WWYD? Re. dangerous horse for sale...

Kitei

Kitei

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If anyone read my last thread about Obie's old fieldmate, this is in regards to said horse.

Came across his ad today whilst having a general browse, and was concerned to see that nothing was mentioned regarding him being even difficult or challenging. He's being advertised as an allrounder with no mention of any of the issues that I know he has and a false reason for sale. As this horse is dangerous, and at the very least needs to be marketed as a difficult animal, it's making me rather uncomfortable to see said ad that would, in my mind, appeal to someone who wants a "been there, done that" type and not someone with the relevant experience needed to handle him. I've not seen his sharer for about a week, so I haven't been able to speak to her, but I really think someone else is going to get hurt by this horse if they aren't very, very careful with where he goes.

Pretty brief post, really, but what would you do, if anything, in this situation? Sharer has not been particularly open to suggestions on the topic when I've breached it before, and owner is still in hospital and will be for some time, but I'm really dreading the next incident that occurs as a result of him.
 
This is the horse that kicked his owner in the head isn't it?

I too would be concerned but perhaps they are going to let people know when they ring or come to see him? You are in a very difficult position because he is not your horse nor are you nominally 'in charge' whilst the owner is in hospital. Do you have a good YO who could perhaps speak to the sharer and discuss things with them?
 
I never cease to be amazed at the lack of morality in some people. A few years ago I was shocked to find an advert for a trailer which was the one parked at my yard with a very rotten dangerous floor and which I had told the owners not to travel their horse in, and they didn't. But the ad said the trailer was recently serviced and 'in good condition!' I really don't know what to advise you to do. In the case I have mentioned I just told the owners to remove the trailer and I didn't want to have it sold from my property.
 
I think this thread illustrates very clearly that when viewing horses, you need to see them in the field, caught and tacked up, at least before you buy them, perhaps on a second viewing. Hopefully the people advertising this horse will tell prospective buyers the truth about him at the time of enquiry.
 
I would have hoped so, but the fact that they've lied about why he's being sold sets off alarm bells, really. That, and his ad suggests he's quite straight-forward and easy to do. There's just nothing in there that even suggests he might be the slightest bit difficult, and I'd say it looks like she's gone out of her way to make him look a lot better than he is.

It is that horse, Doormouse, yes. It isn't the only incident he's been involved in, though.

Our YO's are good, but not especially horsey. I can certainly see what they say about it.
 
Normally I'm one to keep my mouth closed and not say anything but this situation is ludicrous. I really think that either you or the YO need to have a serious talk with sharer AND owner (in hospital or not, she must have okay'd this sale so needs to take responsibility). If they are going to be honest when face-to-face with sellers then fine, but if they intend on selling dishonestly then I would be very direct about the fact that this horse could kill someone and that they will be liable due to recent happenings. I would also be telling them that if they do not say something to prospective buyers, I will.

I'm not sure what is wrong with some people, do they have no morals!?
 
I do find this a bit shocking but on the other hand it's entirely possible the horse WILL be completely manageable and not dangerous when moved to a new context... So I'm not sure I'd be that concerned in the grand scheme of things. I'm more a bit disgusted by the attitude of the people advertising though - I imagine they aren't assuming he will change and are just purposefully not mentioning the behavioural difficulties. That's such a horrible attitude to have.
 
I do find this a bit shocking but on the other hand it's entirely possible the horse WILL be completely manageable and not dangerous when moved to a new context... So I'm not sure I'd be that concerned in the grand scheme of things.
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I'd have to disagree with this, the thing double barrelled the owner in the face. I'd be concerned in the grand scheme because whose to say it won't do the same to any potential buyers trying it out? From what we've been told about it's attitude in previous threads. hopefully people will see its issues before they get in kicking range, but then there's the worry it behaves for the viewing, gets to its new home and then reverts back to it's old ways, taking the new owners by surprise as they were not forewarned?

Ugh it gives me anxiety to think of this whole situation!
 
Would Trading Standards be interested or able to do anything? It's not as if you are spreading tittle tattle, nor just your opinion, the person responsible for the advert is in hospital because of the animal, so surely the ad could be considered fraudulent. Think I'd ring them anyway, means a record will be held in the event of another incident and it will be anonymous.
 
