WWYD? Re. dangerous horse for sale...

Difficult situation, I would be tempted to pretend to be interested, ask if it had any vices, then act on the responses, if need be shock the seller by revealing what I knew and threaten them with trading standards, it might just shock them into being honest, I had an enquiry about my young cob, a young lad, swore his grandad (knowledgable) would buy him for the lad, pony sound as a pound, just young, I just said without the parents permission, no way and my cob isn't dangerous
 
This type of thread scares the life out of me as im currently horse shopping. Such a shame people cannot be honest and do the right thing if its called for.
 
I bought a dangerously aggressive horse unknowingly. He had been doped and seemed a super laid back character. Within 24 hours of getting him home he was snaking at me over the gate with ears flat and bared teeth. His behaviour escalated to striking and rearing and kicking. You couldn't enter his stable or field without restraining him first. He had I found out double barrelled a groom previously breaking her arm in 3 places. I was lied to through the teeth by the seller. He's the WB in my siggy pic 17.1hh, so no small challenge. The last thing to be affected in terms of bad behaviour was his ridden work.
I got him Diagnosed with chronic sacro illiac dysfunction 6 months later. He was in constant pain. He's absolutely loving now and being ridden, but it took a long rehab to overcome his mental scars.
Very very rarely are horses aggressive to humans, you may get the odd bolshy horse that has been hand reared or a rare brain tumour, but as my vet advised 99.9% of aggressive horses gave a hidden problem and pain.
Horses being flight animals don't waste energy on aggression to people. I was wrongly told too often by so called knowledgeable friends that my horse was just a rotten nasty character, when infact he was screaming that something was wrong.
The owner should either spend the necessary money and time and emotion to get to the bottom of the horses problems or pts. You do not sell a horse like this.
 
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stormox said:
I am assuming this horse kicked its owner while in the field and she ended up in hospital? Surely its just bad luck she needed to go to hospital? I know several people who'v had horses aim a kick at them which has missed or just caused a bruise, I wudnt say just because a horse kicked out its dangerous. Was it kicking at another horse? Or the owner? (or maybe theres more to this than this post says, I dont know the people/horse concerned) - but I dont think theres a lot you can do, if its the owners horse, and owners advert.
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If you read the OPs other thread you will see this isn't an unfortunate kick in a field. This horse is out and out aggressive towards people and intends harm.
 
Op I notice you are in Cheshire? I have a feeling I know the horse in question. There's an ad on a website at the moment for a gelding which I am sure was on a yard next door to me and had known aggression issues and that's why he was sold. He's quite an unusual breed and the name matches up - it might not even be the same horse as you are posting about (although worrying if there's more than one dangerous horse being sold and not described as such!).
 
What I would suggest is that they get an animal behaviourist to have a look - a Richard Maxwell or Kelly Marks type person - who has probably come across this sort of behaviour before and find out if it is fixable whether due to health or personality
issues. If they don't wish to go to this expense, or have not got the money, then the sensible thing to do is either give it away as a project with suitable warnings, or PTS. But they are trying to salvage a bit of money ......................
 
I'm not sure but in this case if it is a private sale there is no Sale of Goods act cover for the buyer and it may be a case of caveat emptor.
Unless the prospective buyers specifically ask about behavioural issues and are subsequently lied to and can prove it, I'm not sure they would have a case to bring.
 
muckypony said:
Normally I'm one to keep my mouth closed and not say anything but this situation is ludicrous. I really think that either you or the YO need to have a serious talk with sharer AND owner (in hospital or not, she must have okay'd this sale so needs to take responsibility). If they are going to be honest when face-to-face with sellers then fine, but if they intend on selling dishonestly then I would be very direct about the fact that this horse could kill someone and that they will be liable due to recent happenings. I would also be telling them that if they do not say something to prospective buyers, I will.

I'm not sure what is wrong with some people, do they have no morals!?
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You've hit the nail on the head Muckypony "they have NO morals"
 
Sorry for the delay in reply; only just got back on the laptop.

