WWYD? Laminitis advice

[Auslander]

Not now but I was! O and Mat come up to me in north Oxon - wouldn't have anyone else.

Similar situation here. I've gradually moved deeper into the wilds of Berkshire, but thankfully, she's still happy to come to me. If she wasn't, I'd move!

 

[StarcatcherWilliam]

I really feel for you OP and hope he comes right. My warmblood mare had laminitis but sadly it was misdiagnosed. Several vets (a total of 17 vets visits) and two farriers later and I had no option but to PTS due to rotation of the pedal bone. It all went on for two months and I wish I'd known earlier what it was, as all of her treatment was completely wrong and the main vet behaved appalingly throughout. The whole sorry saga still haunts me 2.5 years later.

Go with your gut feeling and if you're not happy with the treatment your vets are giving get a second opinion from another vet.

Sorry, just seen that you have got a second opinion and it sounds like these vets are taking a different course of action. Keeping everything crossed for you and can imagine just how you're feeling at the moment :_( xx

 

[atropa]

I think this is the root of the problem. They've had ponies come down with lammi and recover with no real issues, but my pony isnt getting better and for me hes my only pony not one of many. In other ways they have been absolutely brilliant and are lovely, lovely people, but theres too many helpers and kids for anyone to know for certain that hes not getting fed. Either way its not really working for us so I need to do something. I need to get him comfortable first though

Ahh sorry I didn't realise it was helpers and kids around too, I assumed it was the yard workers who were making all these mistakes. I definitely think a very direct laminated sign on his door will help in that case. I know how you feel, when my mare was recovering and even now I am extremely paranoid about her health and her feet and her shoes and how much she eats and if she is slightly lame or am I imagining it, I'm sure most people on my yard think I'm a hypochondriac but she is my absolute world.

I'll say as well that you need to make sure you're taking care of yourself too, it's very very stressful looking after a laminitic. I did both ends of the day and commuted ~100 miles the whole summer and at times I honestly could have had both of us PTS. Make sure you eat and sleep well and take trustworthy help if it's offered.

 

[OWLIE185]

Your horse needs personal and consistent attention to ensure a speedy and full recovery.
If possible get your vet to prescribe Finadyne for one week as this is a powerful pain killer but should not be used for longer than a week.
Then use Bute at least twice a day.
Give your horse one slice of 1 - 3 hour soaked hay every 4 hours 24 hours per day.
Any pain killers should be given in a well soaked low calorie feed.
You should expect your horse to be in for about 4 full months so that the feet stabilise.
At this stage do not touch the feet or have them trimmed - leave well alone until your horse has gone sound for four weeks.
Determine what caused this incident of Laminitis and check that your horse does not have an emerging small red worm burden that can cause Laminitis especially at this time of the year. This can only be determined by a blood test. It will NOT show up in a worm count.

 

[Leo Walker]

Ahh sorry I didn't realise it was helpers and kids around too, I assumed it was the yard workers who were making all these mistakes. I definitely think a very direct laminated sign on his door will help in that case. I know how you feel, when my mare was recovering and even now I am extremely paranoid about her health and her feet and her shoes and how much she eats and if she is slightly lame or am I imagining it, I'm sure most people on my yard think I'm a hypochondriac but she is my absolute world.

Yeah its not the yard its the kids and the other liveries and therefore nearly impossible to stop. One of them admitted it the other day and I read her the riot act and she promises she hasnt done it since. Like WelshD said hes cute and persistent and will beg all day long even if he has food so hes doing himself no favours

 

[Leo Walker]

When my husband and I saw him the other day we spent a bit of time chatting to him and he was really bright so I certainly wouldn't be thinking too hard about making radical decisions just yet

He is VERY bright and incredibly happy. I know hes in pain but he considers box rest the best thing ever. Hes getting a lot of attention and room service so its fine by him. If he had his way I think he would live in that stable forever. Hes such a funny little horse!

 

[Micropony]

Didn't want to read and run, was going to make a farrier recommendation but great to hear you're already sorted. Sounds like an absolute nightmare situation although it's really positive you now sound to have a great vet/farrier team supporting you. Have been where you are re taking the advice of a trusted vet against my instincts, which turned out to be right all along. It really sucks and still upsets me if I think about it.

Can't give you any sensible advice about the move, definitely sounds like a case of when rather than if. Now you are being supported by professionals who are being a bit more proactive, hopefully the fog will start to clear and the right decision will present itself.