I don't think that there's really anything that you can do, perhaps try persuading them that the horse could potentially hurt or kill a new owner and how would they stand legally knowing the horse had issues?

I couldn't sell one with that behaviour, let alone not even mention it! I really hope the owner intends explaining his issues and why she is selling to any callers.
 
I'll send it over this evening, Faracat, once I'm home from work. Got it saved on my laptop.

Trading standards is certainly an idea.... will have to look into that.
 
I have read the other thread. Only one option really, the horse should be put down.

If he was a dog who had put someone in hospital, would they be considering selling him or would he be making one last trip to the vet?
 
Wagtail said:
I think this thread illustrates very clearly that when viewing horses, you need to see them in the field, caught and tacked up, at least before you buy them, perhaps on a second viewing. Hopefully the people advertising this horse will tell prospective buyers the truth about him at the time of enquiry.
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This is also how I feel I like to see how a horse is in a stable being handled, turning up to view a horse that is already tacked up would make me suspicious, it's only happened once when I went to look at a horse with a friend, horse was being ridden in the school and looked like it had been hammered hence she didn't buy him.
 
Kitei said:
If anyone read my last thread about Obie's old fieldmate, this is in regards to said horse.

Came across his ad today whilst having a general browse, and was concerned to see that nothing was mentioned regarding him being even difficult or challenging. He's being advertised as an allrounder with no mention of any of the issues that I know he has and a false reason for sale. As this horse is dangerous, and at the very least needs to be marketed as a difficult animal, it's making me rather uncomfortable to see said ad that would, in my mind, appeal to someone who wants a "been there, done that" type and not someone with the relevant experience needed to handle him. I've not seen his sharer for about a week, so I haven't been able to speak to her, but I really think someone else is going to get hurt by this horse if they aren't very, very careful with where he goes.

Pretty brief post, really, but what would you do, if anything, in this situation? Sharer has not been particularly open to suggestions on the topic when I've breached it before, and owner is still in hospital and will be for some time, but I'm really dreading the next incident that occurs as a result of him.
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My god! I literally don't believe people! so an animal that put his owner in hospital is being sold with no mention of his serious issues?!?! It beggers belief.
 
Legally speaking if the owner sells the horse without full disclosure of it's dangerous past and the horse injures someone then the seller will be liable. They will have knowingly sold a dangerous animal who went on to cause injury.
 
I would advise the owner of the rocky legal situation she will be exposing herself too if horse is later deemed not fit for purpose.
 
This is dreadful. How anyone could do this is beyond me. The woman is in hospital as a result of the horses behaviour problems. She should either advertise it with as truthful account as possible in the hope that an experienced horse person will take it on, or have it put to sleep. I'm sorry, I don't have any good advice really but I feel for you, it's a very difficult situation for you. I hope they see sense and do the right thing.
 
Irish gal said:
Legally speaking if the owner sells the horse without full disclosure of it's dangerous past and the horse injures someone then the seller will be liable. They will have knowingly sold a dangerous animal who went on to cause injury.
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This. I imagine the legal issues they are opening themselves up to is the only way to get through to them.
 
Why don't they just shoot it .
I know that sounds harsh but what if it does it again .
OP I did not follow ( or have forgotten your earlier threads ) but has the horse seen a vet ?
I owned a very field aggressive horse I was ready to PTS when a dealer friend suggested giving regumate ( it was a gelding ) long tale but we did and it fixed the issue completely .he had it all one summer then non from October when he was stabled and hunting with turn out and he was fine and although we had to choose companions carefully for him he was never aggressive towards people again .
 
I knew of two similar situations and the owners only real concern was getting the purchase price back so they could buy another horse. Both lovely ladies and you never would have expected them to have no morals but on the occasion of a horse sale they did not. One horse needed working daily or it would rear, the other attacked several adult liveries, its owner and her small children. Both sold to the first person who wanted to buy. The rearer to a teenager without skill enough to ride it. That horse had been ridden hard for 2hrs, bathed then turned out long before prospective purchasers turned up. The other should have never been sold at all but definitely not to teenagers to be moved to a livery yard with children around. Neither owner mentioned the horses bad points both were sold as allrounders. I was friends with the second owner and suggested she PTS but was met with the response of needing money for a replacement horse. Is this the reason for the horse being sold OP? I could not find a convincing response for needing the money other than doing the right thing which they obviously were not going to do. Even sending to a sale would be better than an advert full of omissions, at least someone at a sale buying a horse without warranty knows they are taking a chance. Maybe you could persuade them to do that for the sake of a quick sale?
 
