WWYD ?

Dougal9 said:
Hay only - I wish, even on full livery our hay isn't adlib and I've just found out we have to pay extra during the winter for more hay to cover the lack of grazing !!
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Ad lib forage is essential to prevent the ulcers and it may be the lack of it that has caused them, I am a YO and would be ensuring that your horse had ad lib, my horses do anyway, and that he had as long out every day as possible, they are not looking after his welfare in the optimum way by restricting hay and not turning out after exercise, you need to be more forceful otherwise the ulcers may come back and it also explains why he is fresh if he is not getting out as much as possible, while the weather is dry it is the perfect time to keep them out.
 
be positive said:
Ad lib forage is essential to prevent the ulcers and it may be the lack of it that has caused them, I am a YO and would be ensuring that your horse had ad lib, my horses do anyway, and that he had as long out every day as possible, they are not looking after his welfare in the optimum way by restricting hay and not turning out after exercise, you need to be more forceful otherwise the ulcers may come back and it also explains why he is fresh if he is not getting out as much as possible, while the weather is dry it is the perfect time to keep them out.
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Oh I have tried, even told them that the vet advised it which is true - but they just won't do it as YO wants to save her fields for the winter - he is on individual turn out btw but with other horses next to him so he's not on his own. So what can I do - other than move yards, which with his ulcers is also risky but I will talk to my vet first about how to handle the move or even if I need to wait a couple of months - but stuck between rock and hard place comes to mind ? This is one of the reasons I have started looking around at other yards and as well as wanting to see him I go up every day to check he has hay something I feel I have to do now.
 
Dougal9 said:
Oh I have tried, even told them that the vet advised it which is true - but they just won't do it as YO wants to save her fields for the winter - he is on individual turn out btw but with other horses next to him so he's not on his own. So what can I do - other than move yards, which with his ulcers is also risky but I will talk to my vet first about how to handle the move or even if I need to wait a couple of months - but stuck between rock and hard place comes to mind ? This is one of the reasons I have started looking around at other yards and as well as wanting to see him I go up every day to check he has hay something I feel I have to do now.
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The trust you had in the yard is going now so looking elsewhere is probably a good idea, if the YO wants to keep you as a client she should be taking extra care to ensure your horse does get what he requires, if you find somewhere that really will work with you to do what the horse needs then a move should cause no problem, if it involves being isolated and not turned out for a period then it may not be the best thing, so it depends on the rules of the new yard as they all vary.

You certainly should not have to go every day to check whether a full livery gets sufficient hay.
 
be positive said:
The trust you had in the yard is going now so looking elsewhere is probably a good idea, if the YO wants to keep you as a client she should be taking extra care to ensure your horse does get what he requires, if you find somewhere that really will work with you to do what the horse needs then a move should cause no problem, if it involves being isolated and not turned out for a period then it may not be the best thing, so it depends on the rules of the new yard as they all vary.

You certainly should not have to go every day to check whether a full livery gets sufficient hay.
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Its incredibly frustrating as this is the 2nd yard since March although we were not at the first one for very long. I don't think I'm high maintenance and I'm more than willing to pay (at the minute approx 800 pcm) I just need somewhere that will really care for my horse's needs (he's a good doer despite his ulcers and very easy to deal with on the ground) and be supportive towards me. I really thought this was the place for us, started out brilliantly but wow this last month or so its been a shock to the sysem
 
Full livery with schooling must be very expensive, I would be giving them notice and leave asap. Restricting food and grazing is outrageous, and I would not want a horse lunged in order to make him less fresh, there should be no need to do so.
A large bale of hay costs about £30.00: when I had a large pony I paid £5.00 a week to share a bale between two owners, they horses all had access to grazing, sometimes with hay nets and daytime turnout in winter. His short feed cost £1.50 per day included minerals with magox at 75p per day. Shavings were £1.00 a week to maintain, £50 to start, and allowing a few for extras.
Re schooling, this should have been done to keep him interested and balanced, but not to work him to peak fitness.
 
