WWYD with this "pity buy" horse

Irish gal said:
You never made it clear you were were referring to 'backyard breeders', which of course the majority of breeders are not.

The greens and wastelands of England have plenty of black and white types also breeding indiscriminately - so I really don't see how that's relevant. This difference is that in addition to the cobs we also breed some of the word's greatest racehorses and sport horses.

Have you ever stopped to wonder where British teams might have been without Irish horses to ride?? Milton for instance - out of an Irish draught mare and Zara Phillips High Kingdom that landed a silver medal at the Olympics.

You may have a problem with Irish bred horses but luckily the chef d'equipes of your national teams don't. And why would they - the Irish Sport Horse Studbook was once again crowned as the World Breeding Federation for Sport Horses (WBFSH) leading Eventing Studbook in the world for 2016. Since the WBFSH rankings were established in 1994, the Irish Sport Horse Studbook has won the coveted Eventing Studbook rankings for 21 of the last 23 years. In other words if you want a top event horse or even a nice amateur mount there is no place better in the world to source one than here.
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I just had to comment on you claiming Milton as Irish bred, he was not out of an Irish Draught mare, Aston Answer, his dam, was a pba, she had a dash of Irish blood but was in the main tb/ arab, there are many many top horse that have been bred in Ireland but Milton was bred and produced over here.
 
be positive said:
I just had to comment on you claiming Milton as Irish bred, he was not out of an Irish Draught mare, Aston Answer, his dam, was a pba, she had a dash of Irish blood but was in the main tb/ arab, there are many many top horse that have been bred in Ireland but Milton was bred and produced over here.[/QUOTE

I said his dam was Irish bred and she was. I didn't realise she was by a part Arab, but her dam was a full ID - making her a half ID so a little more than a dash I'm afraid. I never said he was bred in Ireland btw...
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Irish gal said:
be positive said:
I just had to comment on you claiming Milton as Irish bred, he was not out of an Irish Draught mare, Aston Answer, his dam, was a pba, she had a dash of Irish blood but was in the main tb/ arab, there are many many top horse that have been bred in Ireland but Milton was bred and produced over here.[/QUOTE

I said his dam was Irish bred and she was. I didn't realise she was by a part Arab, but her dam was a full ID - making her a half ID so a little more than a dash I'm afraid. I never said he was bred in Ireland btw...
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His dam was not bred in Ireland according to this http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10318642 she was bred by her owner.
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be positive said:
Irish gal said:
His dam was not bred in Ireland according to this http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10318642 she was bred by her owner.
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She might have been bred by her owner but he bred her out of an Irish horse in the same way that members here breeding Connemaras and draughts are still breeding Irish horses. Just like the world's best Connemara jumping stallion stood in France - Dexter Leam Pondi was owned by French people and stood in France that doesn't make him French!

If you're breeding race horses or Connemaras or draughts, it doesn't really matter. Why are all those breeders coming here to source their foundation mares? Ever ponder that question?

For instance lots of posters here, if they had deep enough pockets, would be heading to the Billy Stud for a new mount - a nice British sport horse. But who are those horses - what is really their breed?

The foundation mares on which the Billy Stud has built an empire are Irish. As their website explains:

"With William’s (Funnell's) talent as a jockey and Donal’s (Barnwell) knowledge and eye for a horse, led them to some successful purchases, one of them being a mare called Tatum.

Little did they realize at the time that Tatum would go on to become the foundation mare of the Billy Stud. Tatum was an Irish bred mare Clover hill/ Sky Boy. From the offset William & Donal thought that by crossing great Irish blood lines with some top European stallions they had the potential to produce some fantastic sport horses for both Showjumping and Eventing."

So that's where the Billy Stud comes from. And fair play to them, exploiting an age old formula by breeding from good Irish mares...

We've no problem with Olympic horses for other countries coming from Irish mares or stallions - it's not surprising given that we have a horse culture going back millennia. But please have the grace to credit where those horses come from!
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if i was looking to breed from a tb it would be essential to introduce some arab blood, this is what i have done.

a lot of irish horses have vague pedigrees, and chunks missing in the dam line especially, so you could be breeding from anything with some of them

also a lot of people are saying the use of warmbloods is leading away from tradional formulas, the same is said in france, ie the selle francais is no more!.
 
i was quoting comments made to me by owner of the chef de race stallion selle francais!

i notice no comment was made regarding the vague- ness of some irish horses pedigrees!
 
And just what is the point you're making Tristar. Yes some, a small minority, of passports are missing bits of the damline. Most horses being bred here today are properly passported with full damlines.

While this seems to present some insurmountable problem in your mind, you are in the minority. Some of the best UK breeding studs are based on Irish mares as demonstrated up thread about the Billy Stud. And a small number of gaps in passports has not prevented the Irish Stud Book from being the world's best virtually every year of the last 25 for producing top eventers.

Skilled horse people are discerning enough to appraise a mare with no known breeding to decide whether on her own proven merits she's worth breeding from.

Here's an example. A local man produced the top 1.60m international show jumper Limestone Grey and he was sold to a big show jumping outfit on the continent. The horse is now worth €10 million. He has no recorded damline. Should that horse not have been bred?

http://www.horsetelex.nl/horses/pedigree/1676788

The majority of people on this forum have Irish bred horses. Take a look at the adverts to the side and most are Irish. I find it bizarre that while people base their hobby and great passion around Irish horses, many seem to have great difficulty in celebrating the success of the breed.
 
I dont know that Irish Horses pedigrees are anymore vague than UK ones. The continental studbooks have been going for longer than either UK or Ireland, and is much more state controlled. Do we here want to go the same regimented route as the continentals?? I for one dont. It is the unpredictability of buying Irish or UK that makes it fun- an ISH can be 7/8 TB, IC X Con or a pure ID !!! A lot of warmbloods all look and perform the same- I worked for a chap who drove a team of Holsteins, he had 14 altogether and any 4 could be used and make a complete matching team of bays. If it wasnt for the brands it would have been almost impossible to differentiate between them.
Look how boring show jumping is now without all the different types- Stroller, Ryans Son, Marius, Vibart ...... all brilliant, and all completely different.
 
we are talking here about breeding, i want a mare i like to look at AND has many generations of authenticated breeding, to determine the possible outcome.

how many times have we heard on here about the breeding of horses from unknown backgrounds not being a good idea
 
I think years ago a lot more people understood what made a 'good mare'.

I've a sports horse with a very unflashy mother, but when you look at the offspring they are all doing showjumping and eventing. So he obviously came from a hobby breeder who had a good mare that he put to quality named stallions and he was rewarded with very talented useful offspring. They won't get to the olympics, but they are all out happily jumping 1 20 and eventing at medium level. But he obviously understood the strengths and weaknesses of the mare and bred accordingly. I don't think he just got a random mare and decided to breed her just to give her a job. There are some cracking mare who don't have flashy names or breeding, but they are very few and far between and it takes an experienced breeder to bring out the best in them.
 
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