Sending you both calm healing vibes.

 

[_HP_]

The Laminitis Site is an excellent, up to date, non bias place for anything laminitis related.
The first thing you need is for that trim to get done...once the hoof has been realigned that will relieve the pain. While youre waiting for that, Help your pony by supporting his whole hoof using pads and boots.
Don't let your vet discount a cushings test and also, get a test for EMS as that will give you a guide as to how sensitive he is and something to gauge his recovery from. It's important to find out what is causing the laminitis otherwise how can you successfully treat it.
Don't despair....laminitis is totally treatable once you find the cause. Once he is sound again following the trim to correct his rotation, medication if necessary and diet then it's just a case of management but you have to know exactly why he has the laminitis. In over 90% of cases the cause is endocrine so either EMS or Cushing's

http://www.thelaminitissite.org/laminitis.html

 

[Leo Walker]

The new vet is running a lot of tests tomorrow to see whats going on. He has to be metabolic! Hes having his trim on Monday with the vet there so she can sedate/give pain kilers and nerve block him if needs be and xray during and after. Totally different approach and hopefully one that will help. I feel completely different today. Last night and even this morning I was crying and feeling totally helpless but now I'm feeling positive and I think we can probably get him through this. Its enough for now that they are going get his pain under control.

 

[SEL]

Not now but I was! O and Mat come up to me in north Oxon - wouldn't have anyone else.

Would 'O' cover the Thame area? If so, would one of you mind PM'ing me the details? I may well be after a second opinion for a horse. Mine isn't laminitic but I'm liking the thorough second opinion that Frankie is getting. TIA (& best of luck to Frankie - laminitis is horrible & stressful and I'm so happy you've found someone who is listening to you & helping the pony!)

 

[SpringArising]

I wouldn't move him but I would as others said print off a big laminated sign, which is easy for children to understand. Could you put some mesh across the top half of the door so people can't put food in? That way he'd still be able to see out too.

 

[Apercrumbie]

OP it's great that you have managed to get a second opinion - I hope that he'll be more comfortable soon. Laminitis is just hideous and so stressful. The only dampening word of caution I will give is that the first vet is right about pain distorting metabolic tests, so just be prepared for retesting in the future if necessary.

 

[eggs]

Would 'O' cover the Thame area? If so, would one of you mind PM'ing me the details? I may well be after a second opinion for a horse. Mine isn't laminitic but I'm liking the thorough second opinion that Frankie is getting. TIA (& best of luck to Frankie - laminitis is horrible & stressful and I'm so happy you've found someone who is listening to you & helping the pony!)

Have pm'd you with the details

 

[Pinkvboots]

Thanks to Auslander I have managed to get a really good second opinion. Some small changes to be made straight away and they are coming out tomorrow to see him and sort out some different pain relief for him to try and get him comfortable, then back out beginning of next week to work with the farrier to trim his feet in line with the xrays and xray again. Hes also having the safe metabolic tests then and probably starting on Metformin, with a plan for lots more investigation if they dont show anything. And a cushings test which my vets have refused to do.

I got off the phone and burst into tears as I was just relieved to have someone who is fighting his corner. I'm going to leave making a decision about moving him until the vet sees him tomorrow and then go with what they suggest.

I am really glad your getting a second opinion I would do the same in your situation, I have had 2 with laminitis both brought on by metabolic issues, I know you must address and treat the underlying issue first but I would want frog supports or some sort of pads on to take pressure of the toe, and I am sure he will be much more comfortable and I would syringe his meds so you know his getting them, I wouldnt trim or touch his feet too much while his still very sore it's best to wait until they are mostly sound. I wouldn't move him the way he is its too stressful wait until he is more comfortable.

I really know how you feel it is really tough dealing with a laminitic I really hope the new vet can get him comfortable and on the road to recovery.

 

[Michen]

I am far from qualified or experienced enough to give advice but really sorry to read this FC XXX

 

[Nari]

I haven't read all the replies, but I completely agree with everything Equi has said on page 1. Get the angles right on his feet & he'll be much more comfortable plus the mechanical damage to the laminae from a too long toe will be reduced, I've seen first hand the difference this can make. I certainly wouldn't rely on bed alone for support but would discuss what was best with a good farrier since there are several options & they'll have a better idea of what's best for him. Once he's recovered I'd consider moving him, but I'd be wary at the moment. I would put a big sign outside his box saying "feeding me anything may well kill me, fuss only please".