Thank you all for the advice, and I shall try to address the questions I've seen.

Goldenstar - He hasn't seen a vet in relation to his aggression, no, but has been kept under a meticulous schedule since he's been here with regular checks and nothing has been pointed out that might suggest a problem. He's also been kept alone for the most part. Shared a field with a mare for a month, then started sharing with Obie at the start of the year. Companions don't seem to make a difference in his behavior.

Firefly - Well, she won't be buying a horse anytime soon, but it does sound like she doesn't want to lose out on the money she's spent on him. But also because no one will handle the horse now, I think.

Stormox - I understand completely that accidents happen, but this was a deliberate attack on his owner, who was in the field to search for a fly rug so wasn't actually trying to handle him in any way at the time. It is not the first time he has double barreled someone in the field, though at the time everyone assumed it was an accident, and he had been displaying very aggressive behavior to anyone that entered the field for several months.


Unfortunately after a brief message is does appear to be the same horse as dancingkris mentioned. So it appears that he has a fairly long history of this type of behavior, though I don't currently know if they purchased him knowing about it.

From an off-hand comment at the yard today, it was revealed that the sharer is now too scared to enter the field to fill up his water. She tried to do so a few days ago and had to make a hasty exit. She was, until then, proclaiming him innocent, so I almost hope that was an eye-opener for her. It leaves 0 people who will handle him now.

In even better news, and please note the sarcasm here, the yard's wannabe-producer is thinking of taking him on for a quick turnaround. Apparently she's hoping to add another 1k to his value by doing a little more with him here and then sell him on again, apparently with no mention of his history (as that isn't anyone's business).

It's a ridiculous ring of lies, and someone else will most definitely end up hurt at this rate. I do apologize if I seem a little sour, but I almost cannot believe people. :/
 
Sorry OP- I didnt read the post about this horse before, but it does sound like hes truly aggressive. Is he like it if hes in a stable? How old is he? I have known 2 horses that have been truly aggressive in this kind of way- both were hand-reared, and the aggression got worse as they got older, no matter how firmly and knowledgeably they were handled. One was actually a brilliant hunt horse and because he did his job so well the hunt put up with his quirks. The other was also fine to ride, but dangerous to anyone on the ground. He would attack people walking whilst he was being ridden, I think he was sent to a low class sale....
 
I cannot believe anyone would try to sell him without making it very clear in the advert that he is dangerous. its a shame there is not a crime along the lines of manslaughter against actions that are likely to kill or badly injure someone. so people knowingly doing things like selling seriously dangerous animals (not just horses) drink or dangerous driving would have a minimum sentence set by law and I am not thinking 9 months and out again :(
 
Can I just add OP that my aggressive horse flew through a 5 stage vetting, just because the horse doesn't appear lame does not mean it doesn't have bleeding ulcers or kissing spine or a sacro illiac problem or anything else that is not obviously discernible. Common sense has to prevail to question just why would a horse behave like this? Has a bute trial been conducted over an extended period? I really dislike reading that a vet has not been involved - why ever not? That would be my first port of call.
 
YasandCrystal said:
Can I just add OP that my aggressive horse flew through a 5 stage vetting, just because the horse doesn't appear lame does not mean it doesn't have bleeding ulcers or kissing spine or a sacro illiac problem or anything else that is not obviously discernible. Common sense has to prevail to question just why would a horse behave like this? Has a bute trial been conducted over an extended period? I really dislike reading that a vet has not been involved - why ever not? That would be my first port of call.
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Check out OP's original thread, all these points have been discussed. Owner [now hospitalised by horse attack] now wants rid, will not investigate or pts, wants to make as much as she can regardless of the consequence, which could include fatal injuries..

I think we can all just hope no one buys it, the yard wannabe producer will almost certainly find that she knows less than she thinks. No one with integrity would want to get involved, I have walked away from something a lot less life threatening, when I discovered the owner intended to advertise it as a child's pony, it was rather headstrong, and could not be shod, a 13.2 highland which no one bothered to tell me about before I jumped on, they were happy to let any random person ride it, it would have been fine in the right hands, but never a child's pony.
 
