WWYD - Unhappy with vet service

Barklands said:
Where did I say I am prolonging with second opinions or bill disputes? Another poster suggested getting a second opinion, I explained I wouldn’t be doing so as it will not change the outcome and the decision to PTS has been made. I feel they should cover the cost after the event but prolonging to cover a bill is certainly not how I am approaching the situation. Unfortunately for the vets, I am not a layman.
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I'm not sure I'd be looking at them to cover costs. But I'd certainly expect a response to any complaints with them, taking on board your concerns and and general unhappiness at the service.
 
TheMule said:
This is a very sensible post.
Unfortunately vets aren’t there to provide a telephone advisory service- I'd be very cross if they had refused a visit, but beyond that, I don’t think there is grounds for complaint.
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I have to disagree. I know that I can always call my vet if I'm worried. During a recent ongoing illness my vet was going on holiday and so a cover vet would be taking over. My vet told me that if I had any concerns I could text him.
 
Chianti said:
I have to disagree. I know that I can always call my vet if I'm worried. During a recent ongoing illness my vet was going on holiday and so a cover vet would be taking over. My vet told me that if I had any concerns I could text him.
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And that is a kindness that can be very, very useful, I do understand that! But it isn’t possible or sustainable for many vets and it isn’t how to make a business actually pay people's wages.
It does sound like there is a cause for a complaint here due to poor communication, but picking up the phone and booking an appointment is the owner's responsibility alone
 
Barklands said:
I don't know if this is just due to the emotions of being due to lose horse to laminitis (as referred to in another recent post) but the more I think about our situation, the more frustrated I am with the vet service we have had.

We are registered with the "best" vets in the area and before Christmas last year my mare came down with severe laminitis. We had the vets out straightaway who advised bloods for EMS and Cushings, both of which came back negative. We had vets back out a week later and she was still in a lot of pain. We had full bloods run and a urine test (due to some other symptoms), all of which came back negative. She would improve then drop back when lowering her bute from 2 to 1 a day. We would regularly call the vets and ask for more bute but for over a month I was unable to actually speak to a vet myself to understand if her progress was normal or not. It turns out the vet tried to call me three weeks ago but I was in a meeting and they made no effort to call back, so was unaware that they had tried.

I became increasingly frustrated at lack of contact and over a week ago I was at the end of my tether and went in to speak to them. Finally I had a call back from the vet who explained she wasn't happy with progress and that there is an additional EMS test that they could run and a drug they could give to stop the insulin. Fast forward to yesterday, the vet attended, lifted up the foot and the mare has had catastrophic rotation and a very poor prognosis meaning we are at the end of the road and she is to be PTS this week. She is a young, otherwise fit horse and we followed the vet's instructions to the letter. I am not frustrated with the actual vet but feel that overall the practice completely dropped the ball. I had no idea there was an additional test that could have been done and drugs that she could have been given to lower the sugars in the body. Maybe the outcome would not have been different but she was not even given a chance. As an owner who has never had to deal with such severe laminitis, I had no idea of what timescales were normal and every time called felt like they were just trying to get me off the phone as quickly as possible.

To clarify, I was not given the opportunity to speak directly to a vet from end of December to three weeks ago when I missed their call. It was a further two weeks (plus me going in person to the practice) to actually speak to the vet. I am aware that they have difficult workloads and didn't want to be pushy but is this normal??

If you were in my position would you raise this? I am awaiting my final bill from the visit yesterday and paying it will really stick in my throat.
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This is so sad. It sounds like very poor practise from the vet. Losing a horse is bad enough but it's always worse if you have the 'what ifs' going through your mind. I think you should complain but I very much doubt if it will have any positive outcomes for you. Over the years I've used several vet practices and have had to make complaints against two of them. The first, like yours, was seen as one of the best in the area. I had, what I thought, was very poor service from the vet and also the vet's admin team. After I complained I got an email from the practice manager to say that she knew the vet had apologized so that was the end of the matter. In the second case it was one of the partners who I'd booked for a visit and who, on the day, basically didn't want to attend. On that occasion I got a reply from the receptionist! You could complain to the RCVS but again they seem to be more concerned with protecting vets than the customers. I really hope that you can find some peace in all this.
 