Metabolic horses can go on to have a good & active life, indeed if you can get them sound then work is good for them. They don't have to be grass free. I found NoMetSyn from EquiLife helps mine & the ladies who man the phone are very helpful with a wealth of knowledge - it's the sales arm of the Laminitis Clinic & they also nurse the patients.

Good luck with him.

 

[Nari]

Just read the rest of the thread - well done for being so determined & getting advice & a second opinion arranged, it's not easy when you know it won't be popular at the yard. Good on you FrankieCob!

 

[Auslander]

Would 'O' cover the Thame area? If so, would one of you mind PM'ing me the details? I may well be after a second opinion for a horse. Mine isn't laminitic but I'm liking the thorough second opinion that Frankie is getting. TIA (& best of luck to Frankie - laminitis is horrible & stressful and I'm so happy you've found someone who is listening to you & helping the pony!)

On reflection, I don't think it's a spankable offence to recommend a vet - so for anyone interested. Olwen Lloyd at Chess Valley Equine, in Amersham. Quick google will get you the website, and contact details

 

[Leo Walker]

My lovely new vet came today. The practice owner couldnt make it so we agreed it was ok to send one of her vets to do an initial exam and adjust his meds as they cant prescribe without seeing him. She came, examined him, didnt hoof test him as he was clearly laminitic and in pain. She was brilliant. I cant say for certain what she did will make any difference but I genuinely felt like she was on my side and fighting for him!

Hes been given new painkillers that I can syringe him once a day, so I know hes getting it and hopefully its more effective. Hes back on the sedalin he should never have been taken off! And she drew lots of blood for cushings and inital metabolic tests. We discussed that they might be skewed by pain etc, but at least we now have SOME testing going on!

She drove 80 miles to see him and couldnt have been more helpful! We discussed all the things I am worried about, agreed that it does take time, but she listened to me, she didnt always agree with me 100% or think I was being totally rational but she discussed it with me and explained her thoughts, which is good as I was in a state of semi hysteria by that point!

I am VERY happy with how things are going. It doesnt matter to me if hes on box rest for months on end now. His pain is under control, he doesnt care as he loves box rest, weird little git he is! And I am happy that while it may take a long time there is an actual plan and if the inital tests dont give me an underlying cause there are more tests they can do. So one way or another we will get to the bottom of this!

It was also massively refreshing when I explained about the diet and weight loss but how I still thought he was slightly over what he should be and she agreed. Previous vets have always said he is fine, and while he is fine compared to most horses hes still a bit on the fat side of right, and with potential metabolic issues he needs to be on the right side of thin!

We have a long way to go and the ones that dont make it tend to be the ones with sinking so its still a worry for me, but now I know hes not in pain and I have a team of people working with me to get him right! I'm hoping Monday and the trims and xrays bring some improvements and then I can look at moving him.

So many people have helped and supported me ( Auslander pulled some strings and put me in touch with these vets and is literally his guardian angel and I am indebted to her forever!) and now a friend has gotten me a place on her yard where they do a lot of rehabilitation work. He spent a month there about 18 months ago on schooling livery and its the only place I have never worried about him. They are doing me an absolutely amazing mates rates rehab livery deal so once he is safe to travel thats where he will go

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

FC, so pleased that you have had a positive visit from the vet. Hopefully now you can get a plan of action together once the results from the tests are through. Knowledge is power so fingers crossed in a few months time you can post a great update.

 

[Red-1]

I too am glad you have a plan. Bless your OH too, for being so supportive.

 

[Leo Walker]

What a difference today! He had the new pain killers this morning for the first time as well as small amounts of the sedalin he should never have been taken off. He has also had a minor diet tweak and is on Topspec Antilam which has my barefoot antenna twitching! But the vet wants him to have good levels of amino acids and protein etc so I've run with it. Hes a much happier boy!

I had the bill this morning as well, they charged me an £80 call out fee to travel an hour and 20 mins to me, ex useless vet charged me £60 to come 5.6miles. I'm not sure quite what went wrong with my old vets, but it doesn't matter now. Hes comfortable and hopefully when hes trimmed on Monday will improve again!

