WWYD? help (dog school)

Cahill

Cahill

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comments,views,helpful advice needed please.

J is a year old now,i am pleased with him (except for 1 little thing that i will come to in a min)

i wanted him to be friendly,walk nice and be good around the horses,all of this he is.

when you 1st meet him,he is bouncy but underneath it is quite submissive,when he meets other dogs,he often flattens himself,if they dont want to play,he carries on his way or if they are like him,they have a little play and i can call him away or he leaves them to stay with me if i keep walking.

I started obedience classes when he was 3 months,although he had the attention span of a gnat at school,i enjoy/enjoyed going and we were improving,little by little.
(i always say to the teacher "but he does it at home" and of course,the teacher says we need to be able to have the dogs attention anywhere.)

now,2 weeks ago,at school,he met a dog who he seems to like too much,the other dog just rolls over and nearly wets himself,then J tried to hump him.all that lesson,j would not take his eyes off him and we went home all hot and bothered.
last night,same again so i took j into a corner to try and take his mind off the other dog and calm him down,i did get him to sit,stay down in the last ten mins of the lesson but felt it was a total disaster as were were both wound up.

i think,next week,if the other dog is there,i may just go home.
if the other dog told j to `get off` i`m sure there would be no problem.

sorry to ramble,help!what would you do?
thank you.
 
What does your trainer say about this?

In our classes we do not allow dogs to greet each other when they are on the lead. We practice working around other dogs - for example, the class will sit in a line, and one by one the dogs will be walked to heel around each dog in turn - the idea being that the sitting dogs focus on their owners and the moving dog remains at heel. We also practice meeting and greeting, where the owners intitally walk straight past each other, building up to stopping and having a quick chat without their dogs jumping on each other. We start small and work up.

If we had two dogs winding each other up, I would get them to work well away from each other and we would do heel work, so the dogs are moving rather than sitting and eyeballing each other, and we would then do the 'look' command (ie focus on your owner).

If this was during off-lead play, well in our classes if any dog gets too rude, the owner steps in, and also possibly us if needed. We count rudeness as putting their paws up on other dogs. It is important that woners do not allow any humping etc as this can lead to spats, which we do not want at training.

I would guess that like in most training these days you will be using treats - make sure you have properly interesting ones, good and smelly and not something you use all the time. Training is an exciting environment and sometimes you need that little extra help that a good whiffy bit of livercake brings! People do turn up at our classes with kibble and it just isn't effective for some dogs. Also, take a special toy, again not one the dog has all the time - reserve this only for training. Use it as a distraction. I would not allow your dog to greet others on the lead - lead time is work time. And I would head to the opposite end of the room and work on getting your dogs focus on you. Your treats and toy are for this - also, use things like changes of direction, puppy recalls etc - mix it up and be unpredictable and exciting to your dog.

I think this is something your trainer should help you with tbh, I would see what they have to say and take action accordingly. Or come and see us:D
 
Your training class dosnt sound very structured, If I was the owner of the other dog I wouldnt be very happy. I would ring the trainer and discuss your worries with him/her and if you are not give strategies to deal with this behaviour I would vote with my feet and find another training class. As Spud said in training classes dogs are not allowed any contact with other dogs whilst working and with your dog.

Its surprising how many people bring low value treats such as Markies and in your instance if your dog is normally fed in the afternoon I would wait to feed after your training class.
 
I agree, this is something your trainer should be working on.
We also do the walking in and out, walking through a 'tunnel' of other dogs, passing each other etc.

To deviate a little from what Spudlet says, working away from each other is fine in the short term and for establishing what the 'watch' command means, but keeping the dogs away from each other and doing the training in a sterile environment all the time will not actually solve anything in the long term, you will have to close the gap and up the distraction eventually.

B had a huge issue with a doberman at class, and indeed his own brother had a huge issue with him.

Initially, yes, focus on work away from each other but our trainer singled us out and made us work beside the doberman, did things like get each owner to chat to each other, feed their own dog, feed the other's dog. The less my dog reacted, the higher the reward. A lot of patience required, but we got there.
Active exercises as Spud says, like heelwork and sit/down/stand and mixes of that, passing each other.