Over 20 yrs ago, I lost a 6 yr old Shire mare to founder. The vet had been involved for 3 months and tbf, we saw him frequently. My farrier always blamed the vet for our loss. I didn't complain but have never used the practice again. I occasionally see them recommended on here and have been known to send a PM or 2.
I doubt tbh that you will get anywhere making a complaint and am absolutely certain that you won't get a reduction of fees from them.
Actually what you said about the false sole just reminded me of how dismissive the vet was when my mare had similar. But knowledge and treatments have moved on considerably over the last 20 yrs and I do think your vet should have suggested the EMS test/treatment much earlier.
However, I would write a formal complaint and then whatever the outcome put your energy into coming to terms with your loss and moving on as best you can.
 
Firstly, remember that even with more interventions etc your mare may still have ended up where she is now, so please be kind to yourself.
I'd structure this as feedback to the vets rather than a complaint. Purely because I did so once and got a very positive response. I think people don't get quite as defensive when you share feedback, even though I know it's a terrible corporate term. Good luck and I agree PTS is the kindest thing now, I'm so sorry.
 
I have spoken to vet this morning and her final EMS test was completely normal, meaning she is a completely atypical case, and while I feel the communication in the practice was very poor, it is evident now that this would not have changed the outcome. There is clearly some serious internal issue which we will never get to the bottom of. It may also explain why she was so up and down which was very difficult as an owner to know whether her progress was adequate. Once she is gone I will consider whether I want to give some feedback or just simply move on from the whole thing.
 
Barklands said:
I was advised against padding the feet and that her small flake shavings would ball in her feet. The false sole has completely come away from her off fore and she has a terrible abscess and as such the vet believes she will not likely not recover, she was not x-rayed on Monday but vet suspects pedal bone is about to penetrate. She is not insured either as she was a project that ended up staying, frustratingly I was planning to arrange insurance for her and as such I am not sure I would have the budget to put her through very intense treatment that she would now require given the significance of her rotation. In addition, she is in a lot of pain and her heart rate is high, suggesting she isn't really coping. The thought of her being cooped up for several more months with no guarantees is an uncomfortable one with me. I think even with a second opinion to PTS is the kindest thing at this stage.
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Very sad and terrible, but I agree. I really feel for you.
 
This is so sad and I'm so sorry. When my horse had a catastrophic illness one evening and was referred to the local big university hospital, my own vet called me at the end of her night shift the following morning just to ask what the latest was and check in on him (and me), even though the horse was no longer under her care. I'm very grateful my vets have always shown such personal care for their patients despite being quite a large practice. I would personally consider acute laminitis to be a critical condition and my vet would be checking in with me daily (and vice versa). I've never struggled to get hold of them, and have had similar situations with colic where they've given me their mobile number so I could call and discuss what was going on post-visit and give me advice while I was monitoring them. I will say while the vets themselves are brilliant, their reception service can be a bit hit & miss. As you were speaking to the practice and not the vets directly, I wonder if their downfall was actually poor admin? In that case I would absolutely feedback to them your experience, as the vets themselves might be disappointed to hear about your difficulties getting hold of them.
 
KikiDee said:
This is so sad and I'm so sorry. When my horse had a catastrophic illness one evening and was referred to the local big university hospital, my own vet called me at the end of her night shift the following morning just to ask what the latest was and check in on him (and me), even though the horse was no longer under her care. I'm very grateful my vets have always shown such personal care for their patients despite being quite a large practice. I would personally consider acute laminitis to be a critical condition and my vet would be checking in with me daily (and vice versa). I've never struggled to get hold of them, and have had similar situations with colic where they've given me their mobile number so I could call and discuss what was going on post-visit and give me advice while I was monitoring them. I will say while the vets themselves are brilliant, their reception service can be a bit hit & miss. As you were speaking to the practice and not the vets directly, I wonder if their downfall was actually poor admin? In that case I would absolutely feedback to them your experience, as the vets themselves might be disappointed to hear about your difficulties getting hold of them.
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Yes I suspect that it is the messages I was giving to reception were not being relayed to the vet, therefore I’m not sure they had a handle on the situation. I very much like both vets who I dealt with, it was the practice rather than the individuals I feel.
 
