WWYD schoolmaster allrounder vs potential dream horse?

FestiveFuzz

FestiveFuzz

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So I think I'm about to do something crazy...a dressage mare has come up for sale that's way below my budget but has great breeding and masses of potential. In fact if she weren't so green I would say I wouldn't even be able to entertain buying her. The trouble is I go away for a week on Friday and she's 5 hours away so no hope of viewing before I leave.

I'm moving to a dressage specific yard at the end of the month. The YO trains with Carl Hester and is available for lessons at weekends. She's even gone as far as to say if she's going to comps and there's space on the box we can tag along. Knowing that I have incredibly knowledgeable and experienced support behind me has made me seriously entertain the idea of potentially buying unseen and using the money I save on buying her to put her on full livery for 6 months and have her ridden by the yard to really make sure she's established. She would obviously be vetted before purchase.

On paper she's a risk, but the potential reward is I end up with an amazing mare that I can affiliate at a reasonably high level...a dream that I never thought were attainable until now.

On the flip side there's a gelding I'm meant to be viewing before I go away. He's an older been there done that type that would easily be the sort I can just crack on and have fun with. He's nowhere near as flashy but he knows his job and I wouldn't have to worry about unknowns aside from the usual things that come about with owning a horse in its older years.

He's totally the safe option on paper but there's a real possibility I would be bored keeping within my comfort zone and if I did want to later sell him on and get something more dressage specific I need to be mindful of his age.

So what do I do? I turn 29 in a couple of weeks and OH and I have been having chats about our future and how we see ourselves with kids in the next 3 years. So the way I see it this is my last chance to be selfish about things and really progress my riding for a long while so I'm kinda leaning towards the mare but I've never bought unseen and am terrified I'll hate what comes off the lorry.
 
Hmmm, I would never buy unseen without a personal recommendation. They all look fantastic on the advert!

Plus, kids in 3 years may lean me towards the older one, but not if I were to see him as the "consolation prize" as that would not be fair on him.

If you are so adamant about the mare I would cancel viewing the gelding and go and see her instead. Or, view the gelding and see if you fall in love, and if you do not pay your YO to go view the mare while you are away.
 
I wouldn't buy unseen personally, is there any way you could arrange for someone to go and see her that you trust, and pay for their time? Could this YO see her?

I'm in a similar position to you so I can't advise as I haven't made a decision yet!
 
Thanks both. My current trainer, YO and I have watched multiple videos of her and she doesn't seem at all sharp, though if she did turn out to be not to my liking we would continue down the route of 6 months on full livery and then look to sell. But that's really worse case scenario as I'm hoping she'll be my forever horse. I did worry that I may not be capable of bringing something like her on but my trainer seemed confident in my abilities and the new YO has said her grooms would be on hand to help.

I would absolutely love to view her before I go away but with work commitments and the time we leave on Friday it's just not possible to get there and back in time.

The older horse is just down the road which does make life a little easier all round. He certainly wouldn't be a consolation prize if I went for him. Just torn between my head and heart right now.

ETA: YO is away this weekend and current trainer has just had an op and is unable to ride for another fortnight so there's no one I'd immediately trust to ride on my behalf with my capabilities in mind annoyingly.
 
I have bought unseen a few times. With youngsters it is easier but I have bought 2 ridden animals unseen. One was a schoolmaster LR Show pony who had a proven track record as a L.R/F.R, the other was an ex-racehorse for my eldest daughter, both vetted, both worked out fine, in fact the TB is my daughter's horse of a lifetime so I would buy unseen again if the need arose. If your trainer seems happy with the horse and you are a confident rider I don't see a massive issue. One caveat is I always worry if they seem 'too cheap' and if alarm bells were ringing about the price I would definitely want to view before buying.

In your position I would go and try the horse down the road before making a decision as you may love him and that will make life easier!
 
I have no idea of your budget but the "dream horse" may have something wrong with it if it is so perfect and talented yet so well below you can factor in 6 months livery, even with prices being low generally a young, well bred mare with dressage breeding, talent, paces etc will usually still sell for a decent price, I certainly would not recommend buying unseen but would possibly consider if your YO or trainer did the trial, she passed a 5 stage but it is still a huge risk, videos can easily be edited to miss out any bad moments.

I think if it is meant to be your horse she will still be there when you can work something out, obviously that may be because no one else likes her for some reason but that does not mean you will not.
 
Thanks. She's not horrendously cheap...just cheaper than I'd have expected with her breeding. YO suspects this is because she's quite small for her breed.

I have until Friday to make a decision either way so will go view the gelding and go from there.
 