With B and his brother, if we had to wait all day for the dogs to calm down and pay attention, we would. Again, we were singled out to do group work together.
Initially, yes, walk away, do a circle, come back to the spot, if the dog is really going mental, but never drag the dog off the field and admit defeat.
B's brother's owner, when he grizzles or eyeballs other dogs, gets annoyed and drags the dog away and goes home.
That dog has not shown one bit of improvement in three years, every time he sees another dog his excitement and frustration is elevated because he never gets to properly see or interact with them.
My dog, because I refused to isolate him from other dogs no matter how ugly he looked or sounded or how annoyingly unruly he was compared to the perfect dogs in class :p no longer looks or sounds ugly!
But to cut a long story short, avoiding the other dog is not the answer, long-term.

Your trainer should be being a little more pro-active on this, don't be afraid to ask for extra help and don't be afraid to look for a new class if you are not happy.

Agree, make sure your dog is hungry and you are feeding something particularly yummy. Very few dogs follow commands 'just because' and treats will do nothing for the dog if he already has a full stomach.
 
Agreed cc, the dogs need to learn to interact but to begin with the look etc needs to be established and you're not going to do that if the dogs are going mental trying to jump on each others' heads.

This has given me an idea for a little exercise to do next time I teach though (mwahahahaa):D
 
thank you for replies.

i use high value(meat/chicken bits) treats for the lesson and also take a fav toy.(he does not have access to all his toys all the time)
also,the hall we use is not huge.

in our lesson,we usually start with a large circle,all walking to heel(some on leads,some not)then some sit while others weave in and out.....then some group recall from one end of the room to the other or individually if we are not too good...some sit-down-stand and some emergency stops and then 1 at a time we do some retrieve.
at the end we go in a circle again and leave the dogs in a sit/down while the owners mingle in the middle,to finish on a calm note. other times,we have had a `gate` to go in and out and around and cones and sometimes use a fleece to send the dogs away to sit/wait on.


i note the above poster who mentioned it not being a good idea to remove the dog altogether and also another poster who said they would be annoyed if they were the `other` dog.
i did mention it to one of the trainers who said to work on our `leave it/watch` but i really feel that he was past reasoning with and i ending up yanking him about and getting v.hot :(

it is a shame because it is a conveniant class (time/location) for us and have seen some others that are lots £`s and not near.

i may give it a miss next week or not stay if other dog is there.

just come back from our walk today,met and leave-it lots dogs,leave-it couple cats,good recall and no pulling on lead.

what would you do?
 
When I said I wouldnt be happy if I was the other dog owner I wasnt aiming that at you but the trainer.

I agree that the look at the other dog atm is too much for your dog, I had one dog who the minute he was allowed to look would kick off big time. I practised for hours the look at me to the extent we would go into a class and that is what he would do and ignore other dogs. With another of my dogs she had a fear response and looking at the other dog without reacting would be rewarded with a treat.

Are you at a KC good citizen award class?,how many dogs in your class?.

If you trust this trainer I wouldnt be taking my dog out of class and would be working hard to overcome this issue and taking this opportunity to improve his behaviour.
 
Do you have the option to take him to the car, time out for five minutes and bring him back out? My pup used to squeak and squawk through excitement and squeal at other dogs, right you, back in the car, five minutes, back in the class, the minute he started wheedling, out, back in the car, third time back in, oh, right, the longer I keep quiet, the more fun stuff I can do.
Depends on the dog but talk it over with the trainer.
 
Sometimes that kind of set up versus and outside at home one can be a little to much, someone else funnily enough who used this forum had huge issues with said dog literally becoming a super charged wild pony:D when he entered the class, in this instance the trainer did nothing to help and left the poor girl in a predicament of A, dreading class and B, feel her handling was inadequate and other people where looking down on her, this went on over a year:confused:. I did indeed advise her to "leave" the class, there where getting no where, I recommended she choose a more intense/obedience type class, as he had very good focus but this set up was way to much , in this situation it had already gotten way out of control and he associated class with this behaviour, she and the dog are now doing very well training based classes.
I would not leave the class in this situation, as it seems to be one dog not the whole atmosphere and it has just begun so plenty of time to get a handle on this (if your trainer) is indeed good at his job he should A, not allow you to sit/stand knowing you are struggling and DO nothing, he should be stepping in to help/advise you, if he/she has not thus far then that alone tells me alot!
If treats don't work then try other mothods (its not against the law) unless it is for that dog class, as CC suggests a time out is worth a try, my mam used this alot in her class (along time ago) she no longer trains, and of course reprimand (dum da dum dum dum):eek::p be firmer with him, a check and then a treat for focus. Don't stress/you are already in the dreading stage (I dont blame you) you should be getting support and help (that's what you pay for) what has your trainer suggested so far?