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Not really sure about what he's like in a stable. I've brought him in a few times but never had to do anything whilst he was in there. He didn't like interference when he was in, and has never been one for a fuss, but that's about all I know. He's 12, I believe.

YasandCrystal - I am well aware that there are things that may not have been picked up, and if he were mine, I would have had these things checked for, and more. All I was saying was that he's had very thorough veterinary care and checks throughout his time with them, and they've not picked up anything noticable. However, he is not. I don't know whether a bute trial has been conducted, but I expect not. They seemed rather dismissive over his behavior to begin with, and up until the other day his sharer was still acting as though he was an innocent bystander, so I doubt they've investigated it at all as they didn't believe there was a problem.
 
Wow, this is all so sad. It sounds like the poor horse is out of his mind with pain or brain issues, and it looks like he might not even be getting basic care from his owner/sharer now re. water? Surely she could take a helper with a lunge whip to keep him off while the trough is filled at least?
If they're not going to do right by him and find a diagnosis, then PTS would be infinitely preferable to an unsuspecting buyer for this poor, angry soul.
 
So he has history, they could be had in future as selling him knowingly not fit for purpose and that's if he doesn't hurt anyone! It is wrong to say that as a private sale the buyer has no come back as there have been several court situations on this forum alone.

In the meantime I would certainly make sure I told anyone who owned any sites he is advertised on that he is misrepresented. Though not sure how they will sell him if no one will handle him!
 
Itsgoing to be very difficult when the owner is in hospital and the sharer wont touch the horse to show him to anyone. Have they arranged for someone to answer phone/arrange viewings etc? If so maybe you could have a word with this person. I wouldnt want to be involved with selling a horse like this on behalf of a third party.
 
I am surmising, but someone must be making arrangements, that person must be willing to handle it and present it and accept the questions any buyer well ask, that person will be getting a payment for her services, and is acting as a professional, so the buyer has some comeback, but I don't think anyone will want it, esp if they are on HHO forum regularly and pick up on these, well, scams.
 
If the owner has him insured then it would be very likely that the vets would sanction pts under BEVA guidelines with this extreme behaviour.
 
Hi having followed your previous thread am amazed but unfortunately not surprised this horse is up for sale with no mentione of his history. I had a similar situation a couple of years ago with a rescue dog. He was advertised as lovely manner good with children etc. Shortly after we got him he started showing aggressive behaviour with other dogs and then started this behaviour with my young children. He was promptly despatched back to the rescue charity with instructions that he needs to go to experienced dog handlers with grown up children and no other dogs. I was then shocked to see him advertised for rehoming on their Facebook page as fine with dogs and young children. I was fuming so promptly put a comment on their post detailing his behaviour. This was quickly deleted by the charity but not before it was seen by a few people and one lady actually messaged me to thank me for the warning as she was considering him but had young children. I couldn't do any more to warn people as the charity blocked me from their page but at least I warned a few people. I then found out later he had gone to a family with young children. I don't know if this horse is advertised on facebook and no good if elsewhere but thought it might help.
 
Havent followed anything about this horse. I once bought a horse and had it for about 2 years and then sold it on as it was far too slow and ploddy for me. Someone from the yard it originally came fromsubsequently told me it had kicked three people on the yard and thats why the owner had sold it. It had never raised a foot at me and I used to spend ages with my head round its back legs treating mites!
 
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Snuffles said:
Havent followed anything about this horse. I once bought a horse and had it for about 2 years and then sold it on as it was far too slow and ploddy for me. Someone from the yard it originally came fromsubsequently told me it had kicked three people on the yard and thats why the owner had sold it. It had never raised a foot at me and I used to spend ages with my head round its back legs treating mites!
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You really need to read the OP's other post about this horse. It certainly doesn't sound like one that's just being a bolshy a**e
 
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