I wouldn't because I am quite risk adverse generally! Only way I would buy unseen was if someone I trusted had tried her. However if you do go ahead get it in writing that she had no vices, good in traffic, hacks out, loads etc etc. All these questions via email so you have a paper trail. Also with your six months livery would the owner be riding or grooms who will not bring on your house as well as the owner?
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
be positive said:
I have no idea of your budget but the "dream horse" may have something wrong with it if it is so perfect and talented yet so well below you can factor in 6 months livery, even with prices being low generally a young, well bred mare with dressage breeding, talent, paces etc will usually still sell for a decent price, I certainly would not recommend buying unseen but would possibly consider if your YO or trainer did the trial, she passed a 5 stage but it is still a huge risk, videos can easily be edited to miss out any bad moments.

I think if it is meant to be your horse she will still be there when you can work something out, obviously that may be because no one else likes her for some reason but that does not mean you will not.
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My budget is up to about £7k but can stretch more if needed. She is half this price. I by no means think she is perfect...she's green for her age, unproven and would need a fair amount of groundwork to get her better to the contact and stronger over her back but I've known others with her breeding that have on the whole been lovely "people" so I'm hoping she would be similar which is why I'm considering her.

Full livery would only be £20 a week more than my current livery and was something I was toying with no matter who my next horse is so I don't really see this as an issue either way. Just nice that I have the option if I do need additional support.
 
Neither tbh. In those circumstances I'd be looking for something reasonably safe and easy to enjoy, the mare sounds like work and danger, lol. Potentially very rewarding but if you're looking at having a family and your horse isn't going to be the be all and end all, "challenging" often just becomes a PITA. If the gelding doesn't do it for you, pass on him too. There will be a nice riding horse who you can train up and have success with in dressage, without asking for a world of pressure, danger and hard work on yourself
 
If I felt strongly the mare was the one, I would find a way to get there to see her. Did exactly that with a horse which was 8 hours away. Did it in one day by myself. She was my dream horse as it turned out, and vastly under priced.
 
I'd find a way to see the mare, otherwise i'd always wonder what if. . .

We drove 4.5 hours to view the mare i have now, i knew as soon as i'd seen her advert that i'd have her but not sure i would have bought unseen that just wasn't a consideration, we drove up early one friday tried her and looked at a couple of others then stayed overnight with a friend about an hour away then drove home the next day.
 
After seeing lots of big moving flashy horses that don't have the attitude to a decent prelim with there owners, I would be more concerned about attitude rather than potential. If your aspirations are PSG fair enough you need something that moves beautifully but otherwise, ride abilty is very important and you need to see the horse to assess that.
 
is there someone on here possibly who is a dressagy type person that is close and could do a quick ride for you (preferably an hour or 2 before she is vetted so that any drugs would show in a blood test) so you would at least know that side of things was ok? it need not be a how good is she type ride just is she sane and does she feel as if her feet will stay on the ground rather than fly through the air at a great speed :D
 
I'd go for the mare (subject to vetting) - as you said if you don't like/get along with her the yard and you can bring her on over the next 6 months and potentially make money.

It probably would concern me buying unseen but if your v.experience YO and trainer think she is worth a punt then :)
 
Have you spoken to the sellers OP? If they feel she would find a lovely home with you they may hold on to her until you're back, it's worth an ask.

You are having her vetted and do have a back plan, so that would sway me to say go for it!
 
Given that you have very clear future plans I would go and view the gelding anyway but either A) find some way to view the mare yourself or B) find someone experienced in dressage to view her either on here or even pay a reputable dealer to try her for you and record the whole viewing so you can see for youself
 
Depending on exactly what her breeding is, small or not, that seems much too cheap for a dressage bred mare who moves well, is a nice person, doesn't have anything wrong with her, and has been started. On that basis I would be very wary of buying unseen, unless you think the seller really doesn't know what they've got. It will have cost more than that to get her on the ground as a foal. If you really are keen, I would say either find a way of seeing her before you go away (call in sick if you really have to) or book a viewing for when you get back and accept the risk that she might sell in the meantime.

If you haven't had a youngster before, don't underestimate the emotional and training effort involved, and the ups and downs. I bought mine as a just backed 3yo and he's now rising 5. Like you, my trainer and YO both said my riding was up to it, and I wouldn't have contemplated it without lots of experienced support around me. I was lucky, I knew my boy fairly well before I bought him, had been around him since a 2yo, before he was gelded, was around to see how he responded to the whole starting process, and tried him a month after he was first ridden before deciding to buy. He is utterly angelic (mostly) but nonetheless it's been, and still is, a bit of a rollercoaster, and I wouldn't have wanted to be doing it if I wasn't really confident before I started that this is the right horse for me.