You say your trainer suggests (focus anywhere) just re read lol, so how is he working with this, what has he suggested? if that's his answer then don't leave just yet he should have it for you and soon.
 
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a little update-
i was fed up and missed a week,i emailed one of the trainers and she suggested i go back to class 1.
so
off we toddles to class last night and he was much better,he did pick out another potential `favourite friend` but i was able to get his attention.he was not brilliant or anything but i was pleased.

also,in the week that i never went to class in the hall,i found another class at an equestrian center,so we went along,i think it is better because there is lots of space,there was only 1 other pup there ( because near xmas and some of the others had colds) but was really pleased with him here so think i will continue with this 1 too.
similar methods.

my next question....
J is 13 months now and is thinking about humping other dogs (not bitches just dogs! )
what are your thoughts on getting him `done`? my vet said he could be left till 18 months(being a large breed ) but i think it may be hampering his training/focusing.

thoughts on this please?
 
Glad he's settled :)

Would you say he has much more growing to do? It's up to you.
Do be quite firm in trying to stop the humping, you don't want another dog to get annoyed and have a snap.
 
he weighted 42 kg (about 92 lbs) when last weighted about 2 weeks ago.

he is taller and longer than my old dog but she had a broad chest and was much bigger around her rib cage.i would think he has filling out to do.
 
Diesel was 37kg at 18months when I had him neutered, he was still not mature physicaly or mentally but was starting to cock his leg in the house if bitches were present. He had started to take an unwelcome interest in them so decided to go ahead on vets advice and neuter him. This stopped the previous behaviour but I would have never tolerated him trying to hump other bitches or dogs.
 
Cahill said:
my next question....
J is 13 months now and is thinking about humping other dogs (not bitches just dogs! )
what are your thoughts on getting him `done`? my vet said he could be left till 18 months(being a large breed ) but i think it may be hampering his training/focusing.

thoughts on this please?
Click to expand...

Then teach him not to hump and to focus on you! :) At 13 months he will probably be in the middle of his final testosterone surge, so until his testosterone subsides to the level that it will be at maturity you are likely to encounter such behaviour.

You need to teach him self-control, which (not unnaturally) from your earlier posting he appears to lack big time! :) He needs to learn self-control in ALL situations and part of that is to manage his hormones! (Think sixteen year old adolescent male!)

Castrating him now, will lower his testosterone level....it doesn't happen immediately and may take several months by which time nature would have lowered it anyway. Castrating alone will also not teach him to stop humping.....you will have to train that in any case.

Personally, I wouldn't castrate a dog of his size/breed until 3 years of age; it's not just about physical maturity, which will probably occur at 2 years of age, but about psychological and social maturity too.
 
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yes,i agree that i need to get tough on this humping.

whilst at home/yard/visiting family/ he is perfect,
out walking/busy places/park etc good.
but school,can be a horror sometimes and thats when i feel i am telling him off and it is all negative and can be difficult to get his attention and turn it to positive.

new teacher said when dog is full of energy,dont try to subdue it but channel it and also do lots of `switching on and off` exercises.
 
Cahill said:
but school,can be a horror sometimes and thats when i feel i am telling him off and it is all negative and can be difficult to get his attention and turn it to positive.

new teacher said when dog is full of energy,dont try to subdue it but channel it and also do lots of `switching on and off` exercises.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the new teacher is spot on! Don't get angsty yourself or dog will pick up on it! We've all had dogs that make us look like complete idiots! :D
 
does he look like the type of dog to take the P ? :) :)

DSCF1635.jpg


at the park

DSCF1607.jpg
 
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a little update for anyone who is interested.

went to dog school no 1 tonight,he was really good(well,good for us )also,done some new things and he was paying attention.

earlier on in the week went to dog school no 2 for the second time,very pleased with him there too.

both places are very different,no1 close up with other dogs and a bit chaotic sometimes,a great bunch of folk and i have been going for nearly a year.
no2 large area,very calm and focused and working on your own ,trainer v calm and gives the dog time to work out things for himself.

i can see the benefit of both places so am going to go to both.

oh yes,on the matter of the humping,i decided that i have to get tough on that one so i was ready for him,when the dog arrived that he had the `thing` about,i managed to keep his attention so the situation never came about.

i feel we have definitely taken a step forward :)
 
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