KikiDee said:
This is so sad and I'm so sorry. When my horse had a catastrophic illness one evening and was referred to the local big university hospital, my own vet called me at the end of her night shift the following morning just to ask what the latest was and check in on him (and me), even though the horse was no longer under her care. I'm very grateful my vets have always shown such personal care for their patients despite being quite a large practice. I would personally consider acute laminitis to be a critical condition and my vet would be checking in with me daily (and vice versa). I've never struggled to get hold of them, and have had similar situations with colic where they've given me their mobile number so I could call and discuss what was going on post-visit and give me advice while I was monitoring them. I will say while the vets themselves are brilliant, their reception service can be a bit hit & miss. As you were speaking to the practice and not the vets directly, I wonder if their downfall was actually poor admin? In that case I would absolutely feedback to them your experience, as the vets themselves might be disappointed to hear about your difficulties getting hold of them.
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This was my gut feeling when reading your posts OP. It sounds like the receptionists are behaving a bit like the GP receptions rather than relaying details to the vets correctly. This would be something I think the practise manager would be interested to hear about as it could easily give the practise a bad rep.
 
That is absolutely appalling service from the vet practice. I am so sorry you've had to go through this - not being able to speak with your vet for so long is unacceptable. I have my vet's personal number for any urgent or acute issues and most of the vet practices in my area operate similarly.

I would absolutely give clear feedback to the practice manager and I would also make sure this got to the vets. They should be taking steps to ensure this can't happen again.

Hugs from over here.
 
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AmyMay Again said:
I'm not sure I'd be looking at them to cover costs. But I'd certainly expect a response to any complaints with them, taking on board your concerns and and general unhappiness at the service.
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Well, many years ago I did receive a formal (telephone, not written) apology from a senior partner, and negation of entire bill, following loss of a beloved, homebred, laminitic; but their inappropriate veterinary response was far more obvious than OP’s case, altho (similarly) I did not appreciate sufficiently to challenge at the time.
One unfortunately learns a lot from these situations.
Hopefully OP’s practice can significantly improve their own feedback, communications and updates once the issues are clearly spelled out.
Glad there will be prompt resolution for the mare, anyway.
 
I am very sorry for your loss. I think navigating processes can be very hard, particularly if you've experienced different processes in the past.

I think some vets go above and beyond and are very accessible - responding to messages, texts, emails etc. But others just can't or don't work that way and you need to actually book an appointment or a consultation call. If that is the case though, that absoutely should have been made clear by the vet receptionists. If you are asking 'does this need another visit', the answer needs to be clear:

* I can't advise on that myself but if you are concerned I can make you an appointment
OR
* I can't advise on that myself but I can speak to a vet and ask him/her to ring you to discuss (with or without a charge for that)
OR
* I can see you have been using Bute for x weeks with no improvement so yes I think that needs a follow up now.

Not just leaving you hanging for weeks.

And if you were told a vet would call you, the vet needed to call you.

I hope you can take some comfort on the fact that this outcome was tragically inevitable and there is nothing that you or they did or did not do that would have made a difference. Please be kind to yourself.

X
 
Surbie said:
That is absolutely appalling service from the vet practice. I am so sorry you've had to go through this - not being able to speak with your vet for so long is unacceptable. I have my vet's personal number for any urgent or acute issues and most of the vet practices in my area operate similarly.

I would absolutely give clear feedback to the practice manager and I would also make sure this got to the vets. They should be taking steps to ensure this can't happen again.

Hugs from over here.
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Thank you. Yes this is what I understand to be the case with many other vet practices. In contrast, where my vet has previously had to ring from their direct line rather than the practice itself it is a hidden number so calls cannot be returned. Whilst I completely appreciate the vets do not want to be bombarded on personal time, I think there certainly needs to be a balance.
 
Barklands said:
I have spoken to vet this morning and her final EMS test was completely normal, meaning she is a completely atypical case, and while I feel the communication in the practice was very poor, it is evident now that this would not have changed the outcome. There is clearly some serious internal issue which we will never get to the bottom of. It may also explain why she was so up and down which was very difficult as an owner to know whether her progress was adequate. Once she is gone I will consider whether I want to give some feedback or just simply move on from the whole thing.
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‘Good’, as in, give you more peace of mind.
Did you ever pinpoint the initial trigger in her case? Might help you come to terms with what’s happened. Take care.
 