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I'd be looking at moving - £800 a month for limited turnout and hay?! Having not long moved from a yard where the grazing wasn't great and hay was weighed (her night hay net would be empty by the time I got there at 7pm & no further hay/feed until breakfast at 9am) to one where there is a round bale in the field at all times and a stuffed-full hay rack overnight, I'm seeing a different horse.
 
i would wait till i was able and better and get the horse out of there to somewhere you can control the feeding and management yourself in fact control every movement your horse makes.

then you can spend time with it, walk it inhand, settle its stomach on new food and when and only when you are ready, get used to lunging it with the tack on, even longreining if you can, and see this as steps towards forming a relationship with the horse and one day when you are ready,run through your routine and then ride your horse, spend lot of time with the horse and get to know him, and him you.

don`t look back, the horse world is full of **** don`t let them rob of a great opportunity, they are undermining your self confidence, don`t let them steal your horse, your confidence, your happiness, i you want this horse cut through the **** blast them out of the water and hopefully ride off into the sunset on YOUR horse!
 
tristar said:
i would wait till i was able and better and get the horse out of there to somewhere you can control the feeding and management yourself in fact control every movement your horse makes.

then you can spend time with it, walk it inhand, settle its stomach on new food and when and only when you are ready, get used to lunging it with the tack on, even longreining if you can, and see this as steps towards forming a relationship with the horse and one day when you are ready,run through your routine and then ride your horse, spend lot of time with the horse and get to know him, and him you.

don`t look back, the horse world is full of **** don`t let them rob of a great opportunity, they are undermining your self confidence, don`t let them steal your horse, your confidence, your happiness, i you want this horse cut through the **** blast them out of the water and hopefully ride off into the sunset on YOUR horse!
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True fighting talk as my old mum used to say god bless her. Love it :)
 
ycbm said:
Are they angling to buy him?
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I thought this too.

Faracat said:
He might still be like this with you. My chestnut mare is very different depending on who is riding her.
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Yep - some horses really are one person horses. He will probably be fine when you get back on. I will also say some people are really good at winding horses up as they find it "funny"...

Dougal9 said:
Hay only - I wish, even on full livery our hay isn't adlib and I've just found out we have to pay extra during the winter for more hay to cover the lack of grazing !!
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Ulcers could be back if they are restricting turnout and hay.

Dougal9 said:
The first thing I asked was that he be turned out for as long as possible, especially with the days being so nice and sunny. However, even if he is only schooled/hacked at say 11.00 he is put back in his stable. I have asked politely but firmly that because of his ulcers could he be turned back out after being worked but I was told no by the YO as she believes that he will be fine in his stable with some hay !! BTW I have been up there to find that there is no hay in his stable - the stock reply has always been ' Oh he must have just finished it ' .....
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I'd be going nuts. My own mare has digestion issues (not ulcers) that require ad lib hay. I would be going ballistic if I paid circa £800 and they can't even ensure my horses basic need for ad lib hay wasn't adhered to.

My next question is, are they actually turning him out? If he is being ridden mid morning I'd bet my bottom dollar that they just leave him in for the day then wonder why he is a bit hyper..

Yes moving is risky with his ulcers, but in my eyes he is at just as much risk from restricted turnout and hay so between yourself and your vet you need to weigh up these risks. I'd personally just move and deal with the ulcers at a yard with proper turnout and ad lib hay. Turn him away, he won't care (horses don't know the meaning of the words "wasted" and "potential"), take the pressue off yourself and just bring him back into work with some hacking when your shoulder is sorted :)
 
I would move him, then put him on a course of ulcer stuff the day he goes to the new yard. Not ad lib hay is ridiculous, especially with what you are paying, unless you are in central London. I get that you are paying for exercise in there, too. Ad lib hay in a trickle net will not break the YO's bank and without it his health really is at risk.
 
Definitely agree with the others - doesn't sound like a good yard setup and sounds like they're taking the P a bit.

If you want him to be worked could you get someone else to work him for you? I don't see the need to be lunging him before every session! If you haven't sat on him recently then how do they know what you can handle? A ridiculous thing to say to someone about their horse, if you'd ridden him and he'd been dangerous with you throwing rears and bucks and they were genuinely concerned for you safety then fair enough. But otherwise they should not be commenting.

You sound like you really love your horse so don't let these people knock your confidence and make you feel bad. They don't sound like they're managing your horse at all and I would be demanded more turn out and definitely making sure he has enough hay!! Stress that his ulcers could come back from poor management, do they want to be responsible for that?

