses. You're unlikely to be in a taxed category, but remember you still need to fill in self-assessment for the tax people and make sure your accounts/etc are in good order. If you are going down this route, then you should definitely advertise for more clients and do it all properly.

I get paid to ride. It surprises me sometimes as I am not an amazing Olympian, however I am experienced, calm and effective on a range of horses across disciplines (I will school flat or jump and also hack out depending on the owner's goals), so I tend to get batch jobs on private livery yards, usually after either teaching or riding for one person and then maybe covering a holiday and then it goes word of mouth from there.