As you say, it sounds as though there was something else going on, that it was a symptom of an internal problem rather then a "feet" problem. But I can understand why you feel unhappy. Having turned up with normal for the blood tests, the vets might have thought it was something else and investigated more.

However, poor horse was really poorly and it probably wouldn't have altered the outcome.

Very sorry.
 
I am very sorry to hear about your mare and all you are going through. Sadly even with perfect communication and treatment (which you don't appear to have had) the horse cannot be saved.

Some years ago I raised a complaint/feedback to my then vet practice following the death of my horse. Like Exasperated, I got a verbal apology from the senior vet (not surprisingly they were not prepared to do it in writing). I didn't ask for and wasn't offered any sort of refund.
 
Exasperated said:
‘Good’, as in, give you more peace of mind.
Did you ever pinpoint the initial trigger in her case? Might help you come to terms with what’s happened. Take care.
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Unfortunately we were not able to pin point. She was living out with a small pony was is a typical laminitis risk but she was fine yet the big mare suddenly came down it. I don’t think we will ever know the trigger or cause.

I am relieved that the EMS came back normal as it is clear she has some serious underlying condition.

Thank you.
 
Barklands said:
Yes I suspect that it is the messages I was giving to reception were not being relayed to the vet, therefore I’m not sure they had a handle on the situation. I very much like both vets who I dealt with, it was the practice rather than the individuals I feel.
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Even though the outcome wouldn't have changed i would feed back. A very poorly horse should have regular communication between vet & owner even if that is the vet asking for an email update or leaving you a message.

I've found particularly with laminitis the vets generally touch base because horses can go downhill so quickly and owners might need that gentle nudge to call time and not carry on with a horse in pain. I had a call back the following day, the day the bloods came through and a week later just for a minor case.

Very sorry this has happened xxx
 
Barklands said:
Unfortunately we were not able to pin point. She was living out with a small pony was is a typical laminitis risk but she was fine yet the big mare suddenly came down it. I don’t think we will ever know the trigger or cause.

I am relieved that the EMS came back normal as it is clear she has some serious underlying condition.

Thank you.
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That’s a shame, as I think it might be easier for you to process, differential causes do affect the laminitic response (and to some extent, treatment).
Over decades, we’ve had 3 ‘atypical’ and fatal cases; one following unprecedented and intense fireworks display; one following what vets believed exposure to some toxin (altho never isolated what); and one following Moxidectin wormer (when that was first introduced in UK).
I also knew a TB who completely freaked out at RAF low flying practise jets during first Gulf war, all four pedal bones sunk and dropped through his soles within 48 hours, never seen anything like it.
You’re doing the right thing with your mare, look after yourself, too.
 
Barklands said:
I was advised against padding the feet and that her small flake shavings would ball in her feet. The false sole has completely come away from her off fore and she has a terrible abscess and as such the vet believes she will not likely not recover, she was not x-rayed on Monday but vet suspects pedal bone is about to penetrate. She is not insured either as she was a project that ended up staying, frustratingly I was planning to arrange insurance for her and as such I am not sure I would have the budget to put her through very intense treatment that she would now require given the significance of her rotation. In addition, she is in a lot of pain and her heart rate is high, suggesting she isn't really coping. The thought of her being cooped up for several more months with no guarantees is an uncomfortable one with me. I think even with a second opinion to PTS is the kindest thing at this stage.
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Laminitis is so intensely painful for the horse that even if recovery were possible, putting them through it often isn't humane, and that's even without considering the mental effects of very prolonged box rest.
Never feel bad for ending an animal's pain.

Have been thinking of you and your horse & will continue to keep you in my thoughts. All the best 💖
 
For what it’s worth, recalling back to the time my horse had laminitis, I’m sure my vet said to me at each visit ‘I’ll need to see him again in a week’ or 2 weeks or whatever duration it was. Surely with such a serious problem the vet should have had some form of structure in place as to when and what would be re-assessed. We even had xrays and a professional farrier booked up in advance.
 
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