Wwyd - vets assessment of riding

B

Blythe Spirit

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 November 2012
Messages
576
Location
probably getting mucky somewhere
Visit site
Sorry this is long...

Three weeks before xmas my mare's canter work and jumping suddenly started to go down hill - i had owned her for a year and until then her schooling had been progressing well month on month. she was working prelim / novice level and scoring high 70's prelim with the odd low 80. After a fortnight her stifles started locking bably so vet has a look. Diagnoses mystery pain in hamstrings and carts her off to horespital for 3 week intensive treatment. Home again for 2 more weeks of ground work he pronounces her sound and tells me to go on with schooling so after a few very easy sessions i get back to the training. Ok for a couple of days then it strarts to go wrong again. Canter disunited, bucking when sent forward or asked to work round and light (none of this behaviour she has shown previous to this issue) . So vet back out he watched me ride for half an hour and said she was fine but i needed to get professional help with my riding if i could not keep her head down through canter trans etc. Thing is i do have lessons and my instructor an experienced eventer thinks horse is not right. I am by no means a bad rider either i have my stage 3, and have trained 3 other horses of varying type to elementry level. Somone v experienced said of my riding they woulnd mistake me for a professional but i was tallented for a hobby rider. So i cant be too bad i ride a lot of horses (do lots of lessons at local equestrian center on their horses) and 90 percent of them i can get a sweet tune from in wtc.

So how far would you trust a vets assesment of your riding or your instructors feeling something is wrong?

Where next more lessons or a second opinion or both?

Sorry so long
 
That seems a very odd thing for the vet to say. I would say let the vet tell you if your horse is sound and let your instructor tell you if you are riding ok.

I dont think its very surprising that a horse can be sound with no rider and not when ridden, even with a brilliant rider - after all, you weigh what you weigh and that will be adding a load to the horse's joints.

Why not ask your instructor to ride and see if the horse goes the same as when you do? And get another vet out to look at the horse properly!
 
Mystery pain in hamstrings???? why 3 weeks in being treated if no proper diagnosis, that sounds like a job for a physio rather than vet, as for the suggestion it is your riding causing the problem it may well worse when ridden but sounds more that he has no idea what is wrong and is not wanting to admit this, she needs referring for a proper diagnosis.
 
You could do with a vet that rides, where are you based. Second opinion needed I think.

My vet rode my mare recently and asked me if I had noticed the mare strikes the ground harder with one front foot. I hadn't and although not lame it has been noted.

I hope you can sort your horse out.
 
It does annoy me when bets make comments like this. Even more so when they have never actually seen owner ride!!!!

Twice over the years this has happened to me. First vet said horse wouldn't go forward be cause he needed a more experienced rider. He hadn't seen me ride and I'm pretty knowledgeable so could not have based it on that either
Made him eat his words when later horse tested positive for epsm!!

Second time. New horse was bucking and not wanting to go forward different Vet told me to take him for lessons to the Olympic rider I had bought him from. I waited until the next week as he went on holiday and had him scoped for ulcers. Grade 3 !!!!

So just shows how wrong they can be!
 
Hmmm, don't know about your vet, but do know far more than I ever wanted to about partially fixating patella's aka. sticky stifle or locking stifle.

Shows up as a low grade lameness or uneveness behind most of the time to varying degrees. They generally drag the toe of the affected leg, very easy to see if you ride barefoot (squares the toe) or on a firm/soft surface such as wet sand. There are degrees of locking the stifle and mine have never ended up with the leg stuck out behind, but when they have partially locked it up it is very obviously "not right" when you look at the joint and they are obviously lame.

IME if they are lame, then an extended period of rest (several months) is needed before they come right again - mine live out, so have not ever stabled them. As to the tight hamstrings, this is interesting. I have two horse that suffer from sticky stifle (thanks to their mutual sire) and one of them very definatetly gets very tight through the hamstrings. You can see it in how she moves - she just looks very stiff. I have a lot of success using Bowen to treat the hamstrings, but of course it dos'nt help with the stifles which are a mechanical problem.

Are as far as ongoing soundness and riding goes, once again it depends. My gelding I retired from endurance in 2010 and he is enjoying a second career as a dressage horse and is still going strong at 15. He has only had one bought of extended lameness (10 months off) and that was after playing race horses on the beach, so I don't gallop him any more.