 

[Nari]

This sounds so much better FrankieCob . I used TopSpec AntiLam & I swear it helped my very big laminitic repair the damage & grow the best feet he could. He also had a lot of sinking over the years but careful management & brilliant shoeing meant he carried on for years - unshod wasn't an option with him so I can't advise on that. His problem was cushings that showed predominantly & early on as laminitis, made worse by feet that had never been good & being a very big lad, but he was proof that you shouldn't give in while the horse is still fighting.

Still wishing you lots of luck, and I suspect he'll be happier after a correct trim tomorrow, that would often make a big difference to Jim.

 

[Clodagh]

That sounds really positive. Well done. And Auslander is great to have been so helpful.

 

[Tyssandi]

Until 2 days ago he was living on ad lib straw with small amounts of high fibre haylage, but I've just changed him onto 24 hour soaked hay as I'm a bit dubious about him living mainly on straw like that. Hes always been fed straw but mixed with hay and he didnt really eat the straw, whereas now he has to. The straw seems to have a lot of hay mixed in it as well. I also think if he has hay people will be less inclined to feed him! He doesnt like soaked hay, for a fat cob hes very fussy! But he was eating it tonight, so hopefully it will be ok.

He also gets big buckets of chopped straw and a tiny feed of pink mash mixed with Top Spec chopped straw twice a day with his bute in. Progressive Earth balancer for laminitics, extra salt and a herbal mix of cinnamon, nettle and milk thistle. I dont know if the latter helps but he eats his feeds better with it in and it cant hurt!

Not sure what else I could do management wise but I am open to suggestions

If his feed is being eaten by other animals this would make me question this yards best interest for my horse. I would look to speak to the yard owner before I made any hasty decisions, then I would get shavings deep bed and soak his hay as Equi said 24hrs then rinse it thoroughly.

Also Laminator helps with compromised floor restriction in the foot in the onset of a lami attack, put a sign outside saying no treats or anyone else giving him additional feed. Make sure his door is always secure ( mine got out and raided barley rings. You could soak hay a day in advance and let it dry out so he eats dry hay only you know it is previously soaked.


I lost my MOAL a few years back and her some recently got his first attack of lami.

Does your vet do any client lectures on subjects like lami??? these are really good educational evenings.

Last resort I would move to another yard, despite the trauma of moving, they do adapt in the long term, you need to get the lami flare ups into a better control

 

[Nari]

How is he now Frankiecob?

 

[Leo Walker]

I bit the bullet and moved him about 10 days ago. It was done with the idea that if he wouldnt/couldnt load then he would be PTS as we couldnt carry on as we were. He was deteriorating and it just felt like I was delaying the inevitable and causing him to suffer in the mean time. When he was being trimmed he went down a couple of times as it was clearly so very painful for him despite IV painkillers. It was a particularly horrible thing to have to see and really made me question what I was doing to him But he was trimmed, xrayed and trimmed a bit more. He didnt improve after that, so I gave him 2 days to recover, drugged a him to the eyeballs and moved him.

He came off the ramp, looked round and tried to tow me to his old stable which considering how much sedalin I'd squirted down his neck was a bit of a surprise!

Hes now getting better But of course better is a relative term because better than non weight bearing is still very lame, but there is a small improvement every single day. Hes just really lame rather than lurching on 3 legs and he happily stands evenly on all feet. Hes losing weight as well which is a relief as he was putting weight on on box rest even on massively limited food!

But mainly he is radiantly happy! Hes always a cheerful little chappy but he just loves it where he is. The YM/YO all dote on him which is exactly how he thinks it should be :lol:

Ignore the state of him. He is in desperate need of a hog and clip but for obvious reasons I havent bothered of late. But you can see how happy he is!

 

[Dave's Mam]

Good to read. Glad he is making progress. <3

 

[Clodagh]

Really good news. Fingers crossed for continuing improvement. Love his happy cheeky face.

 

[pippixox]

Sorry not had time to read whole thread but wanted to comment as my friend has had similar troubles. She had a pony who had cushings and laminitis. Very hard to manage, particularly sensitive to frost and declined with age. Pretty sure she was only 8 when cushings was diagnosed, it's not always oldies. But when meds were at the right level laminitis was better. She also was more comfortable in heart bar shoes.

More recently she took on a pony who seemed to become laminitic out of the blue- despite living on wood chip with soaked hay and no diet change. She had laminitis in the past. Blood test showed she was diabetic/ now she is on daily tablets and has not had any problems since. Metaformin I think. She is 16 and now acts like a youngster as she is finally feeling well!