Very best of luck, whatever you decide to do.
 
What level are you hoping to compete at and is it the training or the possibility of winning that most interests you?

Most horses should be capable of doing a medium level test - not saying that they will get a good score but that you could ride the movements.

If you really are planning on starting a family in three years time then you will be lucky to find enough time to get dressed let alone compete!

Not saying that your trainer/YO is like this but I have certainly known more than one who has encouraged some-one to buy a horse based on the fact that it is one that they would like the ride on.

If I was in your position I would go with the safe horse that is more likely to fit in with your future life style but then I am not very competitive.
 
I'd go for the mare - but I always buy younger horses who I can bring on myself. I enjoy this - previous horses were all bought as 4/5 year olds who were broken and had basic flatwork. I have learnt that it is much easier to buy a young horse who naturally carries his head in a lower position, trying to correct a horse who carries his head high is a long struggle to correct!

OP, forget about dressage for a minute. What aspects of riding do you enjoy?
Do you like bringing on & teaching horse yourself, and not as bothered with competing?If so I'd go for the mare & get someone close to ride it for you, is PS or Nicky near by? They have a great eye for a horse and can see their potential well :)

If you prefer to compete and want to get out there straight away, then go for the schoolmaster. What level is he at as a schoolmaster?
Tbh, from what you describe him as I'd be bored unless he was sharper lol. Just because he is closer doesn't mean he is better!
 
I'm also leaning towards go for it with the mare, you have the money and back-up plus I'm a bit implusive too.

I drove on my own a 500 mile round journey to pick up a scrappy 2 year old that was advertised on preloved and was being auctioned off on a facebook auction page for a pittance, I haven't regretted a single moment :D. I knew from the picture I wanted her, I had seen a couple of other horses which should have been 'perfect' but just didn't get me like she did just from an advert. She was pretty un-handled yet loaded and travelled back like a lamb, I still think it was meant to be :).
 
I would be happy to buy unseen, though I would try and find someone local to go and at least see her in the flesh.

My concern would be that she seems ever so cheap for what you describe, big warning sign for me tbh.

If you have the money to loose, or at least pay for training/schooling then go for it :)
 
I do this, get all excited over something and I must have it now! Don't do it.. wait the week until you are back. If she is still for sale go see her and try her. You need to be able to get a feel for if you will get on with her or not. If she is sold, fab, decision made.

As for the having kids in 3 years, bear in mind when you get back into riding, you may be looking for something that will not ditch you straight away! Having a baby does change you, all your ligaments and muscles need time to get back to where they were, you will be knackered a lot and sometimes you get a greater sense of self preservance as you need to be there for the baby. I got back on my boy within 6 weeks of a traumatic labour, he is forward and sensitive, however he is a good lad and has no badness in him. I was scared to get back on, but once on he made me feel safe. My point being - after kids you might need a horse you can feel safe on ( which doesn't mean a plod!) but a horse who can not only cope with the time off, but also look after/put up with you for a wee while till you get back to your old self.
 
Thanks for all your thoughts.

I've spoken to the owner at length but get the feeling they won't hold her for a week as they need her stable and there's unsurprisingly been plenty of interest.

I thought she was cheap for what she is but YO thinks she's not given her size and the fact she's unproven for her age (she's 7yo).

It's so hard to know what to do.
 
Why hasn't anyone done anything with her up till now? Has she had a foal, or is there a reason why she isn't further on in her training?
 
I thought she was younger, if she is small, 7 and very green then she is priced to sell, certainly not a bargain price as someone wanting to compete, move up the levels is going to be playing catch up to an extent, is there a genuine sounding reason for her being so behind, most dressage bred, produced, horses will be playing at med level by her age not still being established with the basics.

She may appear cheap to you because she is 2-3 years behind in her training, long term it will not be an issue if you keep her forever but will mean a quick turnaround if she is not for you may be more tricky as people will want to know what she did from 4-7 years and it can ring alarm bells if the reason does not sound genuine.
 
The previous owner had health issues apparently so the horse has taken a back seat. The breeder took her back with the intention of bringing her on but now needs to sell due to what seems to be a fairly valid reason.

In honesty as much as I would like to take a punt on her I think there are too many question marks that will go unanswered without viewing. I would say maybe she'll still be available by the time I'm back from holiday but if she is I'd be seriously questioning why no one had snapped her up earlier.
 
Normally would advise against buying unseen but in your situation you have the support network in place and a plan for if things don't work out so if your hearts set on taking that gamble if she's as she seems it will probably pay off. Would still advise a vetting though.
 
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