My mare is more problematic. I retired her from endurance (six months out), and went to competitive trail riding (not faster than 12 km/hour and 40 km rides), but even that has proved to be too much for her. She is turned out now and I will try again with shorter rides next season (again six months out) and see how she goes.

Hope that helps and maybe answers some questions for you.
 
Last edited:
NZJenny said:
Hmmm, don't know about your vet, but do know far more than I ever wanted to about partially fixating patella's aka. sticky stifle or locking stifle.

Shows up as a low grade lameness or uneveness behind most of the time to varying degrees. They generally drag the toe of the affected leg, very easy to see if you ride barefoot (squares the toe) or on a firm/soft surface such as wet sand. There are degrees of locking the stifle and mine have never ended up with the leg stuck out behind, but when they have partially locked it up it is very obviously "not right" when you look at the joint and they are obviously lame.

IME if they are lame, then an extended period of rest (several months) is needed before they come right again - mine live out, so have not ever stabled them. As to the tight hamstrings, this is interesting. I have two horse that suffer from sticky stifle (thanks to their mutual sire) and one of them very definatetly gets very tight through the hamstrings. You can see it in how she moves - she just looks very stiff. I have a lot of success using Bowen to treat the hamstrings, but of course it dos'nt help with the stifles which are a mechanical problem.

Are as far as ongoing soundness and riding goes, once again it depends. My gelding I retired from endurance in 2010 and he is enjoying a second career as a dressage horse and is still going strong at 15. He has only had one bought of extended lameness (10 months off) and that was after playing race horses on the beach, so I don't gallop him any more.

My mare is more problematic. I retired her from endurance (six months out), and went to competitive trail riding (not faster than 12 km/hour and 40 km rides), but even that has proved to be too much for her. She is turned out now and I will try again with shorter rides next season (again six months out) and see how she goes.

Hope that helps and maybe answers some questions for you.
Click to expand...
.


Thanks for shareing - very intetesting - mine seems to lock only very mildly in general. Only saw it at rest in stable never seemed to affect paces and she does not drop toes. but when hamstrings injured they were locking when vet palpated hamstrings and badly when first walking aftet rest. Mine are out 12 hrs a day
 
Your vet sounds clueless and arrogant IMO.

I wouldn't faff about with physios and 'back people,' I'd get a different bet and do some proper investigations, including x rays, and find out what you're actually dealing with.
 
If you're not happy get a second opinion- initially another vet, ideally with a riding nurse so they can get an unbiased opinion.
 
Getting a ACPAT trained physio is such a situation is not faffing .
Physios are trained to look for different things to vets and are the only people who are qualified to look at riders and what physically they are doing , they have a completely different slant on it to a good trainer who Is the only other person who is trained to do this .
I wouls however not get any other sort of back quack to a situation like this that would be faffing .
Idealy you would get a vet and a ACPAT physio to work up the horse together .
 
Goldenstar said:
Getting a ACPAT trained physio is such a situation is not faffing .
Physios are trained to look for different things to vets and are the only people who are qualified to look at riders and what physically they are doing , they have a completely different slant on it to a good trainer who Is the only other person who is trained to do this .
I wouls however not get any other sort of back quack to a situation like this that would be faffing .
Idealy you would get a vet and a ACPAT physio to work up the horse together .
Click to expand...
ACPAT pysios definitely NOT faffing.I would also add the ACPAT chiropracters are not faffing either.Osteopaths are very good too.
 
I would get a second opinion from a very experienced vet. What treatment did you vet do during the three weeks? What for? Locking stiffles can be common in young horses with immature muscles, or they can be evidence of more serious problems like stiffle OCD. Did you vet nerve block the hind legs (one at a time obviously!)?
 
Goldenstar said:
Getting a ACPAT trained physio is such a situation is not faffing .
Physios are trained to look for different things to vets and are the only people who are qualified to look at riders and what physically they are doing , they have a completely different slant on it to a good trainer who Is the only other person who is trained to do this .
I wouls however not get any other sort of back quack to a situation like this that would be faffing .
Idealy you would get a vet and a ACPAT physio to work up the horse together .
Click to expand...

My point is that the OP needs a DIAGNOSIS, which no one but a vet can make. They can then look at treatment options, which may or may not include a physio.