When you're well then I would look at moving yards to somewhere more supportive and look for a new trainer when you can ride. There is no harm in turning him away for a month if that's what you want to do. Really, horses don't care about being ridden. You can then tell your yard to turn him out in the morning, no need to ride, and bring him in late afternoon.
 
£800 for hardly any turnout, too little hay and very short exercise sessions? You could have him on schooling livery for less than that. If he were mine I'd be out of there pronto.
 
is there any way you would be able to go and watch them schooling 'unannounced'?
I would question how well they are schooling him, and if they are really schooling him or just lunging him and doing say, 20 mins of W/T/C and calling that exercise.

I have a horse who has 2 personalities, he can get quite 'hot' during winter and can be quite high energy and excitable - he has limited turnout through winter and the cold weather also seems to make him a bit sharper. He is totally manageable though, you just need to make sure he can do something to get him thinking and not allow him to get bored - once he is bored the energy is expressed in less favourable ways.

You don't know how he is behaving until you see him being ridden - he could suddenly be spooky or 'too much' for you because he isn't being ridden in such a way he has to think about what he's doing, and it is why hacking he is a bit spooky because he's now out and looking at things that are 'exciting'. Bucking on the lunge also wouldn't concern me, when mine is lunged, he has his buck when asked to canter and his moment of 'whoo energy!' and then once he has calmed down he lunges fine.
I personally don't like lunging to get energy off before you ride - mine is meant to be lunged before you ride if it's very cold, or given a long warm up, as he is starting to look a bit stiff in a back leg, and even then he is not meant to be going for a hooly on the lunge. I also think only lunging a horse to get energy off them encourages bad habits on the lunge - I know with my boy to lunge he used to be a nightmare as he seemed to think he had to go out, run as fast as he could round a circle, and when he was asked to walk or move in, he would change the rein himself and repeat.

Honestly, I think the yard you're at are taking the P from you, and you're better to look elsewhere!

Would you be able to find a sharer instead of paying a yard to school? A sharer may also help take a bit of the workload off once you've been cleared to ride and if you could find a sharer who could be down during the day, they could always check he has hay when he needs it?

I would have concerns as to what exactly they are doing with this horse when they school him, and why they say he's now too much for you. It also sounds like this yard doesn't suit either of you when it comes to his management and care. Hope the new yards you are looking at suit much better :)
 
I spoke to the trainer I was working with before he had the ulcers and I became unable to ride, and she said that I need to go with how I feel about him. I said I couldn't wait to get back and ride again - she said I'd just answered my own question :) Its been a really rough start to horse ownership for me, especially a first horse and I don't need to be in a place that is so negative. I need someone to say, hey he's a little sharp at the minute but when your'e ready to ride again we'll help you get back to where you were, or with some lessons (which is a no brainer to be honest) you'll be fine - that would have been a much better and tactful way of handling the situation with a Client.
 
Dougal9 said:
I spoke to the trainer I was working with before he had the ulcers and I became unable to ride, and she said that I need to go with how I feel about him. I said I couldn't wait to get back and ride again - she said I'd just answered my own question :) Its been a really rough start to horse ownership for me, especially a first horse and I don't need to be in a place that is so negative. I need someone to say, hey he's a little sharp at the minute but when your'e ready to ride again we'll help you get back to where you were, or with some lessons (which is a no brainer to be honest) you'll be fine - that would have been a much better and tactful way of handling the situation with a Client.
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Exactly! Yes some horses do get a bit sharper in winter because it's a bit colder, they are in more and getting feed etc.

I do know a horse who got very strong and tankey if he was hungry! He wasn't hugely food orientated but if she rode straight off a winter field he was a daemon. Solved by allowing him half an hour to eat from a haynet before ridden work whilst she was faffing/grooming/having a brew.

If he is ulcer prone, on restricted turnout and not being given enough hay I would question if this is the same scenario with your boy.
 
good luck with that yard next week, when you get sorted try to just chill and try not to stress and rush into doing things, a few weeks stepping back will be good for you and the horse.

after a horse has been in i always try to turn out for a few hours or/and lunge, this is`nt just so he can jump about but to start the warming up process, i find it really settles them before riding, and softens the back.

looking forward to reading future posts when you get sorted
 
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