There are plenty of precendents in law that require a vice such as bucking, biting, kicking ,napping, bolting to be declared at the point of sale. In fact you would be pretty stupid not to disclose it in the advert as you would leave yourself wide open to very expensive legal action if there was an incident, the new owners asked about and they were told there had been previous incidents with the horse. Don't mean you OP mean the owner or his agent. I would be inlcined to report to Trading Standards as the advert is not fully truthful, maybe they will be able to put a shot across the bows of the owner. As for the horse I have bought horses with declared vices such as bucking but would never contemplate one that had double barrelled someone. It shows total disrespect for its handlers. most horses like that have something seriously wrong with them anyway and that goes for the buckers rearers etc too as I have learnt to my cost. Appalling behaviour from the owner/sharer.
 
Having read the other thread, I am shocked someone would sell such a horse on at all much less without fully disclosing its behavioural history.

I would personally not sell a horse like this on even with full disclosure as even if the horse went to experienced hands I would not want to live with the guilt if it hurt someone badly again. You will never have a guarantee with any horse, but why set yourself - or worse yet someone else - up for a known risk with a horse that does have a dangerous history to begin with. It beggars belief.

I think stories such as these highlight the fact that if you are not prepared that horses come with a relatively big likelihood you will have to make unpleasant decisions at some point of ownership you should not enter into it at all. In some cases it is probably caused by so many horses being so easy to come by. Perhaps with bigger initial investments needed a bigger sense of responsibility would follow... but then again you either have a sense of right or wrong or you don't, it would seem, regardless of the "worth" of the animal involved.

I hope for the horse's sake and for everyone who might come into contact with it that the owner/person responsible for it either sees sense and rethinks their decision or, failing that, that it falls into the hands of someone who is prepared to make the call when needed.
 
Could you just warn the owners know that if they sell the horse as an all rounder and anyone gets hurt as a result, then they could well be liable for enormous damages and being sued/possible jail sentence, as he has such a well known track record.

Is it possible to suggest a different route to offload the horse, if not PTS, then maybe an honest ad in Project Horse might be a possibility?
 
This is a dreadful situation. Where in the country are you? I don't think I could stand by and watch, I will say if it was advertised on something like facebook, I would have to comment on the ad saying what the horse was like. As it is known to have put the owner in hospital, she could hardly deny it.
I would definitely try trading standards, and put the word about locally as to what it was like!
 
I am assuming this horse kicked its owner while in the field and she ended up in hospital? Surely its just bad luck she needed to go to hospital? I know several people who'v had horses aim a kick at them which has missed or just caused a bruise, I wudnt say just because a horse kicked out its dangerous. Was it kicking at another horse? Or the owner? (or maybe theres more to this than this post says, I dont know the people/horse concerned) - but I dont think theres a lot you can do, if its the owners horse, and owners advert.
 
my god i recall your previous post! some people are totally disgusting!

I do wonder how they intend of showing the horse to other people if its that dangerous and the owners head has been caved in?

Id like to hope that they'd mention something when people contact for more info!
 
This is what buyers face which is why I say always get a trial at least you have a chance to pick up on things. As for them selling the horse they might tell them whats happened when they come to view?
 
Trading standards won't do anything unless it's a dealer. If private seller they won't do anything as they can't, neither can the charities.
 
stormox said:
I am assuming this horse kicked its owner while in the field and she ended up in hospital? Surely its just bad luck she needed to go to hospital? I know several people who'v had horses aim a kick at them which has missed or just caused a bruise, I wudnt say just because a horse kicked out its dangerous. Was it kicking at another horse? Or the owner? (or maybe theres more to this than this post says, I dont know the people/horse concerned) - but I dont think theres a lot you can do, if its the owners horse, and owners advert.
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There was a post a few weeks ago after it happened and a few beforehand. Said horse had been going for people in the field long before it happened so wasn't a one off accident I don't think. Shame really as I don't believe any horse is born nasty but I think theres just one option in this case :(
 
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