For example, if the horse has sacroiliac problems or similar, only a vet and x ray can diagnose this.
Physio may help ease the symptoms but will not address the root of the problem, so yes, I would consider anything other than a full work up at this point to be faffing.
That does not mean I'm writing off the physio as useless, but that the horse needs to have its problems diagnosed correctly before treatment, and fwiw I would expect any physio worth their fee to want a diagnosis from the vet before they begin work.
 
I think if my vet had said that to me I would have experienced an awful realisation that he didn't know what he was talking about - and I would have felt embarrassed for him!
I wouldn't use him again.
 
When the vet first looked at the horse he saw her lunged - where the problem was quite apparent in a very 4 time canter with the left hind not being flexed correctly. He then 'poked' (there is probably a technical term) her hind legs and noted that pushing the hamstrings (which were very tight) caused her to clench her stifles hard and then get them locked. If he did this on both sides she almost went down. Whilst at the vets she had bute and box rest with 20 mins in hand walking a few times a day. Then some equine sports massage (his wife does this) then daily Inferential treatments on both hamstrings. Then gradual withdrawal of bute and increased exercise in hand, on the lunge and on the treadmill. Then when back at home she has 2 hours turn out am and 20 mins long lining pm alternating walk work with Walk trot canter sessions and some pole work (though less than prescribed as I am limited to working her in a not every well lit areana at night) . Then back on board he said to ride her every day (she was fit previous to the issues) in walk trot and canter and hill work when I could hack out (Small issue being that the nearest hill is 3 miles out!) still aside from the hill work I have followed his instruction to the letter.

No x-rays or nerve blocks were done. On his latest assessment he just had me ride round in WTC and sometimes giving me some advice eg 'don't let her get above the bit' and 'she is just trying you on' and 'she's evading' and then he concluded after 40 mins during which she got worse and worse that she was completely sound being a 'mare' and i was just riding ineffectively when I protested that she had been nice to ride before this issue he said 'well even a top dressage horse when ridden poorly will feel like a donkey even when its perfectly sound'.
 
Blythe Spirit said:
When the vet first looked at the horse he saw her lunged - where the problem was quite apparent in a very 4 time canter with the left hind not being flexed correctly. He then 'poked' (there is probably a technical term) her hind legs and noted that pushing the hamstrings (which were very tight) caused her to clench her stifles hard and then get them locked. If he did this on both sides she almost went down. Whilst at the vets she had bute and box rest with 20 mins in hand walking a few times a day. Then some equine sports massage (his wife does this) then daily Inferential treatments on both hamstrings. Then gradual withdrawal of bute and increased exercise in hand, on the lunge and on the treadmill. Then when back at home she has 2 hours turn out am and 20 mins long lining pm alternating walk work with Walk trot canter sessions and some pole work (though less than prescribed as I am limited to working her in a not every well lit areana at night) . Then back on board he said to ride her every day (she was fit previous to the issues) in walk trot and canter and hill work when I could hack out (Small issue being that the nearest hill is 3 miles out!) still aside from the hill work I have followed his instruction to the letter.

No x-rays or nerve blocks were done. On his latest assessment he just had me ride round in WTC and sometimes giving me some advice eg 'don't let her get above the bit' and 'she is just trying you on' and 'she's evading' and then he concluded after 40 mins during which she got worse and worse that she was completely sound being a 'mare' and i was just riding ineffectively when I protested that she had been nice to ride before this issue he said 'well even a top dressage horse when ridden poorly will feel like a donkey even when its perfectly sound'.
Click to expand...

:eek3: :eek3:

Is he even qualified!?
I'm afraid I wouldn't even pick up the phone to this joker again. I can't even begin to start listing the things wrong here.
Get a lameness work up from a good vet - what area are you in?
 
Midlands area - actually this practice and vet does I think have quite a good rep! when I moved to the area I asked loads of folks for the recs and these guys came out on top! but perhaps for the wrong reasons! Any recs in the shipston/stratford upon avon area would be helpful
 
I've PM'd you. Bourton Vale wouldn't be a million miles from you, I'm afraid I don't know who is out the other side of Stratford though. I have used Jess from Woodlands in Cheltenham who is very good and practical and then will give you a referral straight away to a big equine hospital of your choice. But again, they are probably a bit out of area for you.

3 Counties are also good I believe but I think so much about vets is personal preference - although doesn't sound like you're getting great service at the moment!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top